what did you mean in the private board thread:

"I hope your weekend was terrible and your H knows!!!"

I don't THINK you meant anything mean by it....did you? I'm confused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I meant that if it were horrible that you would be honest kt!

If you want your former life then go for it!

I'll be here a short while longer...
love
Debi

well I don't anticipate the weekend being horrible. It's honestly fine when OC is here with us. Honest to goodness fine if not great. It's that da**ed mother of hers!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It's easy for me to communicate how I feel, usually. Maybe too easy. My H on the other hand...clams up....I am realizing that I can't push him to open up or else he backs away further......which is very hard for me to comprehend..LOL..why would you NOT want to share your feelings/thoughts/ideas???lol H says I ask for too many details (about everything and anything) for him to keep up with! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's hard for me to think about the "former life". B4 A it was not that good. After A but B4 C w/OC it was REALLY good but then w/C....... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> we're working our way back.

I'm kind of tired of hearing about the need for C around here. I must admit, when I first came here I felt guilty for NOT wanting it and the views around here influencing that notion.....

I don't feel so bad about that now and maybe because I can honestly say we have been trying. We've put in so much effort and it has cost us alot...emotionally, mentally, physically AND financially. And I keep thinking the deeper and farther we are INTO C the harder it will be to ever, if ever, get out. 20 months, I think, is a long time to be "fighting" over a child, that you've only known for the same amount of time.

Now I am just sooo tired of it all, I think it might just be spite that keeps me going. I mean, contrary to popular belief, I think OC would be perfectly fine with out us in her life. Unless of course OW paints a "specific picture" for OC, which I don't think she is above doing. I wish she would move away from us so we could say, "oh well, see ya".


I hate to think the description of our lives is the fact of having OC. Like when people look @ us that is all they can see----the couple with the OC---!!

uh oh...I think I restarted my pity party. Well, then time to focus on my oldest BC 11 year b-day party tomorrow!!!! "secret agent" party no less. He's a doll. He invited 15 boys <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and I'm planning a scavenger hunt. I should be a party co-ordinator (at least that's what my mom says! LOL)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktbunch:
<strong>

It's hard for me to think about the "former life". B4 A it was not that good. After A but B4 C w/OC it was REALLY good but then w/C....... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> we're working our way back.

=^^= That's why so many here push for NC the first year especially. You need that time to keep the recovery momentum going...not recover just a little only to have it thwarted midway to incorporate something that is not healthy for you to have in your life...then instead of progress, it becomes a regression.

I'm kind of tired of hearing about the need for C around here. I must admit, when I first came here I felt guilty for NOT wanting it and the views around here influencing that notion.....

=^^= Well, I think that was mostly from OW's coming here from the "other board" mouthing off here where they had no business pushing their opinions and agenda. Newbies often don't know the difference between Betrayeds and OW's when they first get here. When Lynn came here, her strong opinons pushing for NC were very helpful because it gave the Newbies another option besides the persistent mewlings for C. Just watch that MISPLACED guilt. Remember, YOU had nothing to do with any of this...this is not and was not your doing and is not your obligation or responsibility. If you are going along with C then you are one hell of a gal, but this is costing you and this C might be at your expense and that of your own BC's, so weigh the varibles carefully.

I don't feel so bad about that now and maybe because I can honestly say we have been trying. We've put in so much effort and it has cost us alot...emotionally, mentally, physically AND financially.

=^^= You and your H will have to ask yourselves if this is good for the C and if this is good for your marriage. C is almost always a horribl, horrible strain and most Betrayeds abandon C after having to deal with OW"s like yours. They (most OW's-not all) certainly have a knack for destroying any incentive you might have had to welcome this OC into your lives.

20 months, I think, is a long time to be "fighting" over a child, that you've only known for the same amount of time.

=^^= The more you talk, the more destructive this arrangement sounds for everyone concerned.

Now I am just sooo tired of it all, I think it might just be spite that keeps me going.

=^^= That is a horrible reason to do this and I hope that you're either kidding or that it's just a teeny part of it because that will cause this whole thing to backfire in your face. All this energy and all this precious recovery time is being spent in high drama and angst over this...it just ain't worth it and not helpful to your marriage at all. Not right now anyway. If she is only 20 months, take 6 months away and regroup with your marriage and focus on your hsuband and THEN consider whether or not C will work or not. Together with a POJA.

I hate to think the description of our lives is the fact of having OC. Like when people look @ us that is all they can see----the couple with the OC---!!

=^^= Why? Do you wear a sign saying "this is not my kid but a product of my H's betrayal?" How does anyone know this is not your kid when you are out among strangers?

I'm planning a scavenger hunt. I should be a party co-ordinator

=^^= Have fun tomorrow and while you're hiding things for the kids, hide something fun for your husband in the bedroom too (wink) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

ktbunch,
That certainly is a long time and it also delays the healing of the two of you.

I would think the exhaustion and emotions that are happening to you and your H are a good indication something has to give!

Enough is enough. You both only have one life together and you should begin to arise from this trauma with a discussion about OC.

Life will go on for OC. You guys have to go on and do what is best for all of you.

Blessings...

love
Debi

clarification: OC is 6 yo but we have known her for 20 months. (and to make it more confusing we have a 20 month old d <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

You are all right.

H said he will take this weekend to "think" about situation---(that does not mean discuss)---I think he thinks we've "discussed" all there is to discuss and now it's just up to him to really be honest with himself about the whole thing.

That's when/where I get confused because I do feel guilty FOR OC. Why is that? I think maybe I'm just being selfish, which some would say I am but i don't care about them. Then @ the same time I think I have a RIGHT to be selfish if it means protecting my marriage and family for MY BC AND myself.

And then again, my good friends will say it's neither, it's my H making the BEST decision for OUR family and marriage and to stay out of it.

When things are rough I think--I'VE HAD ENOUGH--but when things cool off I think--well, I can handle it awhile longer. That is what drives me crazy and then I think---how much more of this UP and DOWN stuff.

You guys have been great. It's nice to hear support and encouragement. Even when I'm jsut sounding off.

ANd I like to come here to encourage those who are new to this struggle but...man....just when I think we are getting back on track....

cat....I don't wear a sign...I meant like about our friends thinking that. I don't tell strangers anything. That's why we are all just known as the "ktbunch", it's kt and and her bunch o' kids! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

*****
Survived the party! 11 eleven yo boys, 1 scavenger hunt, a "pee-your-pants-funny" relay race, individual obstacle course, 5 pizzas, water-gun fight and a secret mission accomplished! Nothing broken, no tempers, no fights, NO RAIN and a really happy son (finally) and lots of impressed parents! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yep, I have to go thank my H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ktbunch,
I'm happy you survived the party and it sounded like your son did too.

All I want to say is that it is not just your H's decision as for what to do about oc. It's both of yours. You can give reasons why and why not and so can your H. Then talk it over.

This is really a life altering decision and it will affect everyones lives all around.

Good luck and keep us posted.

love
Debi

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ktbunch:
<strong> clarification: OC is 6 yo but we have known her for 20 months. (and to make it more confusing we have a 20 month old d <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

=^^= OH!!!! OK...got it. OC = 6 years old. Girl? Boy? Do you like him/her? Nice kid?

*****
Survived the party! 11 eleven yo boys, 1 scavenger hunt, a "pee-your-pants-funny" relay race, and a really happy son (finally) and lots of impressed parents!

=^^= Wow! A HUGE success! I would have LOVED seeing that relay race. Doesn't it warm your heart to see your son so happy?

Yep, I have to go thank my H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

=^^= Oh, really....? Hahaha
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

female OC. WEll behaved mostly, normal, very social. Overall personality doesn't feel "meshed" with the rest of our family yet.

I know how important this "decision" can be and I give more than my 2 cents about it but it's hard for me not to be "pushy". So I try to give my O followed by, I support whatever decision YOU make. That's all I mean. Otherwise, if I demand a position, not only can it be held against me, but I might doubt if it was the right one.

I DID tell H that I did not want to keep C if we were not going to at least try and pursue OW legally over contempt because then I feel we are @ her mercy, whenever the mood strikes her. Seriously, that would be a dangerous situation for us because "technically" after what she said last time about it NOT being the visitation agreement but the calender was just H "availability", she can say that whenever she wants then. She can say that about ANY day.

This is what we have been "fighting" over/for----clarity. I am of the opinion that if our agreement is CLEAR and PRECISE then there will be no arguements because it's all on paper, a court order (I don't know where that optimism comes from or amybe a glutton for punishment). Just when we think it is soooo clear OW finds some way to still manipulate it.

I think H will @ least call legal aid today and find out how to file contempt charges and hopefully it will not cost that much. I'll keep you posted.

update: H did call legal aid and after being on hold for 36 minutes (the recording said the wait timewas 30) it finally rang and then someone finally picked up and hung it up! So then H just called a different lawyer and we have a consultation Thursday.

I think that will be a waste of time since we can not afford another lawyer right now. H is hoping the lawyer will just tell us how to do it ourselves and the necessary details of filing contempt ourselves, what to expect. This one advertises to be a christian (which we are).

If/when I ever have the $$$, I would like to find/hire a really aggressive lawyer who isn't afraid to step into a court room and fight FOR us, his actual clients. One who will look out for OUR needs not OW and not just want us to "agree" for the sake of agreeing!

kt:
I've been following your story and would like to help you if I can. (I'm an attorney). What state are you in?

e.

We are in Southern CA.

I try to do most of the research myself and/or go to the do it yourself sites. I printed the forms off of a website and it came with instructions to fill out the forms but the details...??? filing fee?

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

kt:
I'm in a different state, but if you just need details, filing fees etc. you should be able to call up your local clerk of courts to get that kind of info.
Also, try the local bar association. A lot of times they give referrals with either free or low cost consultations. You can perhaps get advice with how to proceed pro se .
Is your next step amending the visitation?

e.

arghhh!! oops

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

awe man! too bad. Apparently the sun cost more over here anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

By "amend" do you mean going back to court to change the parenting agreement? Are you referring to the fact that we have an entire calender and OW says it's not the schedule? I guess we should but if we go back to court, OW will just say the same thing to the judge and will NOT agree to it so....then what? We are in the same position.

And what are the chances that a judge will even see it our way with the contempt charges? Judge could just see it OW's way and that she was "confused" blah blah blah.

The ORIGINAL reason for this last hearing(Nov. 2003) was....
We wanted to see OC more often (had no holidays except Christmas day)AND there were some scheduling conflicts (BC had school events) but OW was unwilling to change schedule EVER for any reason and was saying only H could transport OC (and OW refused to do any transportaion). So we spoke w/ lawyer who told us to write letter to OW stating that lawyer suggests OW get a lawyer BUT that we work it out ourselves privately, and that AVOIDING court would be in the best interests of OC. Right after that, last April(2003), OW filed papers (OSC, with lawyer) to revoke joint legal/physical custody and proposing a wacky holiday schedule (like OC going home EARLY on Father's day to spend time w/ grandpa!)

My point is....in her affidavit, OW said she was taken advantage of by the mediator (of the court)and my H. They both "pressured" her into the previous agreement(filed Oct. 2002) and took advantage of the fact that she did not know the law, that H "threatened" to take her to court if she did not agree with him. That OC was emotionally unstable due to the fact that H was now in her life, that I NOT be allowed to be alone w/ OC because I had been "rude and defensive" and this was not good for OC.

So THIS original filing last April(2003), is the one we just got worked out and officially filed in Nov(2003).

THIS is the kind of person we are dealing with here!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

So I don't trust her passive-agressive ways @ all. I try to be on my guard when OW is "nice" and am always suspicious of what OW is up to.

We have this other stupid issue about OC school that we do not agree about....ugh!!!

But if Judge would see it our way in the contempt category then....a small victory and maybe OW will stop playing games.

And I'm sure we could still file for and get approved for a fee waiver. We just did for CS hearing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

Is any one around? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Another update:
Spoke to different lawyer today. Took one look @ our "parenting agreement" and practically burst out laughing. He said it was "a bunch of junk". Apparently our lawyers (OW & ours) were pretty lazy and the paperwork they allowed us to use in our "parenting agreement" would be considered just notes!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

He gave us some recommendations, to have it retyped in "court language" blah blah blah and bring it to the CS hearing and try to get THAT judge to sign it as an order. TO tell that judge that we need an order that is "enforceable". He said to send the retyped copy to OW lawyer to sign off on, although he doubts he would because it is in such language that is not "legal-eze" and probably would not understnad the original agreement any way.

ARGHHH!!!! I am so frustrated. I just wanted to cry in his office right there. We didn't go into details with him because I think we both knew it would be a waste of time. I did explain that we are trying to get it so detailed to not have any problems and that it's been "ugly" and he said, "Well, of course it's ugly, it's always ugly or else you would be married to OW". I did not correct him that H was ALREADY married to ME!!!! I almost lost it @ that point!!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It just seems so hopeless and I feel like I am all alone and NO ONE is looking out for ME and MY KIDS!!!!!!!! It's always about OW and OC.

My H says I am just being "negative" and not focusing on the positive and what we "have" which is "each other".

I feel like this is an impossible situation with NO WAY out and no solution.

OW has the state and my H providing for OC and the DA making sure OC gets all she's "entitled" to and who is there protecting me and my kids? OW says every step she takes she is moving "forward" w/ OC. I feel like I am being PUSHED BACK w/ MY children.

I feel like ALL my hopes, dreams and goals are being torn away from me bit by bit. I try to stay positive and think positive but.....it's harder and harder to.

I feel like I am being pushed out of my house and into the work force taking away the life I had and wanted for my family. When H tried to claim a hardship (@ first CS hearing for 2 kids and one on the way) the judge said I could go get a job! So I did.

Our lifestyle is to home-educate our children, (for many different reasons that i don't want to go into right here) So for me to go OUT into the workforce would take that all away. I am blessed to be able to work part-time from home but it's not much $$. AND I don't have marketable skills to be able to make enough $$$ for it to be worth working outside my home even if I wanted to right now.

H says he will take care of it all. He said he will get it all typed up like lawyer suggested and all taken care of. He says I am only focusing on the past and being negative and I should be positive and blah blah blah. I keep getting my hopes up and be positive about our future but it seems so bleak!

Maybe the CS hearing will go well. That's in a few weeks.

But, it's not bleak! Really, KT. It DOES get better if you hang in there long enough.

Five years ago, I lost my business and was forced to file business bankruptcy. That effected us financially where we almost lost our house and we almost went into foreclosure. Life for us was difficult and a struggle every minute of every day for years.

Bipolar was still very sick, couldn't maintain sobriety for any length of time and he was being garnished (when he could work) to the tune of up to almost 100% of his wages at one point. It sure sucked to get that $25.00 paycheck after the courts extorted that enormous amount and having all those bills and no food, no gas, no meds for Bipolar. We've had monsterous legal issues (and legal fees) fighting with a family court several states away that still refuses to look at our financials and still takes $1500 each month when according to Bipolar's wages, should only be getting about $500 a month...we even begged the court to audit us to prove our situation and they continue to refuse this despite the glaring and overwhelming evidence to the contrary and continue the garnishments.

We even divorced three years ago so he could transfer title to me because OW was insisting on his share of our equity in our house in addition to receiving three times more than she is entitled to. We moved and rented out our house so the tenants would make the mortgage payments and save our house from foreclosure. I got a job as a property manager and got an apartment (in lieu of wages) just to have a place to live while we recovered from the devastation we experienced from my hsuband's illness and the things he did while he was sick (OW/OC, business bankruptcy, redckelss behaviors, etc)

After three and a half years things started turning around for us. The pressure was lightening up not having to worry about a mortgage payment and he stopped drinking, took his meds, worked steadily and worked a lot of OT and we were able to get our bills paid and move back into our house. Now I am in school and will be finished with tests next week and I have a job lined up for March. A very good paying job.

Bipolar is getting healthier each day and our marriage is recovering and life is pretty dang good despite what we went through for almost four years. We have survived all of it and come out on the other side. Who woulda thought?

So, KT, it DOES get better and the bad stuff does go away in time.

Catnip =^^=

Honey, you are done. Finished. You have had enough. One thing struck me, you say you give him your opinion, then tell him you will support whatever he wishes???????????????????? STOP THAT.

What would happen if you looked him in the eye, held his hand and said "no more, I can't have contact with ow or oc anymore. I have been hurt to the core of my being, I have had to spend hours and hours catering to the whims of others at the expense of my families needs and my own. I feel that for our own sanity and well being that we stop all contact and move on with our lives"

If you said that, what would happen? Is your husband enthusiastic about visitation? Or is he one who is just "doing the right thing" even though it really is just causing trauma all over the place?

I think you sound as if you are at your breaking point. You have had enough. Let him know that.

Sweetie, I worry about you. By trying to do "the right thing" and "support his decision" where are your feelings in all of this? Who is putting your needs first? You certainly aren't. You are supporting whatever he wants.


You are mired in the courts, fighting over visitation of a child that isn't even melded into your family. The time and money spent on this could be better used for a night out with just you and your husband.

You feel that everyone is looking out for OW/OC and not you? Well, then you need to look out for you and your kids. STOP THE MADNESS. STOP CONTACT.

I swear, give it a month and you will find peace entering your life again. Try it.

Until then, here is a hug ((( )))) you need one.

OH, and your party sounded fab!!! You sure seem like a great mother and what a kind and decent lady too. Your husband is lucky you are willing to work this out. Just don't lose you in the process.

KT:
Is there a way I could get your email address so we could write to each other?
Let me know.

e.

<small>[ February 02, 2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>