It's been awhile since I've posted.

Found out in August that H is 99.9% father of OC.

H ended A before found out about pregnancy. OC turned 1 year old in August.

OW married the man she started dating after A ended. They are expecting child any time now.

She already had 2 children with 1st H. This one will make #4.

Last week we got the court papers ordering CS which we started paying in August. $716/month.

I was looking through the papers and there was a photo copy of a picture of the OW and OC. I have seen neither OW or OC, and H has not seen OC. It was rather emotional for me. H said OC does look like me.

He has decided on no contact. He can't bear to talk to OW much less have to see her. He is afraid that if he has contact with OC that OW will try to worm her way back into his life. He truely regrets the A. I have forgiven him and her and we are trying to put it behind us.

We have 3 children 17,13,& 7. We have told no one about A or OC. Are we doing the right thing by having no contact? H is afraid our children, our families & friends will hate him for what he did to me. He wishes it would "all go away".

I've told him that if he wants contact with OC, that I will stand by him. He mostly wants no contact with OW. She recently started calling him at work again, just to talk, mostly about her marital problems. Amasingly enough that is how their A started. She would cry on his shoulder and he felt sorry for her. He finally had to refuse to accept her calls. He just couldn't deal with it. Sometimes I think it has been harder for him than it has for me.

My main concern is that H name is on birth certificate. When she starts school, gets her drivers license, goes to college, gets married, etc., she will need her birth certificate. I don't want her to show up one day on my doorstep. How will my children feel 15 years down the road when & if they find out about her? Will they be angry that we didn't tell them? Will they have wanted to have known their half- sister while growing up? If we tell them now, will they hate their father? How will our families feel. I'm sure they will all be disappointed. I would really rather no one knew about his adultry, but I want to do the right thing. I love my H and will do whatever he wishes, I just don't want him to make the mistake of not knowing his child.

Any advice would be appreciated.

butterfly bonanza

Butterfly,

I'm no expert, far from it, but I feel for you guys in this. Even though it's a really tough thing you're in here, you have a lot to be thankful for. You've got at least a recognition that the A was a bad move, and I take my hat off to you for the thoughfulness you have for your H in realising how hard it is for him too.

My WW and I are from the school of thought that openness is better than secrecy.

I'm a 1958 model and all my life I've lived with some behaviours that were "family" things but which didn't stack up. Then about 3 yrs ago, someone dropped a bombshell and it was revealed that my GRANDPARENTS had divorced. ( I've never met either of them ). So these things have long tails and tend to have an influence that goes a long way... sometimes very subtly.

Getting back to the openness thing, and please this is just my opinion, I think that there should be a time ( a right time ) for your kids to meet the OC.

Your motives are good... really good, and I think that if you soak the idea in prayer you might be able to meet OC at some future time when they are old enough to have a bit more understanding. Perhaps a few months before the OC starts school.

Maybe you (BB) could set it up with OW's husband as a start and see where it goes from there. Yes it will be tough on your kids, but after the inital shock, they will gain a lot more respect for you having the guts to come clean. Maybe tell your own kids a month before meeting OC.

In say 3 yrs time, your kids will be a little more mature and secure and it'll be something from the past rather than a threat in the present for them to deal with.

I think that's what I'd do, but other folk may have a different angle on this one.

All the best... and I will pray for you all.

Fo8

I am in the mind set with fatherof8. I believe in being open is the best...I feel secrets always come out one day and that you won't be prepared or in a position to control it. I also believe in giving age appropriate answers and information though. I don't think young children should carry the weight of all the details, or even teenagers because they are already at a tough age. I have numerous experiences (too many to write on now) But I have a cousin that gave a baby up for adoption because she was 15 when she had her. This baby is now a 35 year old woman and she has popped into her life. But of course to us since we all knew about her it was a joyous event. You now read about children of sperm donors seeking out that biological father. I have a girlfriend that found out at age 10 that the father she has always known wasn't her biological father. She didn't really ask too many questions about the biological father until she was an adult. Then she even waited a couple more years until she seeked him out. Then after meeting him she took even a few more years till she felt like forming a relationship with him. She confided to me that she is mad at him for not trying to get to know her while she was growing up, that she would have liked to known her 1/2 siblings while growing up not trying to form a relationship with them now that she is an adult. Her mom even told her that she asked her biological dad to stay out of the picture so her and her new husband could raise her. It doesn't matter to my friend, she thinks her dad should have fought to see her. It is just MY belief that if the adults can work it out that the child can be in their life without the OW. If OW needs to talk about OC then it can go through a 3rd party or it has to be done through email, or regular mail. These are just my opinions. But I think you and your H need to be in a stable position before you take on more.

Your husband has stated he wants no contact? Then allow it. He does not want her to worm her way back into your lives, and she obviously has tried just that. He wants it all to go away? Allow him this time to not have contact. There is no hurry. Listen to what he has said, he is telling you what his needs are, at this time.

For your children. I have two teenagers myself and they were livid with their father. They hated him for awhile. Once when he tried to discipline my daughter, about her staying out to late one night, she really turned on him and blasted him about dragging me and the whole family through the mudd with an oc. She, for awhile totally hated her dad. She was embarrassed and ashamed. And for the record, she has no interest what so ever in meeting oc. None of our children do.

They do love their father, but they are humiliated at the oc aspect and how Jerry Springer it all is. They see, no matter how you try to hide things. So tell the older ones the truth. Of course their opinions will be altered by this. However, your husband needs to face all members of his family for the hurt he has caused. It will not just all go away.

Will his kids judge him? Probably. They will still love him. They will probably go into overdrive as far as your feelings are concerned. But this can all be worked out. It needs to be worked out.

I am a firm believer in no contact. Why should your children be hurt, humiliated, and have to suffer? Why are their feelings expendable? I see people here who have contact and it doesn't seem to work. How are your kids going to feel, if you have contact, and that child comes to their home? Will they feel comfortable with their friends coming over with oc there? What do you expect them to tell their friends about the one year old that is there? Do you think they will feel comfortable with that? How about your husband, will he feel comfortable holding the oc, in your presence, in the family home?

What about you? You have forgiven and moved on, why open that can of worms and upset a whole family? I would tell the teens the truth, but leave contact far off the table. Are you sure you want the ow in your life for the next 20 years?

I also don't think your children will care one way or another if they meet the oc in the future. My kids want nothing to do with him. Actually, we don't even discuss the issue in front of them.

Slow down, think this out. There is no rush.

Talk to the children, at least the older ones. And go from there.

I think I can answer this for you. My father has an OC from an affair he had when I was around 12. I remember problems with my parents and a huge fight and him leaving for a week or so. He came back and everything was normal.

When I was in my early 20's I was at my friends Aunt's up North somewhere in the middle of no where. Her adult cousin came by for coffee and we were introduced. He asked me if I knew xxx. I said yes, they are my parents...turns out he worked with them way back when. He accidentally told me that my father had another child.

For ten years I did not ask my parents (now divorced) if it was true or not. Then I was pregnant with a MM's baby and he didn't leave his wife as promised. I asked my Mother...she confirmed that it was true but didn't know the identity of the woman. My father never had contact with my sibling, never paid CS.

I love my father but I do not respect him. I think karma came back and bit him in the [censored] big time. I feel as though I am disposible to him because he threw away his OC. I resent my Mother for allowing it to happen. I am angry with both of them for denying me the right to know my sibling. As a child, and I think we always are children where are parents are concerned, I feel worthless because my father considered his OC worthless. I just happened to be born of the "right" mother.

I think everyone is correct when they say take it slow, this is a very hard time for everyone, decide together what is best for you and your family. Pops and I did not keep anything a secret, we told our children, accordingly to their ages and answered any questions they had, yes the older ones were very upset, angry and i thought id lost their love, it was a very hard hurtful time for all, we told our families and close friends. it just seemed to difficult to keep this secret. through time and love my children have forgiven me, our families have worked through it, and everyone loves the baby. om's family has done the same. so it can work out. even though this was wrong and should never have happened, we have worked it out and all her siblings have accepted and do love their sister. she has a wonderful supportive family on both sides. so it can turn out ok. pops and i are still working out the crimps in our marriage, but i have faith all will be ok. i am a ow that does not contact the om. it has always been him who contacted me. so it was up to him how much if at all , contact with the baby he wanted, and it was up to him to decide whether to tell any of his family or not. i was not going to do that. i was ok with no contact, i would have never forced the issue. so as you can see we all have different stories and outcomes, you have to look into your hearts and see what is best for you and your husband, what you can live with, what is comfortable for you. dont let anyone else force their ideas on you, this is a personal decision, whats right for one may not be right for another. im sorry that you have to go through this, it will be rough no matter what you choose. but as what was stated by others i do agree, take your time, think it over, weigh the consequences and get counseling, it probably will help your decisions go more smoothly. i am sure if we had it probably would have helped alot,
full house

bttrfly,,,,,, i have to agree that you have gotten some excellent advice. HONESTY is the best way to handle this.

if your h has choosen nc that is fine. since you have said that you would stand beside him what ever his decision should ease his mind as to what is really in his heart.

don't underestimate the love, compassion and forgiveness that children have in them.

although our older c's were hurt and angry at fh they have forgiven her and accept grace as their sister the same as their other siblings. the younger kids have just always accepted her as their equal.

i believe that your kids will follow your lead as will your family and closest friends. if you are ok with it they will be too.

as you have probably read here and elsewhere that even where there is an absent parent for18 odd years does not quarantee that that person is out of your life forever.

that is one of the reasons i asked fh to persue cs now. let's get everything up on the table and move on.

Twillight,
Are you married? I want to be gental here because I know that you have been posting for awhile. My H has an oc and a ow I would love no contact and I would respect my husband alot more for it. Yes I know it takes two and he betrayed me with her, but to say karma bit your dad in the [censored] is the biggest cop-out I have ever heard!!!!!!
Now I have to say God bless you and YOUR baby. Your job now is to make sure that you teach your child right from wrong and stay in prayer.
I am sorry if I do not have the compassion that I should, but if you have ever read one of my other reply's I am getting better.
I hate for people to cop-out like that though.
It sounds like karma bit you in the [censored] for messing with a married man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

lol...not a cop out at all. I wasn't talking about my own brush with karma...I was talking about my father as the man who abandonned a child. The two in my mind are not mutally exclusive.

He has to watch his "chosen" child go through what he inflicted on another person. I can't think of a more fitting punishment. Yes he suffered other consequences, he was a serial cheater and my Mom threw him out. But in this instance, I do believe it is karma. In NO way am I saying where I am is his fault...I don't believe blaming an adults actions on the parents is a viable excuse for anything. I do believe that I may have issues resulting from my parents marriage but I am responsible for my actions.

Yes, my current situation did bring up my anger towards my father for what he did, but I am dealing with it.

I am technically married but have been seperated for three years. Not due to my affair, although they did overlap by three months. It was just a really bad marriage, because of another bad choice I made.

Twilight,
I am sorry if I hit a nerve. I did not know that you were a ww as well as an ow. I can't see why you are upset with your dad for loving you and trying to bring you up correctly. I did not grow up with you so I may be being presumptious. Your dads A and oc have absolutly nothing to do with what you have done except should have tought you a lesson. You have to remember your dad choose the best plan for him. He may have really screwed up your life if you had grown up with contact.
I am sure your dad is sad for what he did. Abandonment is not even a relevant topic when it comes to the oc. You understood full well he was married when you had your 1st child and the 2nd did you think he was going to divorce her? Most people divorce fairly quickly when they are in love. Between you and me how did it seem like a good ideah to have 2 children with a married man? Do you think that you could have chosen a more reasonable and steady life to bring children into. Now I am not knocking you as a parent. I am just asking don't you want the best for your kids. And what are you going to tell them about their dad. Please tell me it is not going to be the "he doesn't want anything to do with you" because that just isn't true if they were his wifes children he would have spent plenty of time with them.
To me this is a learning experience, how beit painful for everyone involved. I just hate it when we act like something good is going to come of something sooo wrong.
I am sorry if I sound bitter, I am working on it. I have little if any sympathy for a woman that knows or knew the man was married.

I am going to try and be polite because this is not my board and I respect the fact I am tolerated as a guest here. First you are being very presumptious. My childhood experience was horrendous, and my father played a role in that. He didn't do what was best for the marriage or the family, he was too drunk to care about any of us.

Second, my first child is a result of my marriage. I do not consider myself a ww, I got out almost immediately and tried to before it happened but my xh is violent and there were reasons I couldn't leave.

At this point, I don't care why xmm stayed, or why he cheated in the first place. I am trying very hard to move past him. My daughter is a pill baby but I had gotten pregnant with xMM before not on the pill due to carelessness (i had a miscarriage).

I answered this thread because I had a unique perspective being the sibling to an OC, if you don't like what you read I'm sorry. It is MY truth.


edited to add: I have a strong, if slightly dysfunctional, relationship with my father now. (he has been sober for a long time). I did revisit OC issues with him when xMM decided to stay married, but generally we are close. As for my Mother, I did talk to her about this recently, as we have a more open relationship. I told her how I felt about her and "their" decisions.

one more thing...does anyone else she the flawed logic here...I should have known better, learned from my father's mistakes and therefor not gotten involved with a mm. Maybe, just maybe I was drawn to a mm because of my father's mistakes? Not saying what I did is justified by this...just saying that it may have contributed to my "psychie". Patterns ya know...issues from childhood that you never see until it is too late. The children of the marriage will be effected, no matter what you do, no matter which choices you make. Ultimately you know them better than anyone and have to do what you think is best for THEM.

ok...steping off my soap box now.

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: twilight ]</small>

Twilight,
I am sorry for being presumptious, and I am aware that my logic may be flawed. This is a very sore subject for me. And like everyone else here I am here for advice and help. So I am sorry to be cras.
Maybe you were drawn to the mm because of your dad. My dad was an alcoholic for most of my life he was in recovery the last 7 of his. My dad was also a flirt, a gambler at times, and one of the most wonderful people I have ever had the pleasure to meet. I have been married for 7yrs. and sepetated for 5mos. I still love my husband very much. And my husband is nothing like my dad.
I am sorry that your H was abusive a person can only take so much before any affection seems right. I applaud you for trying to get on with your life, and as well you should.
As a BS I was so mad at my H for being so selfish as to have an affair in the 1st place. And being a mom I know how it would feel if he were not a dad to my boys. I hate that my H and the ow chose to have the oc. I am NOT for abortion at all so please don't misunderstand. I just happen to think that it is cheating the child out of sooo much. And look at all of the work that it has put on you. You are now the sole person responsible for this child. I am sorry that I don't understand and I appreciate you posting. Maybe people like you will help me not want the ow to implode disapper and go to 4311.
To tell you the truth I am tired of being mad its just the audacity of a person (the op and WS) to think that someone doesn't matter that much.
I will take your advice about what is best for my children and I hope you do the same. As for me and my family I don't want my children to know about the oc. It is not the oc's fault and I know that, but tell me what good could come out of the oc being with my children? What good should come of it? I am sure the oc is a good kid, but there are millions of good kids out there so how is the oc different? The oc is not my child and is not my responsibility and neither is the ow. As far as I am concerned she not only asked for the heartach she begged for the oc to be different. If she had had a real relationship with MY H then she would not be in this predicument.
I have to thank you again twilight. And I hope that you know this is nothing personal. I wish nothing but the best for you. And I have enjoyed this conversation.
May God bless you and your childrens broken heart. (as well as mine and my childrens) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

P.S. I understand no one really wins in these situations we all lose something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

yes, we all loose and I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to be mad anymore. I am only just now realizing how hard this is going to be and so my anger is actually getting worse rather than better. It doesn't help that I am tied up in court over this, for really no reason. There is a lot I can accept, even NC to a degree but denying my child the right to a passport makes no sense to me. I didn't even ask directly but through a third party. I just wanted to spend x-mas with my family and now I can not. I have to go to court to get the passport signed...why? But anyway, I digress...

I did want to say one thing Bran...be careful. The weird way I found out about the OC, it was almost as if I was meant to find out. I personally don't believe family secrets can ever be truly hidden. Think about which is better, having them know now or having them find out by accident the way I did. No explanation as to why just the knowledge that this person existed. Perhaps I would have felt differently had my parents explained it to me. Don't forget I didn't confront them until much, much later...and I have yet to confront my father directly.

SO much pain...I don't even know where to put it all anymore. It's just too big...as I am sure you can relate. I wish I had never been a part of any of it, except that I wouldn't wish my daughter away for anything. I have to believe there is a greater purpose, if only if it is to STOP the cycle.

Twilight, your life has been hard. I feel bad for you. However, I find your anger at your mother and father, for deciding no contact out of place. I do agree that you should have been told at sometime, especially since other family members knew. But your anger at them is misplaced. You were about 12 years old when this happened? What do you think a 12 year old would understand about this? As the parent of an 11 year old, who knows a little about our oc, I can tell you, they don't like the situation at all. Your mother, especially if she was dealing with a husband such as she had, probably was trying to spare you further embarrassment and hurt. To blame her? That is just plain cold.

Your current situation has nothing to do with your past. I certainly do not blame my parents for my mistakes and poor judgement. I am adult and take responsiblity for my own problems. You have a daughter who is fatherd by a mm. He is choosing no contact as that is what is best for him and his wife. Unfortunately, as you agree, everyne gets hurt, including oc. I have read your story and see where you planned on him leaving his wife and raising this child with you. Where was your concern for his wife and her feelings while you were planning that future? Well, that is where her feelings are right now, pertaining to your child. Sad? You bet it is. But it is not her fault. She did nothing to bring this child into the world and owes oc nothing. Her husband, well he owes cs. But he already had a commitment, one that he apparently is not willing to let go at this time. He is choosing no contact to keep his marriage intact. Is he wrong? No, not if he wants his marriage. What you need to understand, and has been written here many times, is yes, the oc loses out on sometimes knowing their bio-dad. But is that not part of the damage of the affair in the first place? Children of the marriage are hurt, wives are hurt and oc are hurt. It is the nature of the beast. Your child obviously has a mother who loves her very much, you will probably be a very good mother to her and she will love you for the rest of your days. Enjoy that. Her bio-dad is out of the picture cause he is choosing his wife and they, as a couple have decided that the oc is not going to be a part of their lives. Reality.

The whole part about him not signing a passport is strange. I don't know why it would matter to them if you came to visit your sister. I am assuming that you are Canadian and he is in USA. Your sister married an American perhaps? Is it cause of after 911 that you can't get a passport for her? That I don't understand at all.

Either way, I know you are in a tough spot.

LynnG....I don't blame my parents for my adult choices, I don't want it to come across that way. Anger I think is a strong word. Disappointed is perhaps better. Maybe they shouldn't have told me when I was 12 but they should have told me at some point. Then again they never told me they were divorcing either...one day my Dad was just gone and no one ever said a word about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

As for the passport, I don't pretend to understand...unless I am being punished but even that seems bizarre.

On a side note Lynn...Your view point is extreme and harsh when it comes to the OW but even through that, I get a lot from your posts and happen to agree with your points (most of them) about the legal stuff. Just like the BW's I must also do everything in my power to protect my children...I respect that.

twilight,,,,,,, you have to remember that (this time line is just a guess) 25 - 30 years ago
was not the same world we are living in today. just look at the news stories that are creating headlines today. two such examples would be the difference between bill clinton's trist and that of john f. kennedy and look at the coverage of the vietnam war (which was breathtaking in it's day) and that of the war in iraq.

our world has changed and not that A's are now exceptable but that it is tremendously hard to live with skeletons in the closet. for everyone. who wants to live with the fear that "someone" will find out for the rest of your life.

just wanted to talk about a couple things that are being mentioned in this thread. it will mostly be from our (fh& me) family experiences.

first i hope that karma does not play into the lives of anyone else in our household. as fh's grandfather and her mother and from what i understand my father although he has passed on he supposedly had twin d's that no one ever met) all had separate A's wasn't the reason that fh had hers. if that was the case does that mean that our 4 daughters and our 2 grandaughters are going to follow the same path. i surely hope not.

i think the reason that she fell into her A was because no one was here to relate the pain that these things carry with them.

secondly let me just relate how fh and i handled breaking the news of her pregnancy to our kids.

when she was getting bigger in the belly we realized she culdn't hide her preg. much longer. so we decided to sit all the kids down and tell them. we told them all separately so we could field their questions and attend to their emotional needs as they arose.

we made sure that we told them all that we were intending to stay together and try as best as we can to work out the problems we were having in our marriage. they were also all told that i was not the father.

the oldest 2 at 28 and 20 (s & d respectively) at the time were the angriest. the 19 yr old s was always a kinda mellow kid so he just took it in stride. i think that the older 2 were so mad because they had already been involved with mates and related to the great emotional pain a betrayal brings with it.

all the others (13, 11,10, & 6 - s,s,d,d respectively) were all just happy to be having a new brother or sister. most likely because they had never felt the hurt of a broken heart before. this goes for the 19 yr old also.

fh and i tried our best to keep our discussions away from them and without screaming or yelling.

all of our kids are proud of grace and proud to show her off to their friends.

i think that is because of what they see in this house. grace is treated the same as everyone else. she is loved the same as everyone else. my natural kids played a very big part of showing me how to except her. all was not peachy for at the start by any means. but i realized after watching them with grace that they were right , grace didn't do anything wrong. so i was able to separate her from the A.

now our marriage is far from healed by any means. but as far as the A that is probably 80% behind me. we are trying to work on things that relate to our marriage now. mainly meeting each others en's.

one thing that met one of my needs was just the way fh responded the past day or two to some mb's threads. i saw the old her in her writings and that made me feel proud of her and light in my heart. and if you were wondering i told her so.

i think what i am trying to say is that sometimes when you hide the truth until kids are older what you do is allow them to understand the emotional pain of what happened. then the shock of the news and that understanding create a major issue.

where if you were to tell them at a younger age and show them that their life won't necssarily be threatened they can deal with the emotions easier when they figure that out.

hope all this made sense. pops

My views on OW and UH are extremely harsh!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I realize that. However, it is cause of the long term damage to so many people, wives, husbands, children of the marriage, children of the affair, they all suffer for the actions of two selfish people.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I am a BW (obviously) and I have stated many times that I have lived the life that these women are looking at. It isn't easy. Nor is it easy on anyone who this situation was forced upon. What I don't understand is how OW expect so much support, and acceptance once the oc is born. How the wife has to accept the child, how the father has to be part of the life of that child, and everybody else be dammed. I don't have that thought process at all. This is why I have such a harsh view. Where was all the care and concern for the children of the marriage by the ow while the affair was taking place?

My posts are harsh cause this situation calls for harsh reality. Dreaming of happy families, all blending together is a farce. Women here are ususally BW, scared and hurt and confused. I come across mean, sharp, arrogant, rude, etc. cause they need to hear the reality of where they are at. They need to remove their tear stained glasses and look with a fine tooth comb at what they have before them. They need to stand up for their lives, their futures, their children, etc. That is alot to do when one is depressed, and confused.

If we were all in a room, I would grab some of these BW by the shoulders and say "WAKE UP and FIGHT FOR YOUR VERY LIFE" cause that is exactly what it is. They need to learn that their views, their feelings all matter. They are important and do not have to meekly settle, and shove their feelings and wishes aside because a baby has been born. I would also hug them. Tell them they will live and prosper and be happy. But that comes in time. I would also tell OW that her live will go on, she will prosper also.

If the husband is all upset cause his wife is not being all docile and accepting, he has a decision to make doesn't he? If he is choosing contact with the child, but it upsets the wife to much, then what? Is not the marriage in the balance here? Would he not be resentfull later if he only chose no contact to appease her? Would she not be resentfull if she stuffed her feelings and had contact with a child who represented the affair and all the hurt? Either way, it would be unfair. Hence, take your time and decide together.

These issues need to be dealt with upfront. Talked about. Shine the light of honesty all around. Can he accept not seeing the child, if she is to uncomfortable with it? Can she accept him seeing that child? What about their children? If they are teens, how are they going to feel about oc at their home? Is the oc more important then them? If the father wants contact, and the kids are uncomfortable with it, then what? Does he discount the feelings and wellbeing of those children? Hoping that they "get over it?". Tough situation for everyone.

This situation is full of land mines. We can pretend all we want that it will be easy if everyone acts as an adult. How should an adult act anyway? Putting the best interests of the children ahead of their own. Ok. Sounds good. What children? Is the OC more important then the children of the marriage? Is it acceptable to force the COM to accept a situation that causes them shame and embarrassment? No. Is it fair that an oc not know his father? So what is the adult way here? Seems like many feel that the only "adult" way is for the BW and her children to toughen up, stuff their own feelings and open their arms to the oc and everyone will benefit. Sounds so easy. Sounds so simple. Looks so darn good on paper doesn't it? It is not that simple. Is it not just as adult for the OW to raise the child with a father figure other then MM?

In my years of living with an oc out there, fathered by my husband, I have met many women in my situation. We do find each other, somehow. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Some did the contact, etc. It did not work out well at all. Their chidren were full of resentment when oc came to the house. They truly were embarrased and did not have their friends over. They were angry that this child was intruding on their lives in an embarrassing way. They resented their father for this.

I know of one situation where the OW passed on. Since her XMM had visitation, he and his wife took over care of the child. Their children were beyond embarrassed and would lie to their friends about who that child was. When the father died, the oc was 14. Now what? The BW raised the child and did love her, but the children of the marriage, even after years, were still unsettled about the whole thing. Angry that their mother, done raising her children was now stuck at home raising a child. To be honest, she does love the girl, but has said on more then one occaision, that she wishes she had her own life and there was resentment at being left to raise this child. A confusing situation to say the least. On the outside, all looks loving and what a decent woman she is, etc. But when she speaks to her close friends, she is resentfull. She allowed her husband to force contact, and her wishes were stuffed. To let them out now, would be to hurtfull. She is angry, she just can't show it. Did the OC benefit here? Does she feel that bit of resentment? God I hope not. Her aunt (OW sister) wanted her, but XMM played Mr. Big Shot and took her in. The cost was high to everyone. Maybe she would have been better off with her Aunt who loves her unconditionally, instead of with a woman and her children who, while they cared, felt manipulated. Of course they would not say this in public, but alone, ouch.

So when I come across harsh, it is cause I have lived the life. I have an oc in our orbit. I know I sound cold and mean <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> But I really am not. I truly do care about people. I care that you are alone with your baby. But you do sound competent, so I think you will be just fine.

As for our oc. His mother is a nutcase, on occaison. She kept pushing and was shocked when we pushed back. That angered her. Have we spent 16 years locked in battle? Hell no. We have all lived our lives. The oc has a father figure and they live a decent life. Everynow and then, ow goes round the bend, and starts in with demands. She gets all wound up and then we battle. This is reality. Is she angry at me or us? I doubt it. She just tries to stir the pot on occaison. See, her life too was altered. She blames my husband for her lot in life. Had she not had OC, she woulda-coulda-shoulda.

So you see, this drama does go on. Not every day, but it goes on. There will be twists and turns, highs and lows. But it changes everyones lives, and not for the better. It leaves behind scars, on everyone. OW and OC too.

So my anger is directed at OW who do not realize what they are playing with. Heck, if there was an UH here, yacking about his wife or children or OC or OW, I would come across harsh to him too, but they don't post here do they? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Can you even imagine the fray if one did? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So I play advocate for BW facing this issue. I am aware that OW have their board, where they get acceptance, advice and are heard by women who have been there, done that. I see a need here for BW to know that they have a voice, and a veteran BW with oc in her life.

Do I hate OW? No. I dislike what they do and assume. I dislike the whole sordid, selfishly cruel acts that UH and OW create without a 2nd thought to the pain it causes others.

Adios. And good luck with your passport issue! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lynn...I think your harsh reality is the right thing. I tried that with xMM when he told me he changed his mind about leaving. I even agree that contact is complicated at best. What irks me is not the NC but the way it was all handled. When I first found out I was pg, xmm swore to me over and over again he was leaving and that we would be together and begged me not to have an abortion or give up the child. I kept saying...you wont leave and I will be alone but I let him convince me when I knew better. Then he decided to stay, and swore that he would be in my D's life, over and over again. His wife said the same to me. I kept asking him what happens when she is born and BW finds it all too much to handle and asks you to go NC? He swore to me that he would never let that happen...are you seeing a pattern here? I realize that I am the fool for believing him, but truly I think he believed him...ya know. I tried to make him face the cold harsh reality but he refused and now I am alone and why I was not prepared for that I have no idea. So my issues aren't necessarily with NC (although I can't say I agree with it), they are with him. Make sense? Why insist on the name being on the bc, giving her his last name, coming to the birth and then just disappear...not even bothering to try and work out some form of cs. Was it all a ploy to see if I would believe his lies one more time? Stupid me.

Harsh reality has it's place, and I for one need to read your posts, even if they hurt.