Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on my diabolical situation.

Quick summary first.
We both "married for life", both very strong on this. Pursued our dream: Place in the country, large family, lifestyle etc. Had six kids, moved onto a small rural property in a relocated house ( doing it on the cheap ). Had two more kids, last of which was a bonus ( unplanned ), but she really IS a bonus.
Went through a bad patch with high work commitments etc and breastfeeding baby, lack of sleep etc, you know the drill.
WW confided in OM (Well off, selfish(surprised ? ), single, man, non-working because he doesn't need to ).
The rest is tragedy. WW told me of A 3wks after it started, said life was too hard, and she was leaving for good. ( Our baby was 1yr old ). Left on d-day Oct 2000. About a month later she got P.
Turned our world completely into confusion.

At this point I don't know if I did the right thing ( still don't know ). Only just found THIS site 2 weeks ago but had no one to talk to who has been there ( as far as A or OC goes ).

Somehow I think the "rules" may be a little different for a large family situation but would like to talk about this. Pop's I've seen your posts and you have a big family too so we might be able to talk about this.

Anyway, I decided 1) WW needs a break. Life is tough. Set her up in a flat for 3 months and take leave. 2) Continue to see her, even though OM sleeping with her, so once a week spent an evening trying to patch up M.( usually arguing ). My idea being that separation won't solve anything... also know how rejected she has been in the past, how bad this was for her. Figured that if I was not there for her, she might well not make it out of this mess.

I said, adopt OC out, OM should not be at the birth ( thief !). WW disagreed, would do neither.

We ( WW & I ) always worked closely together through birth of our kids... very special times. Through circumstances, I ended up driving her to the Hosp. ( much to OM's disgust ), prayed with her and left my darling to go through this ultimate intimacy with this undeserving destroyer of lives. It turned out that our midwife said he was the most useless male she had ever seen at supporting a woman through labour and childbirth. Wife called me in fearful voice, said that there was foetal distress and she would need a caeser. ( All of out kids were naturals, she has been FANTASTIC ). She was all gowned up and ready to go to theatre. I pleaded with God and He saved her. Miraculously she "got going" and Sam was born healthy and well ( no Caeser ).

She was an emotional mess ( so was I ) for a long time. The father wanted LOTS of involvement with the child so saw him daily. I got back to work, 8 kids are not cheap. WW would not come back, OM threatened to take OC if she came back to me. Also I'm a bit low on the learning curve in some areas and she said I "hadn't changed". But not very specific on what to change. Very painful, frustrating time. I had no idea what to do... was I "enabling" this affair by treating her kindly. ( e.g. I took the kids to see their new half brother, gave her some flowers ( wrestled with that decision )). But I figured that she'd be a head case soon if I wasn't there for her. Friends and family we're outraged at this shame and scandal. Lots of judgement - a lot of it from me too unfortunately.

I tried a Plan A but did it really poorly because I didn't have the strategy worked out. I figured a Plan B would hurt the kids too much and it's not their fault. ( I was doing most of the care for them but WW was also doing a lot ).

Fast forward to now: Two and a half years since d-day. WW can see a lot more through this selfish jerk (OM by the way) and has been let down, disrespected by him, but she seems to have some sense of loyalty to him. Doesn't think that NC is practical, feasible, fair since he lives 2 miles away. WW looks negatively at our lifestyle choices and feels I have caused her to lack opportunities. This may sound harsh, but it comes with the territory. Time to live it up when the kids have flown the nest. I feel I did my best for her within our means. Was her decision too.

I still love her, but she has changed a lot. Maybe I'm in love with the girl I married and she isn't there anymore.

To me, marriage is a covenant, not to be broken. I don't want a divorce but there is a lack of respect ( from WW & teenage kids ) that is hard to handle. One child age 16 lives with my W and has sided with her.

I have regarded the kids welfare as tops... perhaps this is not right... perhaps the survival of the M is tops. This is what I used to think but counsellors all said kids welfare is the most important thing. Anyway, I took counsellors advise and kids love me and I love them much... they know it and people say they are real good kids ( especially considering what they have been through ).

So now it's crunch time again. WW says she want's her half of the estate. She's been a great friend, wife, soul mate, mother, lover for so long she's worth every cent of it ( and I told her so, no dispute here.) But it's what splitting assets would mean for our kids. First a one way trip back into town, then living with one parent most of the time. They see us both every day now and I think it's good for them.

WW and some counsellors have said that I must allow OM into my home to talk OC issues with my wife. I say, no way, OM must deal with me or at least US. This may be the issue that will force the division of all we've worked for in the last 16 yrs. Comments ?

Can't get away from this OM. He says "doesn't matter where you move to I'll be your neighbour". One man (OM) travels a lot more easily than my whole family. (10 or 11 people ).

Also, I'd be prepared to make a go of our M again if we could get rid of this ongoing contact... any ideas ?

Is this affair deal such a strong addiction that no contact is the only option ? Anyone been there ? OC needs his Dad, no doubt, but not my wife.

With this much water under the bridge, is a Plan A, Plan B option still on the cards ?

As Elton John Sings "What've I got to do to make you love me ?". Yeah I know, you can't *make* someone love you. But we were soul mates, now we're acquaintances with broken hearts... and we can easily break 9 other little hearts by bad choices. To me, it's worth taking a lot of crap to see 8,9? kids get a fair go in life.

Any thoughts ?

fo8,,,,,,,, first let me say that i admire you for still being open to saving your M. every story here has a different twist to it and evry one has a different breaking point. you never know how your going to handle something until you wear that pair of shoes though. my first question to you is, is your w open to repairing your M? this is important because it won't matter what you wish if she is not willing to try.

sorry if i seem to skip around in answering your questions. as far as the large family goes it was more the ages of my kids that kept me trying then the number of kids. my 2 youngest were girls who at the time were 6 & 10, then i had 2 boys 12 & 13. it was the thought of tucking my girls in each night with tears in their eyes because they missed mom (she would have been thrown out and kids would have stayed with me) that kept me trying. if my youngest had been 13 or 14 my m may have well ended. my older ones were very upset with their mom but they still loved her very much. 2 sided strongly with me and one kept himself nuetral.

my w's A was a very short one compared to some i have read about here. in her 3-4 months of confusion i had started to prepare for a divorce in many ways. emotionaly i began to distance myself and financialy i began to protect my investments. if she had left she would have done so with basically what she could carry. let me say that i too married for life but also biblicaly adultery allows for divorce so i felt ok if that were the final outcome for us.

another thing that jumps out at me from your post is that it seems om (my term was snake i believe) still wants to be involved with your w. how does your w feel about this? my w decided to work on our marriage very early after our d-day. this was a big plus for me. the om in our case thought he could continue to control my w until just this past week. i finally had a talk with him yesterday morning to let him know exactly what rights he has and exactly what will happen if he ever bothers, harrasses or baggers her on the phone again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> i think he got the message but he hasn't had the chance to bug fullhouse without me being around yet. i would suggest that you simply explain to him in no uncertain words that he has the right of visitation to his child and no rights to your w. if you and w are going to raise this baby then he needs to know that if he were smart he would hope that you treat his child as your own and that you will be making many decisions for regardless of his ego. one option you may investigate is placing a restraining order on him to keep him from you and your family. if he wants to be part of his childs life there isn't much you can do to stop him.

another thought is that who's name is on the birth certificate and who has been determined the bio father through dna testing. if he hasn't been proven the father in many states after 2 years from the birth date you will be legally the father and their is nothing he can do to contest it. also if he is the father he should be paying child support in my opinion. remember that in your situation your w and you should be in control and if he is presuming to take the offensive then you need to step up and take it away from him through the court system. trsut me this is a very effective method of letting him know exactly who is in control. most courts still favor the mom over the father in these cases.

well i hope i haven't confused you on anything and will write more thru the week when i find time.

fo8,,,,, i think it's time for your w to face up to the life you 2 choose to live. i don't think she needs a break i think she needs to face responsibility. what kind of a break is she getting with a baby in her arms? sounds like it is the same thing she was trying to run from. my w fell into a similar rut. she was home with the kids for 20 years, gets bored and lonely with the daily ruetine, gets a job for the first time in 2 decades and gets caught up in the emotions of someone new who is giving her all kinds of fresh attention.

for me my marriage has always come first but i quess fh and i had different ideas of how to proceed with that. i thought that spending lots of quality time with the kids and family were the key. she wanted more time her and me one on one. to tell you the truth we spend much, much more time just the 2 of us going to diner, shopping etc.. yet things here seem about the same as they were prior to her A. i feel that we have fallen into a state of limbo. maybe that is because i am tending to hold back and and brace the wall i built around my heart.

Pops,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Unfortunately it's all bad news here. I'll just explain a few things a bit. OM is definitely the father. 8 blue eyed blond kids and one brown eyed blond kid ...but apart from that we weren't "knowing" eachother after d-day. ( Cool term that I reckon ). WW named him with his fathers name. i.e. OC's middle name is OM's first name. OC's surname is OM's surname. OM is on birth cert. I told her at the time that she'd loose a lot of ground by doing this but my influence not too strong in her life then ( and now ).

Now WW's relationship with OM is a bit of a closed book. I don't think there's a PA going on but who knows... probably when it's convenient. Been down that track and it only leads to arguement. WW has never believed strongly that we can restore our M and feels that I am largely responsible for all of this. Yep I say, I've made my mistakes, but take NO responsibility for this business with OM. I'd like a chance to do better than before. I think people who make mistakes deserve another go.

I have told OM where he stands in no uncertain terms. This jerk say's she's separated, she can do what she likes. Partly true but marriage ends with divorce, not separation I say. The prob here is that WW won't draw the line with him. ( WW's mother did similar ). Confided in me that she "adores" him still... dispite knowing that he'd never look after her if she did go with him. ( Say's she should support herself ! that after being sick for nine months and delivering his child, for which she recieved no tangible reward... what a man ! ).

This whole deal sucks. OM owns large land block, has significant investments and never needs to work again if he doesn't feel like it. Because of tax breaks he pays the minimum CS... about $55 per month (!). Me, Fr of 8, single income going 8-10 ways pay about $4K per year.

If WW doesn't get a job, and doesn't return, I can look forward to paying something like 60% "tax" on my top earnings for I don't know how long. Not much incentive to work... but work I will. No justice here I'm afraid.

WW keen on "getting her own place". That means I get no say in her dealings with OM, and not much influence over OC. With 8 kids I think I must work. A benefit won't provide much for them. So what are the options ? If I pay her out the whole family looses our nice rural lifestyle and HEAPS more in other ways down the track. WW put's a high value on her time out. Think there might be some screwy advise getting to her. Aren't we meant to "fill each other's cups" in marriage ? Not run for cover when it gets tough. I think she's looking for support/healing in all the wrong places... meanwhile my life heads down the tubes and 8 kids pay the price.

Yes I'm angry about it... very slacked off really... and trying not to be judgemental ( How can you not be ? ).

But I need some creative ideas on how to be the worlds least elligible bachelor. How to keep my family together ( one of my strong goals ).

Any thoughts... anyone ?

fo8,,,,,, sounds to me that om is of the mind set that only a baseball bat used in an explanitory fashion upside his head will work. since this is not possible and it also sounds like your w is interested in keeping him around. there seems to be no choice but for you to start moving on with your life. seek out a very good attorney to try and protect your financial investments and get you possibly primary physical custody of your kids.

next move on with your life socially. that doesn't mean rush out and jump into another relationship but start to enjoy some social activities. this may include even dating.

as far as the oc and what to call you is concerned. how much time does the c spend with you? does he live with you? if he is living with you he should call you the same thing your kids do. if not i don't feel you should even have contact with him. nothing personal or ill meant toward the boy. but in that instance he is not your responsibility.

the om may not like him calling you dad???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> why are you so concerned about his feelings? that guy should rot in he!!. i hope you are not supporting that mans child in your case.

i'm sorry to be so short with this post but the best advice i can give you here is to again seek out a good family law attorney and try to get you and your w into some counseling. if she is not willing then you need to go anyway. i feel that you are a really easy going guy but this has got you all mixed up as to who you should be worrying about.

remember that although marriage builders is the name of this site that does not mean to me that the saving of every marriage that comes here is possible. and that does not mean that your 8 can't become a very close and productive family without your w.

sorry if this is to blunt or negative but you need to start looking out for yourself and your kids and let your w sort out her stuff.

praying for your family,, pops

FO8 I suggest you heed pops wise words especially these:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">pops:

"remember that although marriage builders is the name of this site that does not mean to me that the saving of every marriage that comes here is possible. and that does not mean that your 8 can't become a very close and productive family without your w."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One other thing is that if you do decide to divorce your WW, and get custody of the kids, she will have to bust her butt off to help financially support those 8 kids of yours, and that will throw a big cold water of reality into her fantasy world.

Let her see the reality. Marriages can be salvaged only when there are two people and not three. U have to divorce her for the sake of yoiur kids. She is blackmailing u with the kids. If u divorce and detach emotionally then she will see the light and come to u. For this u dont even have to divorce her. Why dont u go on Plan B mode?

Will it help the Relation TCCM?, Do u see any possibility in the M?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dhanush:
Let her see the reality. Marriages can be salvaged only when there are two people and not three. U have to divorce her for the sake of yoiur kids. She is blackmailing u with the kids. If u divorce and detach emotionally then she will see the light and come to u. For this u dont even have to divorce her. Why dont u go on Plan B mode?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is an excellent idea for it is obvious that FO8 still has plenty of love for her, and wants to save his family. And even if it doesn't open her eyes and makes her want to rebuild the marriage, it will certain help him to start preparing for divorce if it comes to that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Will it help the Relation TCCM?, Do u see any possibility in the M?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B is risky but since she has not willingly ended all contact with the OM, no more risky than the path the marriage is on right now, divorce.

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

tmcm,,,,, your eyes must have been in my sockets tis morning when i looked in the mirror. whoa nellie!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

fo8,,,,, i did't mean to say that there is no hope as i can see you love your w very much and are very concernrd about your families well being. but think what your kids are learning from the situation that they are seeing. mom and dad living together with mom not caring for dad's feeling all the while happy to see this stranger everyday. not really a wholesome family picture in my eyes.

i am quessing and don't mean to be demeaning when i say this but it sounds as if you are hanging on to her like a lovesick puppy. i am sure that is not the man she once loved.

i just think you need to separate yourself from her before what love you have left for her is lost.

the song "i'm gonna harden my heart" by pat benitar really helped me and i have recommended it to others.

hoping you can see thru to the light,, poops

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

Pops, TMCM, et al,
Thanks for your advise. Not what I want to hear but probably what I need to. Breaks my heart.

I'm heading into the mountains with two of my kids for 3 nights. Back Sunday. Gonna have to chew on this a bit. Not sure that having custody myself and being a SAHD is the best thing. Gotta be some other alternatives.

Take care... I'll be back.

fo8,,,,,, i am sorry and don't mean to guide you as if there were no hope for your M. although i see it that your w's position is not a positive one.

what i am trying to say is you need to break yourself away from her emotionally. i know this is hard when you have so much history together.

remember she didn't fall for you while you were emotionally dependent on her. tell her you love her for all the joy she's given you BUT you can no longer be a part of this inappropriate lifestyle she is choosing to live. this has to be told to with a strong heart and no tears on your part. set you boundaries and be prepared for her to give you a cold ok back. she is most likely still in a fog and may seem to say if that's the way you want it.

you have allowed this thing to go on way to long with her and om treating you like dirt. it may take some time but you need to take control.

then as i have said before prepare yourself for the worst and hope for the best. that way should she decide that she no longer wants the marriage or any part of it YOU will be ready for it.

i don't know all the particulars of your home life but i see nothing wrong with a man being a single primary custodial parent.

i think that my w's om is just starting to get the picture that i am in control now and he needs to get in line or face more serious consequences then just paying cs.

remember one person is not a relationship. it takes 2 people working together to make a marriage strong let alone rebuild one after this kind of nuclear holocust intervenes.

Pops,

I've been living on hope but there's not a lot of that left. Had a pretty good Plan A type talk with her tonight. No emotion, just common sense stuff, like where is this leading you, me and 9 kids ? I didn't intend to get into that without a bit more thought but she's off to see her lawyer this week about "getting her half out" and wants her own place regardless of the cost to others it seems.

You're right about letting this go on for too long but honestly what is the alternative ? SAHD means that the kids get next to nothing but existing. I can earn twice what she can. That's not meant to be a boast, just a fact based on different skills and training.

How does a relationship work, when there are 8 kids ( ours ) that need two parents ( us ) and we're not co-operating ?

My thinking has been, keep the kids secure as poss in this crazy situation. At the time she left she NEEDED a break but there was plenty of fog around too. Well she got her break, kids got some security. After 2 and a half years I still have my house, job and kids, but no wife. Maybe only God can change our hearts enough. I think, it's her sin, her choice, I don't think I have any mandate to make life hard for her, life is hard enough without me "helping".

I had the upper hand with OM about 9 months ago when I last spoke to him, but she want's him around as "just a friend". Can't fight it if she's not on side. OC lives with her and goes to OM's place often too. WW not living with OM.

It's quite clear that she doesn't want to work on our relationship issues. The shame is too great with family, friends etc. She gave up long ago. I think that negative thinking killed our marriage more than any other thing. I find it unbelievable but it's reality. Unfortunately the cost is astronomical.

I had a great time in the mountains. Gonna be a lot more of that ( with my kids ) in the future. Be more fun with my wife but that's her choice.

I'm encouraging her not to do the "fight over who gets the kids" thing as I think we'll both loose. Someone may have another angle on this and I'd like to hear it. Don't know what I'm heading into.
I think it's likely that motherhood is not her big focus right now, so even if she got custody, they'd be coming my way a lot. She finds it a much greater task now that she's not fully focused on it.

The plug is about to be pulled on my life big time.

Fo8

fo8,,,,, sorry to here where things are heading but from your posts it seems the writing was on the wall. if i may make a couple of suggestions.

i am not sure in what state you life but i live in ca and these are some of the things possible if you live here. but keep in mind if you don't many states laws are different so do your homework. on her getting her 1/2 out. i presume that you are referring to her equity in the house. have your attorney press for hoint legal custody with you having primary physical custody. what this means is that you and her will have to communicate in things such as medical, education, religion, etc. you will have sole physical custody and she will be granted visitaion. i say this because wuith that large brood of yours you certainly need to have a home big enough for all of you.

if this is not exceptable then seek nothing short of joint legal and joint physical. if your ww is not feeling overly motherly right now those kids will end up spending more time with you and although noone wins in this kind of situation you will be better off.

next instead of letting her cash out offer to give her a small lump sum now. you stay in the house with the kids untill the younest is out of school (18). then you sell the house and split the equity at that time. or you refi and pay her off. part of this is that you pay all the morgage and property taxes this will offset the need for her to pay you spousal support AND also offset her acrueing interest on her present equity as it will be growing through the years.

your right a relationship can't work if one person doesn't want it to. they can't be onesided.

you are also right in keeping the kids as secure as possible. another suggestion is to not let them here you saying anything negative or berating you ww at any time. this can be very detrimental to your relationship with them.

glad you had a good time in the mountains. which mountains did you and your tribe run thru?

ladies please don't jump down my troat for this if you are reading along. but fo8 i can tell you this that if your marriage fails it's a smorgasborg out there when it comes time to start a new relationship.

keep looking for that silver lining. pops

Hi Pops,

Thanks for the good advise once again.

As far as the mountains go, they were mountains with snow on them. I've just got to ask you to take it at that level. Where I come from, it wouldn't be hard to blow my cover and I'd rather not do that. But we had a great time, playing in the snow after a pretty good climb to get up there.

Had a bizaar situation today as WW accused me of stalling on selling up some assets. We own some stuff that provides some passive income and as soon as it goes, the income goes with it, so it's a bad thing for the family as a whole to sell it up. Well, yes I am stalling. 16yrs work to set that up. Beneficial for our kids ( and her ) and now she wants out for what I think are not good reasons. The fact is that even she gets better off the longer this takes.

Well the taunt made was "What will you do about it if I move back in ?". i.e. She want's to move back in, have her own room, do as she pleases, see whom she pleases etc etc. I say "No way, I don't want you back for selfish motives. Face up to the pain you've caused and consider my feelings and it's a different game, but to just move in and ride roughshod over my feelings, no, no way.

What strikes me here is that there seems to be so little you can do to "pressure" someone else into doing the right thing. And I have an issue with "pressure" because judgement is not my perrogative ( but I'm not good at being non-judgemental ). So, I ask, what can you do to give the message that this behaviour is not on ?

Now I don't actually think she'll do that (move in). I made it clear that I don't want her back unless "the issues are dealt with", both sides, my junk as well. Also she doesn't want a bar of christianity right now so that is another big issue to me. I have not shut the door on her completely, but there are conditions to her coming back. ( Ladies, if you're reading... and I know this is better than "Mills & Boons", you can get stuck into me if you like... ) I know that's not very attractive, but nor is the destruction that she's caused. Some accountability is in order... old fashioned dirty words... but good for the hearts of everyone concerned.

Should she move back in, I'd rather not be there. Living with all this unresolved stuff is no fun. But if I move out, that's bad for me legally. This whole situation is madness to say the least.

Fo8

fo8,,,,, the mountain trip sounded great and since they had snow it sounds like a wonderful time.

my advice to you would be to not make any financial concessions to her at all now. she left so she left with the clothes on her back for now. please find yourself a good attorney and protect your interests for not only yourself but your children. in her state of mind she will squander all you have worked for and leave everyone on the street.

also you need to take the offensive on her with the courts instead of waiting to see what her next move is. it seems to me that you will have more wieght in the court room if you are the plaintiff rather then the respondent. sorry it has come to this for you but from your discription of her actions she is heading there anyway.

i think you are right not to let her move back in. never mind the heartache it would cause you it would be one of the worst things that could happen for your children. that kind of living arrangement between their parents would be nothing but detrimental (sp?).

you might look into your legal rights, i know people who have divorced or seperated and were unable to sell the home or take money out until the youngest child became 18. and the custodial parent lived in the home with the children. sounds like you would easily get custody because of her abandonment (moving out without the children) her affair may hold a little weight, but i think mainly the way she is conducting her life--the children are not #1 for her. Dont move out or change places with her, dont give her that leverage. Sounds like she is into only what she wants and is not looking out for anyone elses feelings or needs. and give me a break on only being friends with om....yeah sure. i am sorry to impose my thoughts, i know i am the ww. but you really do need to protect what is left of your home and family life. do not enable her, let her stand on her own two feet with her choices, you do not owe her. she owes you alot.

full house,

May I speak frankly with you?? Thank you, I will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You DO NOT have to apologize for being a Former WW. In fact, your counsel and advice is probably more useful than many here, surely mine. Will you please stop apologizing and offer your advice more often. I would appreciate it, and so would a lot of other people. Your posts are very valuable here.

God Bless,

JL

Hi again Pops and Full House,

That's a tough call for me, but I can see it's merits. At least for the first time in 2 and a half years I might have some sense of security that a) the furniture will still be in the house when I get home b) The kids will be there c)Our bank accounts won't have been fleeced etc etc.

Again, I don't think she'd do those things but then again I never thought she'd betray me either.

It really goes against the grain to face off across a court room with someone I love ( but need less and less ). But it is a good way to regain some initiative ( and maybe respect ? ).

She'd argue that she is the "Primary care giver" in that she is in the house from about 9am to 7pm Mon-Fri. Or so I'm lead to believe.

The crazy thing is that she still makes my lunch (!) and today she rang me twice. I’ve taken a more stand offish approach after reading some of the comments on this site.( Particularly “Michelle Weiner Davis’s divorce busting 180 degree list” ) It’s a huge paradigm shift to go from being a protector/provider/lover to standing aloof to let her feel some sense of what she’s doing, and let her miss what we once had ( and believe me it was good ).

I’ve got to count the cost on this one. She is not a thief and has not ripped me off financially by taking money dirrectly, but has cost a LOT more by being naive about what her actions cost. ( e.g. reduced work hours, cost of legal advise, cost of lots of little things like travelling between and running two houses, cost of leave for her to have another mans child, cost of child support, cost of not being able to pursue good long term investment options, e.g. using lower fixed rates for loans etc etc etc… I reckon about $100,000 so far, ( mainly lost wages ).

She still shops for the family ( with money I supply ), cleans our house ( more lately since getting legal advise ) and helps with some motherly things, like helping pack some of my and kids gear to go to the mountains. Her angle is that she want’s to be “free” ( like 16 yr olds do ).

There is a real possibility of living on next to nothing on a benefit if I got custody of the kids. I’ve got to weigh that against the possibility that some other undesirable male will step into her life and raise my kids. Right now, I consistently invest in my relationship with the kids. It’s the only thing that I can be certain is worthwhile. Completing our partially renovated home is well down the list now – ( I like working for full rewards, not half of them ).

This is a difficult decision for me Pops & Fh. She sees her lawyer tomorrow, so it might be brought to me anyway.

Fo8

fo8,

Well, I can tell you, also from a former WW pov that what Pops and FH have suggested/advised you is excellent!!!!

I know of some people who only had ONE kid, the WW left to be w/another man and the father got custody of the ONE kid(no OC involved either) Why? Because that father showed to be the best for the child!!!! From everything that I've read of your story/situation, you are what's best for your children!!!! Yeah, she's "trying" to do more now, on advice of her attorney, but what about the last 2 1/2 yrs?!?! Where was she then!!!! I'm sorry, but 99.999999% of the time 180's end up turning back with in a short period of time after all is said and done!!!! Because it's not something that person normally does or wants to do, so why continue after it is no longer necessary? Do you see what I'm saying?

She has too much history of "doing her own thing" and letting you mainly handle the kids! I believe that she's more of a "care giver" than a mother! Of course, I'm just going by what little most offer, but that's what I see.

I don't know if I was of any help! I believe that you need to do what's best for the family, and if that's to keep WW OUT till she agrees to your conditions, then so be it! Your WW does NOT seem repentent of what she's done, and until she is, with the behaviour she has desplayed, I say that she needs to remain OUT of the home(as far as living)! To allow her back at this time will not only cause you emotional harm, but the kids as well!

I honestly hope that I helped! Know that you are doing what's best for all the kids involved!

Tigger

Hey thanks Tigger,

It does help me. Things are awefully quite around here ( I mean between WW and I ). I think there are more secrets, like with her lawyer etc.

I've gotta say, and this is for everyone, that I appreciate your willingness to share, and contribute. There are some awesome people here. Some people with crushed hearts that want to beat again to give life to someone else. I'm inspired and encouraged... Thankyou !

Fo8