This is the first time I have posted.

I have read here off and on for a long time.
For the purposes of this board, I am an OW with an OC. I say "for the purposes of this board" because my circumstances are very unusual. I really don't consider myself an OW, but society requires labels, so that's mine. I do post on the other board, and in all honesty I have had a run in or two with a few of you there, but that is "my" board, so it's allowed. Here, it is your board, and while I may have opinions, I wouldn't ever attack anyone here. I have never posted here because anytime I've wanted to, it has been out of anger. That is destructive, and rude, and that isn't what I want to accomplish.

So anyway, a few of the posts I read really got me thinking, and I decided to ramble for a while. Thank you in advance for indulging me.

Catnip said:
It is like being raped and having to pay your rapist for room and board and being forced into it.

That is precisely what happened to me (without the literal paying room and board).
I was sexually assaulted by a married man, and ended up with his child. Ok, now I'm sure you are all asking yourselves why I had the baby, why I didn't report it to the police..etc, and I would be happy to answer those questions if anyone cares to ask. I'm not going to go ito too much of that in this particular post though, because then I'd be typing for an hour. The short answer is a) I was in a long term relationship at the time, and had every reason to think the child was that mans, and b)other emotional circumstances in my life at the time made dealing with what happened unbearable for me, to the point that I completely ignored it's happening at all...until after my child was born and I found a wonderful therapist who helped me out a lot.

I just want to express the one thing I think almost everytime I read here...in most of these situations there is one man and two women (and sometimes the other way around) and neither woman is ever getting "the truth". I know for a fact that in my case, his wife knows ABSOLUTELY not ONE OUNCE of the truth. Not one. When his D-day happened, he lied through his teeth about EVERY aspect of the situaion. How was she to know he was lying, he was crying telling her how sorry he was and being so sincere..etc. He even went to MC with her, full well telling everyone BUT her that he was only going to appease her. He had no interest in it whatsoever.

Yes, I'm rambling. My point is that we deal with situations based on what we are told, not necessarily what is the truth.

Do I understand the EXTREME anger so many of you feel? Heck yes! Do I understand the EXTREME anger some OW's feel? Heck yes to that too.

But what it really comes down to is that the OW/OM, WS, and BS are all ADULTS WITH CHOICES. (well, I didn't have a "choice" per se, but you get the point) and it's the children who are left...
Are there circumstances where NC is best? Yes, I think there are ...VERY FEW. Most often I think it will leave a permanent scar, however deep, on the child left behind, and that breaks my heart.

And one other thing I feel I have to say...The notion I hear posted on repeatedly that the OW will meet a nice man who will love her and accept her child?...On what planet is that likely?? Not this one! Most men will RUN SCREAMING from a women with a child or children, ESPECIALLY one who doesn't have a father. Trust me, I know from personal experience.

There is more running through my head, but I'm rambling so I'll end this for the moment. The complexities of my personal situation are so much that I tend to have mixed feelings about a lot of the issues dealt with, by ALL parties involved...

Hey Catnip!!! Hello. Good responses, as usual!!!

Ohbratti: "Knowledge before the act severly diminishes any claim to unfair treatment" I 'm sure you also mean that for the OW too. Afterall if she knew he was married, and she gets pregnant she certainly can't cry unfair and whine about no contact and how the MM and his family turn their backs on the whole situation right? Also, she was JUST as aware of the possiblity of the pregnancy possibility too.

CeeCee: What about the responsibility of the OW? They are all so quick to blame MM and say "his marriage is his problem" Well, her child is her problem is it not? The BW owes that child nothing. And if the couple decide, together that they do not want to have anything to do with said child, the ow has a responsibility to herself to accept that.

Sofaraway: You are getting near that "oc feelings are all that matters" dialog. Sorry, that doesn't wash. The wife and children of the marriage are hurt also. Their feelings are just as valid and need to be addressed. The oc is just one of many who are hurt. OW has to hold herself 50% responsible for the pain and suffering that she helped create.

Go back and read a post a bit back. It was long about NC and the OC.

Wow. Things always go back to the perceived BW's responsibility? I was commenting on your comment about abortion being a choice that any woman can make to solve her "problem" (if it is even a problem).

Lets get to the basics.

Of course the bw owes nothing. Who ever said she did?

MM and OW are responsible for their actions and that should and often does include the consequences for their actions. Both of them, whether or not he can get pregnant. Fortunately for the innocent children, the law also recognizes his responsibilities despite his ability to give birth. Notice I said his and not his wife's. I believe that he should be held to a higher standard than to simply rewrite history or downplay his role in the big mess he helped create. By mess I don't mean the child. I mean the chaos and the shattered lives of those who loved him.

I believe the bw's role and which path she choses to take is her choice. Not duty rather choice. I do not feel the ws should be graced with that luxury.

I do believe it is the married man's responsibility to do his part to fix his marriage if the couple choses to do so. Likewise, it is his place to own responsibility for his actions and his choices and to that end, do what is right by his child. So, no, I don't think it's the woman's problem to figure out alone.

I realize that the bw is affected by him being held to the higher standard but as I mentioned earlier, if he is not held to that standard, what message does it send to these men who chose to lie and cheat? It's okay to leave the women in your life holding the bag? Hopefully it will be a lesson that will forever deter them from making such choices in the future.

Like I said, Lynn, no gender bias. If someone goes into a situation KNOWING what the outcome could be, then any rational/reasonable defense they may have had is greatly reduced if not nullified completely. Additionally, any claim to unfair treatment would not be credible. How can anyone say they are/were treated unfairly when they knew BEFOREHAND, what the end result could be? This goes for MM and OW alike. It's like a kid getting put on restriction for bad behavior. The kid knows what will happen, yet persists in making poor choices. Then they whine and complain about how unfair the consequence is (I'm going through this right now with my friend's 13 y/o daughter...now my pseudo-foster daughter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Anyway, I firmly believe that EVERYONE should be accountable for their choices. Yeah, sometimes the consequences really, really suck, but we should have thought of that before we followed through. After the fact is just too late.

OB1

It makes me think about the accomplice in a bank robbery.

He drove the getaway car, pulled up front waiting for the robbers to come out with the loot, when they did, he sped away.

No, he didn't shoot and kill the bank manager or 2 tellers, but he drove the car with the 2 guys with the guns.

What did he think could happen? Should we let him off the hook because he didn't plan to kill anyone?

Lynn,

When did I turn it into a NC post?? I didn't. I have opinions on the topic, but they aren't relevant here.

Sofaraway: You are getting near that "oc feelings are all that matters" dialog. Sorry, that doesn't wash .

When did I say that?? I said "the children" NOT the OC.

The wife and children of the marriage are hurt also. Their feelings are just as valid and need to be addressed.
If you look at my post, I said I fully understood that.

Ya know, there are an awful lot of former OW's I have a lot of respect, admiration and fondness for here on our site and I want to make it abundantly clear that I never think of them as former OW's, but valuable resources of information and friendship that has developed over the years.

There are two here that had no idea of XMM's marital status, completely duped, entirely innocent and are victims themselves. I don't see them as OW but victims of deception. We have a couple former OW's rebuilding their marriages and we are watching their family grow and their marriages recover before our very eyes. I never think of them as OW's either but instead, women dedicated to rebuilding their marriages. We rejoice in their accomplishments and worry and pray for their kids when they have to have surgery or deal with life's difficulties because they kind of become our kids too. Another former OW is "the other half to a whole" and her husband is the primary poster, but we have come to love her as well. We've got one gal who gives us a lot of insight of what life is like for her adult OC son and offers her incredible wisdom and participation and has been here I think almost as long as I have. There is a great gal that I have developed a special relationship borne out of conflict. We fought bitterly with each other here on this site (it was horrible!) but have found some common ground and have an interesting bond/friendship that has come to mean a great deal.

There are others who are oldtimers and have become a cherised part of this family, being here with us forever and a couple newcomers that are extremely gracious and respectful of our forum.

Sometimes things are said that are difficult to hear, but we all need to know that it needs to be said, that it is not directed to anyone here personally and whatever the issue, it only pertains to our own individual situation. I don't want the former OW's (I really hate that term with reference to our own members that we all know so well) to feel unwelcome or chased off the site because they have so much to offer...and besides, we would miss them. And I don't want to see anyone to beat up on anyone for their opinions or take needless offense to things said. I apologize to Cee Cee for the soapbox remark.

On the flip side, I think that we should be just as tolerant of Betrayeds who have strong opinions and understand that newcomers reeling in pain and needing to hear certain information to protect themselves and need validation for their feelings...including rage and grief...and not get all worked into a frenzy over some of the harsh things said; because it isn't personally directed to anyone here...it is information that is valuable and necessary to get through those first few months after D-day.

Did I ever reveal my recipe for Rhubard Bread? I know I gave it to Mom of Five...if anyone else is interested, I'll post it. It's an amazing recipe made with real buttermilk...people go crazy for it.

I really love you people...you have given me so much comfort, joy, care and concern, insight and education. There are no words to describe my gratitude for the gifts of "healing" you are responsible for in my life...no words are adequate.

Cat =^^=

Very well said, catnip. It's good to put things into the proper perspective. We need that a lot of times around here, thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I for one would love your rhubarb recipe. I have many fond Memorial Day memories of my Mom making the first rhubarb pie of the season...yummmm!

I did want to add though, (although I know this thread was not meant to be about abortion, and although women may have been the primary pursuers of legalized abortion), that Roe v. Wade was upheld by an all men Supreme Court, (7-2, I believe).

Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting, however I've lurked here for quite sometime. I don't have time to post my background but I am a BW with an OC and we also have a child together. His A lasted for about a year before everything blew up in his face because of the OC situation. That's a long story in itself.

What I really want to address is these type of posts andhow discouraging they are to the people that really are trying to make progress with their situations and marriages. Like I said, I have lurked here for quite awhile and have become enraged by some of the posts made by posters such as LynnG. The sadistic conduct of these people is scary and doesn't help anyone with rebuilding their relationships. It seems as if they post only to instigate conflict.

LynnG, you should really get some help with your anger issues. Maybe if you started by not living out the distant past everyday and then coming here hindering progress for the other people. You often speak about how the OW has "ruined" lives - well, perhaps you should look at yourself for a moment. You come here with your bootleg legal advice, preach loudly regarding what you think everyone should do, but have you considered that fact that you aren't a lawyer!?! Think about other people on this board, we are all hurting but you may be setting some people up for failure by pushing your backdoor legal views on them as gospel.

I hope everyone here finds peace and happiness in their lives no matter what the circumstances are, that includes you LynnG. When I have a little more time I'll post the ins-and-outs of my situation. Take care and please don't mistake my post for a flame, it isn't.

Birdie

Welcome. You are angry and venting. That's OK. Lynn has been angry and has vented and that should be OK. For some reason it isn't to a few people here...and I don't get it. Is it her delivery that gets some of you all upset? Because, I have basically said the same things here, have been really opinionated and no one treats me the way some of you treat Lynn.

Her advice is extremely valuable and if it does not serve you, ignore her posts. Just take what you like and leave the rest. Is she really THAT powerful to lead you away from you goals, your healing and powerful enough to jeopardize your recovery?

The things you ar accusing her of are for saying the same things most of us have said at one time or another right here on this site. We ALL need anger management, Birdie...especially in the beginning. Even you, I bet. Try to see her message, her intent and the overall logic and try to ignore the harsh delivery and don't let it get in the way of your mission to recover...or just don't bother reading her posts. See her name, change the game and go to another thread.

I guess I just don't get the outrage over Lynn who is obviously just trying to help and validate when we have so much worse to deal with. Why would any of us get petty and picky over Lynn's delivery when some of us have our lives in shreds and monumental things to deal with besides the symantics of a strong poster with strong opinions. Her advice is sound whether you care to admit it or not.

I'm sorry her strength and logic offends you. I admit her delivery can be very abrasive but I know why she is doing it this way...there is a method to her madness...to shake up the newcomers who are allowing their WS to run roughshod over them and to snap them out of their complacency. What works for some doesn't work for others.

I'm not sure where this topic is going, but I want to play too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

In OK adultery is a felony offense. Several other states have it has a felony offense also.
I don't think it's a charge often pursued, but the option is there. It a fit of anger one night, I threw that in my WS face. The look on his face was priceless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Also, in OK, there is a time after the divorce when a person cannot live with someone.
The divorce is final in 30-90 days, but for 6 months after the divorce is final neither party can marry or cohabitate with another except the ex-spouse. If they do, it's considered bigamy, another punishable offense. If my WS pursues a D, I plan on using this law to my benefit.

As for who is at fault. Both parties knowingly slept together without taking precautions to prevent pregnancy. I love my sister-in-laws "statement" "If you're not preventing, you're planning".
When my WS told me the OW was pregnant, I hit the roof. "You STUPID MF...we have 4 children, you KNOW how they get here" "I thought she was on the pill...I didn't..." I'm not going to say what he said he didn't do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When we found out she was pregnant, it was too late for the Morning After Pill, had I have no problem with it. When taken properly, the pill prevents the egg from being fertilized. If the egg is fertilized, it prevents it from implanting. If the egg has implanted, it does nothing and the pregnancy continues as normal.

I've been reading here for months, and I've read almost all of LynnG's post. While I agree she is angry, I think she has a right to be.
I don't always agree with what she says, but I have been able to draw some strength from her words.

Well gosh darn little Birdie, If feel so bad. NOT. I have lived what many of these Newbies are living. If it was not for the strentgh of others at that time, it would have been real easy for me to sit on my couch and cry into my pillows at the situation. However, it is a luxury nobody can afford at this crucial time. These women and some men have been hit with a truck full of lies. Just who do you think they should trust? Their spouse? Sorry darlin, that trust was smashed. Should they sit back and let the OW with the OC make all the plans and control the entire family? You know, plan on child support, how much, want dear old daddy to come and play with OC on weekends? No matter what she wants?

These situations don't happen in a church. The affair has left many people hurt and full of confusion and rage. By sitting back and doing nothing will just get you run over again. Sorry if my manner offends you. But, when I hear how others are afraid and to weary to pull themselves up, yeah, I do get angry. Angry cause her/his spouse has sucker punched them and they need to know a few things. I hate seeing people in pain.

I have stated over and over and over, probably 1000 times GET A GOOD LAYWER. That is first and foremost. I do not dispense legal advice, just advocate it to the 9th degree. GET A GOOD LAYWER. This works two fold. 1. It has, can, and will protect the innocent victims of two peoples destructive behavior. 2. It shows your spouse you are dead serious and are not going to play games. The only people who would be afraid of strong legal advice would be those who would be on the losing end. Would that not be the cheating spouse and the lover?

Sorry, the hurt spouse has rights too. They need to see that.


Empowering the hurt person to stand up and say: This is what I need, this is what I want is not a bad thing. It actually puts all parties on notice that reality has hit the fan. If this makes those responsible for the destruction uncomfortable, so be it. They created the mess, the also have to trudge through the muck that they are expecting others to live in.

If you think it is reality for the presence of OC's and affairs to all be handled in a nice and friendly manner, you live in a dream world. The reality is the situation is fraught with emotions that run the gamut every day. The other reality is the sooner a BS stands up for themselves, makes plans, thinks about what they will or will not accept, can any real healing take place.

So yeah, I get riled up cause I want to light the fire under their butts. Let them know that it is ok to be madd. It is ok to say what they need, cause this is their life. They are allowed to make decisions for themselves and their children based soley on what they want. They do not have to sit back and be a sucker to anyone.

They do not have to feel guilty one little bit if they choose no contact. They have a right to tell their husbands that. Why not? What kind of marriage would it be if they sat back, afraid to speak their mind? Would that be an honest way to start a rebuilding? It also works the other way too, if a husband truly wants to see oc and doesn't only to please his wife. He too will grow resentment in his heart. STAND UP HASH IT OUT. Hence the POJA.

But above all, don't sit back and let the tail wag the dog. This all goes by so fast. Haven't other people created enough havoc in their day to day life as it is?

So, sorry, but I will always and 100% support and stand up for the Betrayed spouses. Some here are farther along and not as wounded. Others are completely heartbroken and crestfallen. Scared and Unsure. They desereve to know that not only has this happened to others, but that others have lived through it and survived. Have thrived and lived good lives. That they do have choices and they do have rights.

If I sound tough, it is cause I am. If I sound mean, so be it. I consider each and every betrayed spouse here a cyber friend. As in my own life, if someone hurts a friend, I will stand by that friend 100%, as they do for me. When I was in the pits of despair, others took care of me and forced me out of my cocoon, dragged me to a laywer, got met living again. Encouraged me to say what I wanted and needed. They took care of me by kicking my butt back into the world of the living. Only then did I regaing a sense of self. A sense of balance. Not by sitting on my couch with tissue and blubbering on the shoulders of my friends and family.

So call me mean and cruel, I can take it. No skin off my nose. But I will stand by my views that the mean and cruel people are the ones who have affairs and cause all the destruction in the first place. Husbands, Wives, children (and yes that includes the oc) are all treated meanly and cruely by two people.

I hope you can find peace too.

I find it interesting that this thread has meandered around and gotten far away from what the original poster asked.
Did anyone successfully sue the OP?

That said, then someone decided to criticise Lynn G.
The purpose of the board is to rebuild marriages. Lynn G has given a lot of good advice to those in the first throes of dealing with a cheating spouse. I can't believe there is anyone here who hasn't dealt with the pain that one feels when the affair is exposed.
The BS is reeling from the pain, the shock, the devastation, etc. she has to cope with the most horrific situation a spouse can find oneself in.
ONe doesn't know whom to turn, whom to trust, and some wonder if it is even worth continuing to live. Their spouse has done the unthinkable.
Here we listen and say "amen" because we have been there. We know the first steps that often help the BS get their lives back together.
There are no manuals for dealing with an OP or an OC. There are books to help deal with an affair, but not with an OC attached to the OW.
So this imperfect board helps those in pain looking to create a new marriage out of the ashes of the old one. We give stength and encouragement. We share what worked for us and hope it works for others. We offer a shoulder to cry on, we offer an ear for a rant.
If anyone has a problem with that, don't read it. But don't attack those that are trying to help the ones coming here for help.

Texasgirl