ray,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To LynnG,
thank you for understanding I am the one who was betrayed and that my feelings do matter.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that's not fair. i wouldn'tve started a thread for you if i didn't care and didn't think that others would too. offering our experiences and opinions (which is all they are... our opinions), even though different than your own, doesn't negate your feelings. not at all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4. To the person who asked how I would feel during the pregnancy if she was going to give up OC for adoption.....I won't deal with it. Either she goes away for the duration, or I do, but I will not sit around and watch another man's child growing in my wife's belly.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i can see how you would feel like this, but i have a couple questions for you:

1. how are you and your wife supposed to heal and repair the damage done to your marriage if she's gone for nine months?

2. what if she does leave for the duration of her pregnancy, she does give the baby up (or have an abortion), you two get back together after nine months apart, but things unfortunately don't work out? she's left without you and without the baby she gave up for you.

ray, i'm really NOT trying to be judgemental. please, i'm the least likely person (ww) to be judging a person like you. but if you and your wife aren't talking about it (quote: "5. She has not responded to my conditions.") than maybe this will help you understand what's going through her head and why this is a decision that must be so hard for her to make.

it seems like some people took my post wrongly. like i was saying it was "wrong" for you to feel how you do. not so. i'm not typing this angrily or bitterly or anything like that... more sad. sad that anyone else has to go through this.

hoping tomorrow is better than today -

amy

My heart goes out to you Ray, and any other BS that's in this situation. You are entitled to your feelings after all this was dumped in your lap. You have a right to feel exactly the way you feel. You were the one betrayed. K. has a good point also.

XRay,

NO one here is nor should be telling you your feelings are wrong. Amethyst03 started this thread for you so you could get some input from others in this situation and investigate your options. Only YOU know what is right for you but hopefully, your final decisions will be after much soul searching. To offer you another solution does NOT mean we don't or won't support whatever you choose to do. We only want you to examine all alternatives so that when you DO make a decision, you do so with knowledge you checked all possible solutions.

{{{{Xray}}}}}

xray,,,,, i am so sorry to see you in this most uncomfortable situation. i know exactly how you are feeling.

i don't think and haven't read anyone's replies to this thread that did not respect your feelings. i don't want to get into a pro con abortion debate. i am certainly pro choice on this matter. but at the same time there ar other alternatives that should be explored.

your feelings of not wanting to watch our wife grow with om's child bring back some very negative reminders (triggers) for me. that and watching my wife in the delivery room were without a doubt the most painful days of my life.

when my wife finally came out and told me of her pregnancy with oc my first reactions were very much like your own. i thought that the best solution was abortion followed closely by adoption. we did get some counseling (although not with the harley's) which helped immensely. it did not change my mind on what i felt were the best solutions. my wife tried to have an abortion but left the clinic unable to go through with it. i was not involved with that. her and om went together before she confessed to her A. and she and i knew she would never be able to give up a child she carried to term.

i felt that the day she gave birth to oc that it was the final nail in the coffin of our marriage. as it turned out it wasn't.

you see my case was different then yours in the length of time we had been married, our ages in life, and our family together. for me not try would have upset many more people then myself.

i have to tell you that had my circumstances been different in any number of ways i most likely would have been divorced.

i understand your reactions and your viewpoint on the oc in your life. what i would suggest is for you to not only seek a good attorney but also get into some marriage counseling. i undersand that the harley's are great in these instances.

what mc did for me was help me to curb my anger so that i could make decisions with a level head. you see i already had the spoken with an attorney and had the divorce papers filled out.

now as funny as it may seem our oc has probably brought us closer togeher.

i wish you the best of luck with whichever road you choose to walk. pops

To all, especially Amy, I know you all want to help and though you may have advice I don't like, you are not trying to negate my feelings. Thank you.

Its been a tough week since I was hit with both the A and pregnancy.

I thought long and hard about the advice to get a lawyer, even did some research on the internet last night. You are all right, legally, I may indeed be considered this childs father by virtue of marriage.

I did something last night which may be counterproductive, but I really had not choice.

As I realized I needed a lawyer, it occured to me that I cannot afford one. Not knowing what to do or where to turn, I confided in my father, who can help me locate a lawyer and provide funds beyond my meager savings.

We had a great talk, as we always have. He is going to stand by me no matter what I do, but he asked, since I have not been married long and have no children, why would I even stay married to her?

He is making some calls today to locate a good lawyer. I am too tired and drained emotionally to do it myself.

I think he may be right. I don't have much invested in this M, and am young enough to start over without all the baggage.

As I have told this forum and I told my Dad last night, I can't raise that child. He agree's with that.
Ray

XRay,

I'm not sure if anyone has pointed you to this, but there is a Question and Answer letter (actually two together) than covers this type of situation on the website.

In it, you can find Dr. Harley quoting in the situation where a man discovers "early" that his sole daughter is not "his":

"There are many important issues to consider in deciding your future together. If your daughter were your only child, and if your wife were still in love with her ex-lover, who happened to be single and wanted to marry her, I would lean toward encouraging you to divorce. But since she is the mother of your two children, no longer loves her ex-lover, and wants to save her marriage, I would encourage you to remain married and raise all three children together."

I would encourage you again to seek out the phone counseling here. Steve would work with you to help sort out your feelings regarding trying to continue with the marriage. If you decide to do this---then he's the best damn coach you can have. And he won't push you or placate you to stay with the marriage (or accept the child). In fact, during my many sessions with him, the toughest he was with me was AFTER I had discovered my wife was pregnant and I was thinking about "accepting" the child. He gave me an ear full of cons---and then let me think about it for a couple of days before we had a follow-up session.

He'll look out for you, and your marriage. He's the best. 888-639-1639 for appointments. I don't get a referral fee---just the satisfaction of people using him and saying how terrific he is.

I'm glad you told your father. You need someone who loves you to suport you, no matter what. You deserve the empathy and concern right now.

I am also glad you looked at the legal aspects of this issue. It is so easy to get mired down in the emotional that the saga takes on a life of it's own. Then, when you decide that you might need some legal help,it is to late.

As for your marriage, at the end of the day, it is all up to you and what you want with your life.

Please don't feel bad about any choice you make. As you can tell, we are all different and have different beliefs and different wants and needs for our own lives.

You are hurting and probably in a little shock also. You need to take care of yourself and be sure you eat, exercise and get away from your thoughts for awhile. These are difficult times for you and you need to stay healthy no matter what the outcome. Find time and do something you enjoy to keep your spirits up.

You sound like a fine young man who was dealt a severe blow. Don't let her behavior keep you down. Actually, had I not had a child when my H put us in this situation, I would have walked away in a nano-second. We were married longer, and had a family already. I had filed for divorce the very next day actually. I packed him up and told him to leave. But we worked it out, but we did not have to have OC staring us in the face while we decided. We choose NC since it was best for our family and marriage. Had he insisted on contact, I doubt I would have stayed either. There is only so much a person has to take. There is also a fine line between being accepting and being a doormat, and each person has a different line.

Best of luck to you know matter what you choose to do.

lynn,

i have to respectfully disagree with something in your last post...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is also a fine line between being accepting and being a doormat...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i bet if you were to ask k, pops, autumnday's h or tigger's h, if they feel like doormats for accepting their oc, they'd say no. i don't like to put words into others mouths, but i think it's pretty safe to say that when k or autumnday's little guys, or grace, or abbi look at them with eyes full of love, that "doormat" is the furthest thing from their minds.

i know that my h doesn't feel like a doormat. liam makes him feel like the king of the world, and neither of us can imagine life without him. even with all the hell and heartache we went through last year, he do it all over again to see liam's face light up when he gets home from work, and to know that the smile on liam's face each morning is for him.

ray, this post isn't intended to make you feel guilty about your feelings or the choice you have to make, it is simply in response to what lynn said. sorry lynn. couldn't let that one slide.

amy

I'm so sorry you have to go through this. I'm glad you told your father and he can help you through this, emotionally as well as financially.

Although I no longer agree w/ "divorce", when I first found out about H A, I would have split right then and there too if I didn't have BC to think of. I'm glad now, though, that we could keep it together. We now have C w/ H OC, it's very hard and I don't recommend it.

BUT since it is your W and OM wants nothing to do w/ C, technically, it would be easier since C would be in your home ALL the time, none of the back and forth nonsense. Just a thought to consider.

I don't blame you for anything you are thinking or feeling right now. It is a good point someone made about your W being gone for 9 months though. How would that work? Adoption is the best course of action, in my opinion.

I bet W is just hating herself right now. Risking everything for what? It may be all for nothing now, she might just lose EVERYTHING and with that in mind, I bet she will want to keep OC so she will have "something" to hold on to and love. There are no guarantees that her marriage will survive, she definately doesn't have OM, even more so adoption is the best solution so that OC has a 2 parent family.

I'm so sorry you have to deal w/ this crap!!!!!

Just to clarify, I don't think you might be considered the father (for legal reasons) you WILL be considered the father. C are automatically considered to be a product of the marriage unless proven otherwise.

I really hope you can find it in your heart to make this marriage work. You have no responsibility to, your wife made that choicealready when she broke her covenant/vow/promise already, but it CAN work. It is not easy @ all and I bet there are BS that sometimes wish they would have just called it quits.

You don't deserve all this unasked for baggage @ all. What is your wife's thoughts right now? Does she want the marriage? Did she confess because she was sorry or because she suddenly found herself caught & all alone? I bet she was really scared to tell you about pg. How did she think you'd react? How did she HOPE you'd react? What did she want from you?

Take care of yourself. I know it's such a hard time right now. It's like your caught right in the middle of this huge whilrwind. It's insane!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Amethyst03:
<strong> ray,

[QUOTE]2. what if she does leave for the duration of her pregnancy, she does give the baby up (or have an abortion), you two get back together after nine months apart, but things unfortunately don't work out? she's left without you and without the baby she gave up for you.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A good point. Let me offer a different slant on this, but along the same train of thought. Suppose XRay stays with his W and agrees to raise the OC. Then, unfortunately, things don't work out. Now he would be without his W, but paying CS for the next 18 years for a child who is not his.
Michael

<small>[ December 10, 2003, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: MichaelinDallas ]</small>

XRay, your father sounds like a loving, wise, and supportive father, when he said he would stand by your decision.

Please get counseling, and an attorney.

I did not mean to sound judgemental. I was only giving my opinion on things to think about. I did not mean to offend you.

Your father has a very good point. In my case, we were married 23 years, and together 3 years before that. Our families were intermingled, we had children, we had history.

My d-day was in 1996. I found out by accident that my H had anOW and 2 OC's, and paying CS. All without me even having a clue.

Today the year is 2003. I am glad I stayed. I love him.

The bottom line is how much you love your wife.

So sorry it hurts so bad.

ember

Let me clairfy what I mean as the line.

Each person has a line that can't be crossed.

For some, any affair, be it one night stand or whatever, is to much so they divorce. And this isn't even with an OC.

For others, when an OC has been born, I can forgive and forget, but choose not to have the OC as part of our family. That is the line for me.

Then there are those who have contact with oc an have no problem with that, and even come to love oc.

Then there are those who have oc living with them.

Each person had a different line. I have friends who think I was crazy to stay with my H since he had oc. THAT is what I think about the line and being a doormat. Some people think I am a doormat for staying in the marriage at all. So everyone is different. It took me a while to figure out where my line was. Just how much could/would I take. It is not a judgement. Each person is different. What newbies have to be carefull of is giving to much of themselves to apease the situation, thereby sacrificing themselves in the process. Example would be accepting contact to ease tensions, to keep the marraige going. How long before the built up hurt and anger comes the surface? Being a patsy will hurt you in the long run. Hence the different lines of acceptance we all have. Also, highlighting the POJA that is so important. Both have to be enthusiastic or one is going to be put in the role of patsy.

Dad spent most of the afternoon looking for a lawyer. He found a good one and spent a bit talking to him. I am going to my Dad's for dinner tonight. Dad makes a mean steak.

My brother is coming over also. We are going to bring him into this and see what he thinks.

Dad set up an appointment with the lawyer for Friday afternoon. Evidently, I am in a good state (GA) for contesting paternity.

Plus, I know who the OM is, so that's a good thing regarding contesting paternity. Also, better to contest it early (as in now) than later, even if I decided to raise the OC.

But, I have thought more about it, and I am sure I cannot raise another man's child. So, I guess the ball is in her court.

Spoke to W on the phone today, and she is still totally undecided and unprepared to make a decision.

I suggested she get some advice from her family as I am from mine. We'll see.

Heading out to Dad's. He suggested that I spend the night, and tomorrow, after W goes to work, we got get some of my stuff out of the apartment, and I live at home til this is resolved.

Thanks for all the concern. Will check in later, or tomorrow.
Ray

Gosh,
It's a sad situation, indeed, especially with all this decision-making happening to you during the holidays. The holidays may forever be a reminder to you of your most difficult period in your marriage. If you feel that your wife has engaged in a dealbreaker for you, like LynnG said and "crossed that line" then do what you have to do.

However, this IS Marriage Builders so we are going to try to encourage you to hang in there.

Perhaps your dad would be willing to help you get a little phone counseling with Steve Harley? It's probably much cheaper than the attorney???

Also, like Pepper said, is there any chance at all that this baby could possibly be yours?

It's been a busy few days.

Meeting with my lawyer went very well. The first thing he asked was the same thing a few have asked here. Am I sure the baby is not mine.

The answer is yes. I am positive. He asked a few questions about why I am sure, but once I answered them he just said ok, let's do what we can to protect you.

I talked to my W again when I went to the apartment to pick up a few things. I tried to not be so abrupt about it, but I again emphasized that I cannot imagine a situation where I can allow this child in my life.

She said that she cannot give up her child.

Even though I was somewhat prepared for that, from what I have read here, I am still disappointed that she would chose another man's child over me.

But, it makes my decision easier. I cannot live like that. I asked her to think about it, that abortion is not the only option, but though she said she would think about it, I don't think she will change her mind.

The OM is an old boy friend of hers. I was always leary of him. I somewhat suspect that she hopes by keeping the baby she has a chance to get him back.

Hopefully she will think about other options, but from what I have read on Marriage Builders, given that the A did not die a natural death, and that it has not been long since it ended, I am sure she still has strong feelings for him.

As I said, I have moved out, and unless I hear something different from her soon, will press ahead with a divorce.
Ray

Ray,

My heart goes out to you. As a mom of four children, all born within my marriage, I can say tht your wife thinks of this child as HER baby, not so much as THEIR baby. That's what makes this whole thing so hard.

While it is legitimate for you to be pained because you feel she is "choosing OM's child over me," it is just as legitimate for your wife to feel pained that you are forcing her to choose between HER child and her marriage. Right now, whether she still has feelings for OM or not (and it wouldn't be a surprise if she did), that might be a choice she can't make. Just as you can't make the choice to raise the child.

But given time, and proper counseling, one or both of you may come to see things differently in the future. There might be a way. It is just impossible to imagine that right now, I know.

I am glad you are getting legal help early, and support from your family. But your best bet for making a choice that you can live with for the rest of your life is to go into marital counseling with a counselor who is skilled in handling matters of infidelity and OC. Family tend to be protective of loved ones at any cost, and sometimes they can't be objective enough to be of concrete help. You might need more help, is what I am saying. Geez, after all I've been through (and it didn't include an OC), if you were my brother and came to me and told me this tale, I'd be walking you to the nearest court to file. But it wouldn't necessarily be the best thing for you. See my point?

God bless.

I have to disagree with Snowbell. Assuming you are certain that you are not the father, I would file for divorce and never look back. You are young, you have no children with WW, you don't have much time invested in the M, you don't own a house with WW, you don't have much money which would be an issue. I may feel differently about it if you had a history with her and other children were involved. But that's not the case. You are too young to take all this on when you have another option.

I know this is a Marriage Builders forum, but sometimes, even according to the Harleys, it is best not to continue in a M.

Michael

<small>[ December 14, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: MichaelinDallas ]</small>

I'd like to add one more thing. In time you may well see things differently and decide you want your M and are willing to raise OC. I would still recommend you do what you can legally to protect yourself. If M does not work out you don't want to be financially responsible for OC. If M does work out and you want to be a father to OC, you can always adopt him/her, and then you will be the father.

Michael

What are all the legal ramifications? I spoke to a lawyer about 1 mth ago and he told me they couldn't get to our retirement but that they could get cs. I took it he meant CS from my h income. He said that the OC could get retirement if nothing was put in the will saying upon h's death money would not go to any other living heirs. (Has H done a danged thing about it? NOOOOO) Anyway...

Although my h is in lala land and believes the ow that she will never ask for a dime or help, I know in my heart that 1) there will come a time when she needs something 2) there will come a time when the child finds out and 3)frankly I feel he needs to meet his responsibilities to this human being that will be living, breathing and needing come March.

The OW refuses prenatal tests and I know if she comes for money OR the state (very probable in my mind as she is a single mother and comes from a destitute family.) comes for money that then a test will be done.

I have had "helpful" people around me warning me of all sorts of stuff. The latest has been "protecting" myself financially. They say I must move quickly so they (OW and OC) can't get what I have worked so hard for. I know this is coming out greedy and all but I haven't worked for 20 years at two and three jobs at a time to have MY money taken and used for h's mistakes. I accept (although H is clueless) that his money will be going where he doesn't want it. I just want what is mine. Half of all our retirement and 1/2 of our stocks. I don't deserve to lose that. Frankly I feel I have lost enough.