My ex-WS had an affair and the OW got pregnant. He should have used condoms (STDs!as well as pregnancy) but she said she was on birth control pills. Who knows?? Anyhow, he told her that he didn't want to raise any more children and offered to pay for an abortion. Now, I'm NOT looking for a discussion on the morality or immorality of abortion. Abortion is a legal choice. It was one that my ex-WS and I made 7 years ago when I got pregnant after failed birth control. Neither of us wanted to raise anymore children (each of us had two children from a previous marriage). He was just new into his substance abuse/alcoholic recovery, and I was being treated for major depression (not very successfully at that time. None of the medications were working right.) The OW wanted to continue with the pregnancy and keep the child. She was 21 years old, had no full time job, nowhere consistant to live and was a recovering alcoholic. (She'd already gotten pregnant at age 18 and given up that child for adoption.) She continued with the pregnancy and had the baby. He was born with Down Syndrome.
My ex-WS and I have been working on reconciliation. It really grinds me that he/we will have to support this child, possibly lifelong, when he didn't want the child in the first place. I know he should have kept his unit in his drawers. But, doggone-it, he had no legal say over ending the pregnancy or continuing it. He's been supporting her and the baby for the past 11 months. She still isn't working full time and thinks that the world "owes her" due to her abusive childhood. Gr-r-r-r! Maybe the mother of the child should have to accept full financial responsibility for the child if she decides to keep it against the father's desire. I know I'm living in fantasy land!!! Also, I find it difficult to accept that these OW can have affairs with married men, but don't think abortion is morally right. Just needed to vent!

OH GIRL! I said I wasn't going to post here anymore but I could have written that same post! Just venting here too. But my OW refused to get an abortion for religious issues but then said sleeping with a MM was not committing adultery and not a sin in her book! People use religion we it fits their purpose! Also OW now tells everyone that she didn't think she could get pregnant b/c she had a miscarriage in the past, although she already had a son (who doesn't see his father either) before my xUH came along. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if you produced one child you could possibly produce another one (I have one friend who had 4 miscarriages and is now the mother of 2). He thought women were responsible for birth control (since I was) and lets face it he should be right. Of course there was no condom machine in the bathroom where he and OW worked so it would have been inconvenient to them to get one. At one point she had him convinced she could not get pregnant but then talked about going on the pill? Contraction!!! Since WOMEN are giving the ultimate power of CHOICE it should be OUR responsibility for BIRTH CONTROL. I'm sorry if this will offend some one but I don't believe in UNPLANNED pregnancy, you KNOW what makes a baby and how to prevent it. I used TWO forms of birth control when I was not on the pill, so I don't buy the condom breaking theory, sorry. If someone gets pregnant after using two forms of control or NEVER missed a pill to ME that is divine intervention and I have never heard of someone using 2 reliable forms of control or took the pill correctly. Lets face it a WOMAN who says "but I was on the pill" probably missed one or two during the month, it happens and it was HER responsibility to take the pill. Being the scorn wife who isn't happy to see $300 a month go to that b^tch who doesn't even spend it on the child I want to agree with you about the money part BUT I think of ALL the children out there NOW who are poor and need support. I think of myself who got pregnant (deliberately) after talking with UH about going off the pill together and starting a family. I believed I was in happy, normal marriage when I got pregnant, NOT some sick Jerry Springer show that my life has turned out to be. Does my son NOT deserve the support of the Father who screwed up his world? I say by letting men off financially we give up the ONLY way we can MAKE them responsible for the children the produced and maybe they would start thinking about protecting themselves. We all know SOME women use getting pregnant as a trap for men. IT IS WRONG!! Men (and women) can leave, give up custody whatever but I BELIEVE for the CHILD'S benefit that BOTH should held financially responsible but you should NEVER try to make someone be a parent to a child they didn't want to have! It takes more than an egg or sperm or money to make a loving parent! I think that the money provided should be for the CHILD not for the parent! I believe that we should be able to have a way to pay directly to daycare, schools, sports teams, clothing stores and even grocery cards so that you KNOW the money is somehow benefiting the CHILD'S life. I want nothing to do with my OC but she does deserve to have a happy healthy life and unfortunately it takes money to provide it.

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Jtigger ]</small>

Why were my posts deleted? I did not flame anyone. I just do not think innocent children should be punished for the actions of their parents. I guess whoever deleted my posts didn't agree. How sad.

Hmmm... Perhaps it was this comment you made to a BS over on Just Found Out:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>kng-there is no "challenge" in getting a married man. They are easy pickings if one so desires to date one. I have had more married men hit on me than single ones. Not that I take them up on it, but I could have several different dates a week if I wanted to date married men. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's the original thread for those interested:
Woman who have an Affair with Married Men?

Or, perhaps maybe the moderators are just doing their job of protecting the most vulnerable BSs from OW venom or naivete or just plain ignorance. I could be wrong, but that's just my best guess...

<small>[ June 07, 2003, 03:33 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

One post has nothing to do with the other. I was not justifing having a child during an A. But the OC is innocent in all this and needs to be taken care of emotionally and financially. They did not ask to be born into this mess.

This board is to help repair damage that A's create in a M. Granted, the A isn't what caused all the damage, but it plays a very large part. As stated at the beginning of this forum, and in your agreement when you registered, it is a place to build/rebuild marriages. If you are here for or to help, then welcome. But, if you want to come here to lash out-and that is what you did in the posts that were deleted-at the BS's who are dealing with the very real pain that an innocent child has brought to many lives, then your posts can very well be deleted!

There are a few posters who could be "qualified" as OW, myself included, who came here for help, and have respected the pain that we, albeit indirectly, have caused the BS's on this board! I'm sure you know of the other boards that are for the OW, and that you can make your comments there, just as we would expect to be "monitored" if we went over there and lashed out at the OW/OC's there!

We don't like "board wars", at any of the sites, and it's been pretty quiet of late, and I'm sure EVERYONE would like it kept that way! So, if you have some advice as to how to repair this damage done to this M, then offer it, but otherwise, please keep your lashing out to the boards where it won't be deleted, if you get what I'm saying.

Respectfully,

Tigger

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wytchywoman:
<strong>One post has nothing to do with the other. I was not justifing having a child during an A. But the OC is innocent in all this and needs to be taken care of emotionally and financially. They did not ask to be born into this mess.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe one post has nothing to do with the other, but your position has a lot to do with everything.

Let's be reasonable, just because children are not asked to be born into adverse circumstances doesn't mean they will automatically get all the love and nurturing they deserve. All children are innocent. No child deserves to be born into circumstances where they are not loved and wanted for that matter--regardless of infidelity!

And if OPs and WSs really cared so much about innocent OCs needing so much emotional and financial security, they wouldn't be cheating in the first place and taking such big risks with the possibility of creating an innocent victim such as this.

I think your expectations are unreasonable. These OCs are born into adverse, abnormal circumstances. How can they possibly have normal, secure lives? It's impossible! And no matter how much we try to protect them, OCs must eventually resolve their own identity issues when/if the truth surfaces.

OP/WS getting involved in an EMR is not directly related to their beliefs about children needing emotional and financial security. People who cheat love children. WS's often site their children as a major factor in staying to work on their marriage in the first place. I certainly had no plans to become a parent with xOM when I met him. I had no idea what to expect. I had no plan. I went with my feelings and that is all against my better judgement. It is that simple.

I'm not going to touch the --women own the responsibility for babies..just because we have a MAN made law that states it's our choice.
I've reconciled that people who truly believe it's all on us women, are people whom the birth of a child somehow didn't fit into their plans and inconvenienced their life. They themselves were powerless. I'm not unsympathetic but I'm in favor of the child all of the time no matter what. There are no mistakes in life imho.

a woman or man that strays from their mariage for the sake of an A may very well love children. BUT at the time of their selfish A they couldn't give a crap about even their own offspring. if they cared they would not go through with any form of physical affair. they would not risk the security a child feels for the sake of a roll in the hay no matter what en's are not being met. throughout my marriage i have been approached several times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and always thought of what i could lose and turned my back on jeopardizing my kids security.

The OC is the innocent victim of the Affair, so are the BS and the children of the marriage. That said, there are children born all over this world who are born into adverse circumstances. some are being born in Iraq now into all the turmoil there. Some are being born into the situation in Israel/Palestine.
However, the parents in this country have choices, that is NOT TO GET INVOLVED WITH ANOTHER PERSON IF YOU ARE MARRIED. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT GO GET INVOLVED WITH SOME ONE WHO IS MARRIED.
There was a time when society shunned women who got pregnant while not married. Today we embrace them, or society does. However that does not make it right. If you have sex you be prepared for the consequences of sex, STD'S and pregnancies. If you are not ready to cope with a pregnancy, then you should NOT have sex, especially with someone else who has a prior commitment.
It is another example of our selfish, "me me and only me" society. Grow up. Do we give our children candy everytime they ask? NO. So why should we have sex everytime we want it if the person we are contemplatin having sex with is having sex with someone else that they are supposed to have a commitment to.
If you feel pain for innocent children, then make sure you do not create children that are innocent and placed in a situation that is ultimately one of pain, an affair.
If women want to be responsible for their bodies then be responsible. Make sure you don't get pregnant with that innocent child. Practice abstinence until you have created a life that an innocent child will be welcomed into.
As a mother, if one of my chidren were involved in an affair, ...well it would not be pretty. If one of my daughters came home and told me she was pregnant by a married man, I would beat her for her stupidity and selfishness. Very few married men truly want their OW pregnant. They want "to have fun", we all know children are fun but they are also a lot of work.

Texasgirl

<small>[ June 18, 2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Texasgirl ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Texasgirl:
<strong> As a mother, if one of my chidren were involved in an affair, ...well it would not be pretty. If one of my daughters came home and told me she was pregnant by a married man, I would beat her for her stupidity and selfishness.
Texasgirl</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Texasgirl - I don't post here often, but this prompted me to write a response. I won't get into the obvious objections I have about the first part - other than it takes two to get pregnant, and while what you said certainly is valid, it should go for BOTH parties.
That aside, I had to tell my mother I was pregnant by a married man. It was one of the hardest things I'd ever done - my father had cheated on my her. She never judged me, the circumstances, or my child. She was there when my son was born, and was a very active participant in his life for the 2 short years that she had left after he was born. She even confessed to me that he was her favorite. She never ONCE called me stupid. She never ONCE called me selfish. Before she died, she spoke with my siblings and I each separately, and she made it clear that she was PROUD of me and most of the decisions that I'd made - having him being one of them. She told me that I was a great mother, and that I should be proud of myself for not taking the easy way out (be it abortion, adoption, whatever). Be careful of what you say, for you never ever know what will happen.

JW, I was and am still on a rant. Venting my frustrations. However, I would never literally beat my beautiful daughters, I love them more than life. But, having been on the other side of the affair, seen how the OW react to being left behind by the MM, it is not a morass of pain I want my dau involved with.
If she meets a man, who cannot give her his home phone, Can only see her at specified times and never on holidays, then if she is not smart enought to figure out he is not available, she's studpid. Or, if she meets a man who says what a horrible person his wife is, she doesn't meet his needs like he says she (my dau) will, then she is stupid. If you want a man, make sure he is available. If he isn't, then hard as it is, move on. I believer if your soulmate is out there, he won't be married.
If she were that stupid, then I would support her all the way, both financially and emotionally. Once the initialy shock is over, then there would be no recriminations, because I love her more than she apparantly loved herself to get into such a no win situation. I would love that child, and woe to the person who called a [censored] to my face.
But it does not make it something I want for my girls.
JW, I guess this sounds like I am judging you, it is not personal. From what I have seen you made a mistake and have dealt with and grown with it. You have moved on, not become too bitter with the MM you were involved with. You have a beautiful son who as a mother you are "in love" with. Mother's fall in love with their babies.
So don't take it personally. It was interesting, I got pregnant, surprise, while my H and I were in counseling, before I knew about the OW. When we went to the counselor and addressed our feelings, he asked me if I had planned it.
I told him I wasn't that unintellingent that I thought a baby would keep him from leaving. That child is the love of my love, mostly because all during the pregnancy I wasn't sure he would have his father. Because we still had not resloved our relationship. The OW got pregnant after he told her I was pregnant and he was seeing her for the last time. Irony, yet.

I know I have had 7 pregnancies, 5 children, the woman is more in the driver's seat when it comes to preventing pregnancies and the decisions afterward. The man has a responsibility, too, but the reality is they don't do it unless we make them. It is too easy to let them off the hook until we are pregnant. But that is the quagmire of discussion here. Everyone blames the OW for her pregnancy more than they blame the MM.
but in a marriage, the wife is blamed for getting pregnant if they had decided not to have anymore.

Love your son, make him a better man than his father, help him remember that when he makes a commitment to one woman he cannot commit to another until he is free to make that commitment.

TG

**JW, I guess this sounds like I am judging you, it is not personal. From what I have seen you made a mistake and have dealt with and grown with it. You have moved on, not become too bitter with the MM you were involved with. You have a beautiful son who as a mother you are "in love" with. Mother's fall in love with their babies.
So don't take it personally.***

I didn't. And I am in love with my son. HE is the love of my life.

**Everyone blames the OW for her pregnancy more than they blame the MM, but in a marriage, the wife is blamed for getting pregnant if they had decided not to have anymore.**

I disagree with both of those, but that's just my opinion.

**Love your son, make him a better man than his father, help him remember that when he makes a commitment to one woman he cannot commit to another until he is free to make that commitment**

I do love my son, I KNOW that he will be a much better man than his father, because if I teach him nothing else - it will be to respect women more than his father ever did. I'm not going to preach to him about commitment, or any of that - those are things that only an adult can make decisions on themselves. And if he ever chooses to make a bad decision, then he has to live with the consequences. I can offer my advice when it's asked for, and love him unconditionally. I can only hope that he's smart enough NOT to make a decision like that.

The thing I have learned over the years is there is what is and what should be. I mean, there is life in a perfect world and life that we really live.

In a perfect world, everyone would be happy. Situations that we brought us to this place would not happen. But life isn't perfect or fair and we have to learn to deal with what our lives hand us. We can play the blame game forever, but we have to finally reach a point where we need to get over it and just deal with it.

TG

Wouldn't it be great if the bs, oc and children of m could sit down and develop a poja for everyone to follow? Instead, someone usually ends up the unequivocal (sp?) loser: the oc who grows up w/o a father, the bs who loses her h to ow, or the children of m who lose their father.

On another note, can someone please tell me how to insert someone else's quote into your own post? Hello, I'm stephmac, and I'm message board illiterate.

<small>[ June 19, 2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: stephmac1974 ]</small>

Hello,

I just wanted to add this, I was at my family reuion and my aunt told me that she would never had a mistake. She knows how kids are concieve and always to precuation. She has no kids and never gotten pregant. She said woman need to think about the consequences when it comes to sex.

This was brought about because a girl had gotten pregnant by mistake. And she is very unstable and my cousin told me she can see her doing harm to her baby. She said it will be bettter she thought if the baby would never be born because she can see her doing something that might call the baby's death.

Dawn