I understand where you are coming from BBYG. You want a clear cut decison made and things to start now.

I think your H wants to make it work but can't figure out how--not that we haven't tried to get help etc but they seem to have figure it out on their own. I'm not sure what to say but to say that it is baby steps and I think you are making them and it takes a long time to repair the damage which took along time but recovery seems to be twice as long as it took to destroy everything.

Just my thoughts but I would say that the 180's and non-LB's are helping but it takes time.

Those are my thoughts for you and oh yes--keep taking of yourself and doing things for yourself.

Any thoughts or comments for me?

Hey Girls,

Getting caught up on the posts. I am not doing all that great, but I am never really. I wrote H a letter today just expressing to him that I don't have any more to give and don't see a future for our M. I can get no assistance from him on working on it. H says he wants it to work but does nothing to get it straight. All I can go on is his actions.

h thinks that buying things for the house and paying the bill that means he's trying, but excuse me those are things that he is suppose to do. We are his responsibility! Buying gifts and coming home everynight to play with the kids is not trying. I am tired of living in limbo. I am so tired.

I am also tired of repeating myself, I feel like he is just doing whatever he wants to do. I depend on him to help with the bills aand the kids but I am strained when it comes to us. I get nothing or tid bits every now and then. I do not feel like this is a mariage.

I know all of you are doing your best and have your own set of issues to deal with along with your marriages, but I appreciate the ear.

I don't think i am that strong anymore. I don't want to wait any longer for someone to love me. I want to be loved as a maariage should be. My kids do deserve to have their father in the home, but shouldn't that home be a happy one?

I am not happy - and am unsure if he can even make happy. I wanted to be married and have kids, well I got what I wanted. Sometimes the Lord will give us what we ask for, but that does not necessarily mean that it is what we need!!
I am not sure that he is the one that I am suppose to be with anymore. Maybe he never was!

What do I do now - there is no othe alternarive is there?

JT

Sorry to sound so down, I am praying for each of you.
Have a blessed day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

JT2~please hang in there--I think that it is a bad day today and tomorrow you may feel differently but again only you know when you have had enough.

However, I will encourage yout to stay tough and fight for your family for you and your children--don't give up.

Take care of yourself and the children. Also, don't rule out a PB--then you know you have done all that you can and remember that PB's can take awhile from what I understand.

Good Luck-and I say a prayer for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think your H wants to make it work but can't figure out how--not that we haven't tried to get help etc but they seem to have figure it out on their own. I'm not sure what to say but to say that it is baby steps and I think you are making them and it takes a long time to repair the damage which took along time but recovery seems to be twice as long as it took to destroy everything.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Albany, I agree that it will take a long time to repair the damage that has been caused, & I know there are things I need to work on, things that played a part in this coming to past, I found by reading some old posts on another board that always showing my H the pain he caused me most likely makes him turn away from our M, maybe he is overcome by guilt & shame, he told me once while we were separated that he felt unworthy of me, that is how he acted yesterday. I guess I am just feeling tired, like I have been doing this dance too long & I need to sit down & rest. I feel like giving myself a deadline & that may not be a good thing either. I just feel lost.

I am not sure what to tell you right now about your situation, do you feel that Plan A & a little 180's is still working for you? You don't sound like you r ready to PB. H seems like he still wants to fence sit. As I have thought all along YOU are going to have to make a move that shakes him up, - Plan B?????

JT,

I agree with what Albany said to you. R you going to give your H the ltr. you wrote? I know how it feels to repeat things over & over, so you may as well stop, maybe you can try to do the 180's if you are not ready to Plan B.

You can't let this overwhelm you, you have your kids to think about, I know you are tired that is why you need to decide on a plan & follow it for YOU.

Keep praying & let God lead you.

BBYG

Now that my Dad knows my H is acted differently--as you think in your relationship-I also think that my H was too guilty and ashamed to stay--that he couldn't face people knowing etc. and didn't think those people would do well with him. Personally I think that people would have more respect if stayed in our marriage rather than ditching us and going on his own because he does not want to deal with OW (go to her).

I'm trying to 180 and not really even PA--trying to distance myself from him right now. It is up to him--I have done what I can and I need some me time.

BBYG,

I have not done a good plan a yet, but find it hard to do a plan b. H is not living with us at this time because I threw him out when I first found out about the A, but H comes by the house every night and checks on us the kids and everything, and leaves later to go the hotel.

He comes and goes as he pleases. I don't want to lock him out again because I do need his support at this time to cover all of the bills of the house and the children. So how do I do a plan B when he is still so involved in our everyday lives and right now he has to be unless we go to an attny and get some sort of resolution ar agreement. I am ready to do that but he thinks that I am just angry. I think he beleives that I will not let him go.

He states that "I know you love me just as much as I love you and I'm not going anywhere. I am not letting you go". But I just don't see that to be true. He states that he is trying and things have been better but we never discuss the issue at hand - OW/OC!!

I have sent the letter via - mail!
I don't know what else to do sso I am trying the 180 list now. I will not engage in any conversation with him unless it invoves the children. I will not do any wifely duties as far as cooking for him unless there is some left over from the children's dinner, and even then I will not leave it out for him.

I am just trying to get him to see that I am serious and am not going to wait forever for some resolution to our problem.

Not another moment!

What else can I do!!

JT

Hey girls - I talked to H tonight briefly about what went on w/ OW when he took her out to eat. He said OW taped note to apt door and wanted to meet to discuss OC. Said she wanted to know if he had decided anything yet. Gave him a deadline of Friday to decide if he wanted to be with her. I just lost it. I said can't you see how she is manipulating you, etc. etc. Said he had thought of moving things home while kids and I are away over weekend. Now he is confused again. She is just tightening the noose around his neck. Do it her way or else. H realizes this, but he is worried about OC and how our kids will accept this OC. I said they are young we don't need to explain it all to them now. Anyway, I guess maybe I will know Friday if I have a chance w/ M anymore. I just can't believe he would fall for all this manipulation - I think he understands what she is doing, yet still confused. I will never understand what he sees in her. I told him he should have just ended it all right there and tell her that his W is a much better woman than she is - don't think he appreciated my opinion. I felt a little hope that he was actually considering moving home. Yet, why all the confusion again???

Keep me in your prayers.

It's so ahrd to respond because it's hard to keep track of everyone, but I will try.

A few things stood out:

JT2: God wants to bless you. God did plan on your H being w/ you, HE chose you for him & him for you. Once you got married, took your vows, that was it, it sealed the deal and God's plan. Yes, you have a choice to change it but don't doubt God's will for your life. His will is to stay married to your spouse but if yourspouse chooses something different then.....it's not on you.

I am going to post an update on my book suggestion---go read it----it was really enlightening and encouraging about these trials we go through.

Krism: why our spouses can not be open and honest from the get go I will never know and can only HOPE that H is honest w/ me now. But I think part of it is still the lingering selfishness that exists in the WS heart and mind. A was all about WS, lieing about it? same reason. They are only thinking about themselves, WS doesn't want to 'deal' w/ it, think about 'it', talk about it, whatever, they just wnat what they want.

The good news is that WS is coming out of it by being honest w/ you after discovery of the ommission. Telling you more details is a good sign and it will encourage more honesty if you can react calmly & cooly. It sounds kind of dumb to have to ignore the lying and praise the honesty (when it happens) but it will work. You are the stronger one right now (really you are, even if you don't feel like it), WS is still confused and since still in somewhat of a 'selfish mode' will go wherever WS can get what WS wants (ie; no conflict, ego strokes, praise ect.)

I think you should expect to 'find out' new information for awhile. I'm sorry but I think it comes w/ the territory & is part of the process.

Is it excuseable? no, but understandable? yes. You are completely right, there was no need for a 'dinner' or any other C. H had to know youwould see the bill, but was only thinking of Ws @ the moment, not future consequences or anything else. Knowing you would find out, probably just figured, I will deal w/ it when I HAVE to but until then........

Keep up the positive and get that man moved back in. Keep supporting him and when all the dust is settled, he will be sooooo grateful for all this $**+ you put up w/ for him and will never stop showing you how much!

G123, glad to hear the update. I hope it all works for you, for the best. Good for you for finally taking some control for yourself.

The rest, continue to be patient and put your faith in God, not yourself, not your H and not even the Harleys! LOL

Now I am gonna put the update in my book suggestion.

Have a good 'hump' day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

JT2: I forgot to also say....don't discount what your H IS doing. I know this is hard and he may not be doing everything you want but he is trying, in his way. Buying you gifts, being there for the kids....... are 'things' his love language?

I mean did he always bring you gifts for no reason before so this is just his normal behavior? I know how frustrated you are. Believe me I KNOW! But don't over look the effort his IS making.

Maybe your way is words or verbal affirmation but his way is things, material gifts, so he is trying w/ the way he knows how.

Let time work it's magic. Don't try to rush the process either. I know you are sick & tired of being sick & tired. But like someone else said, the pain will still be there whether you D or not.

So allow your self time to heal and go through the stages w/o getting frustrated by your 'lack of progress' and wanting to give up.

How 'bout you allow your tiredness to let you relax and stop fighting the process/trying to avoid the pain instead of seeing the tiredness as a sign of needing to give-up.

Just let your self rest and give yourself and H some time.

Hang in there, I'm still rootin' for ya'.

KT,

I am trying to get some resolution before this baby is born. I want to know where we stand on this issue. H works up in the same bldg as OW, so I don't know if he sees her or not. He says he does not and does not wish to. She says the same but who do you believe? I unfortunately do not want to be in the situation as LMF is in!

It is driving me crazy that I might be. I want to make sure that I am being heard about this whole thing.

Yes H did buy gifts on occasion but not like this. H bought a new big screen TV to the house on yesterday and even purchased a cherry unit to encase it. Why would you make these purchases and you do not even live in the house with us? What is all this suppose to mean? He talked about buying new furniture and our furniture is only 4 yrs old. I don't want gifts I want answers.

I want to be able to trust him and feel loved by him and know that this will not effect our lives and never happen again!!

I don't get that from him and I need that. I am afraid anytime he is unhappy then he'll just go and do this again. I'm rambling but I am at my wits end. KT - I know that you are probably right but I just don't think that I can hang in there for this ride. I did not ask to be on this trip and do not wish to stay.

JT

I'm with kt. I get a little lost, but will respond to the few things that stood out to me.

KrisM~

If you haven't decided yet, you should for sure go and enjoy your weekend away with the kids and family. I know it's hard to have fun when your heart is heavy, but you need the time, space and diversion.

Let OW pull her stunts, and TRY NOT to voice your opinion when she does. Let HER DO ALL THE LB'G. She's doing a darn good job of it right now with her demands and deadlines. She's gonna hang herself, not your H.

JT2~ </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So how do I do a plan B when he is still so involved in our everyday lives and right now he has to be unless we go to an attny and get some sort of resolution ar agreement. I am ready to do that but he thinks that I am just angry. I think he beleives that I will not let him go.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You answered part of your own question. You should go to an attorney anyway to protect your children and set up CS for them. If you are ready to do Plan B, don't worry about what your H thinks. You will commence Plan B with a letter. If you do the letter correctly, he will know you're NOT doing it out of anger. Let us know when and if it's time for Plan B and we will help you with the Plan B letter. You will have to get some things taken care of and thought out before you do it, but it really shouldn't take long, once you're determined.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He states that "I know you love me just as much as I love you and I'm not going anywhere. I am not letting you go". But I just don't see that to be true. He states that he is trying and things have been better but we never discuss the issue at hand - OW/OC!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see so many good things in this. You're right though, and you won't see it as being true till he puts legs on those words. I also don't think he will want to discuss OW/OC with you till he feels safe. You can provide safety and protection by being consistent in your behavior. DO NOT LB and DO NOT make DJ's. Once he sees consistency in your reactions and behaviors he will hopefully feel safe enough to talk about the "hot topic". At the moment, he knows OW/OC topic is a potentially very explosive one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yes H did buy gifts on occasion but not like this. H bought a new big screen TV to the house on yesterday and even purchased a cherry unit to encase it. Why would you make these purchases and you do not even live in the house with us? What is all this suppose to mean? He talked about buying new furniture and our furniture is only 4 yrs old. I don't want gifts I want answers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he's trying to tell you where he wants to be, much like albany's H bringing tons of firewood to her house. Answers will come once he feels safe enough to give them. Answers, most times do not come till you are on the recovery path. In the meantime, accept his gifts with a cheeful heart and attitude, and NEVER, EVER say, "I don't want that stuff, I WANT ANSWERS!!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to be able to trust him and feel loved by him and know that this will not effect our lives and never happen again!!

I don't get that from him and I need that. I am afraid anytime he is unhappy then he'll just go and do this again. I'm </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are not going to be able to trust him for a long time, and then probably never completely. He has a lot of earning to do in that area. You're not going to get "much" from him right now, because you're not in recovery yet. Your goal, (IF you want him and your M), is to get him to want recovery, and you do that by first doing a stellar Plan A, then moving to Plan B if needed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know what else to do sso I am trying the 180 list now. I will not engage in any conversation with him unless it invoves the children. I will not do any wifely duties as far as cooking for him unless there is some left over from the children's dinner, and even then I will not leave it out for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I need to caution you on this. Ok, you are not in Plan B yet, right?... so for now, you are in Plan A. In Plan A you want to do your best to meet his EN's and load up his love bank. If he is at your house, my suggestion is to feed him and feed him good!!! If he wants to engage in conversation, then do so, always being as pleasant as you possibly can be. There is a difference between being indifferent and being flat out cold.

In Plan B he will be cut off from all these lovely things, but NOT in Plan A. I say, pour it on as long as you can. If your situation should come to Plan B, you want him to MISS his life with you!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

albany~

Whatever you do at this point, I suggest you continue to be consistent in your behavior. You also need to remember, until you decide on Plan B, you are in Plan A. Another thing is, your H is likely getting nervous and probably running a little scared with the soon to be birth.

BG~

I can't remember, have the two of you been in any MC? Could you do the Harley's? I think Steve might just be the ticket for your H. Other than that, you know my suggestion, and I'm sure you all get sick of hearing it, so I won't say it. LOL, you know what it is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You all take good care. My thoughts and prayers are with each of you.

~ad

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

AD,

Yeah I do remember your suggestion, I am not as there as I was last month, but it is still hanging in the back of my mind.

We went to one MC session together, can't afford to do the Harleys. Since Sunday we been better, hopefully moving toward recovery(wow, 4 whole days! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) I am now going backward & doing Plan A to see if there is a chance of getting US back on track, never did it longer than 2 weeks. I am thinking of doing PA until 2 yr. anniversary of DDay - July 14, if all is going well I then plan to seek resolution to the baby visitation issue, if it has not been resolved, still doing PA, if nothing has been resolved with that issue by the end of August, time to Plan B for real, w/ legal sep. papers the whole nine. That is 3 months of PA, hopefully during that time we can also have more counseling sessions.

That is my new plan, God only knows if I can stick it out & if it will work out. If not I will be able to go on to PB & possibly D knowing I went above & beyond the call the of duty, & I will have peace about it all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AD,

Thanks for the advice, but how will I make him feel safe when I do not feel safe? I feel like he could up and leave me high and dry at any moment. I do not trust what he tells me and I am afraid to even be happy about anything. I only know that he has destroyed my life and my family and I want him to feel the same pain that i do!

He needs to understand that it is not always going to be peachy but you have to work together, and I can not depend on him to work with me on this - he has not so far!

I am just to angry and it is not going away. I am on the verge of just saying to H*** with it all!

JT

JT: I know you are tired of it, and so hurt & angry. I cannot say anything to prove to you that these feelings do pass w/ time.

Do you want to get a divorce because you are angry?
Do you want to get a divorce for revenge?
Do you want to get a divorce because you are tired?

You will probably feel all these things whether you are divorced or not, they are just emotions, yes strong ones but what happens when they fade ----and they will----then where do you want to be?

Where do you want to be when your emotions have settled down and cooled off? Try thinking about that for awhile.

Figure out where you would like to be if all the hurt and anger were not there. Where would you like to be if you were happy? You can start making that happen right now and work towards that goal.

Would you rather be a single mom and happy or a married woman and happy?

Either choice is yours and yours alone and we will support you either way.

You just don't sound like you want to be divorced. You sound angry, you sound hurt you sound emotionally drained and tired but getting a D is not going to make all those feelings disappear, you will still feel angry, hurt and drained.
***********
Those are some major purchases to make for someone who does not want to be there. I think your H does wnat to be there.
**********
I know you want answers and resolutions. One step @ a time, they will come when you 2 are on sure footing again.

The only person you can change here is you. You know that. You can keep trying to deal w/ things in the same way you always have and keep getting the same frustrating results or you can try something different.

DO not let thoughts of OW & OC rob you of the strength to put effort into what is most important right now, your marriage. They are not your concern, neither is what happens to them. They will be taken care of regardless. H will pay CS no matter if your married or not, focus on your marriage.

It sounds like all your energies are divided right now, so much so that you cannot be fully committed to any ONE thing so you are spreading yourself thin which is what is wearing on you.
**********
Are you having trouble keeping your thoughts straight? Do they feel like they are going a mile a minute and your head will explode any second w/ all the thoughts?

Have you spoken to your Dr. about some anti-depressants or are you taking any now?
**********
Big hugs to you JT {{{{{JT}}}}} I really do understand your frustration, we all do and we are all here for you.

Stop pushing so hard and let go, you cannot control him.

JT2: I just read your psot on another thread.

So you do not even know where H is living right now? He hasn't even given you his address or phone #? Is that what is going on?

That makes things a little bit 'different'. I did not even know that part of your story, sorry.

Then I would immediately go into plan B.

At least give that a try first. What do you have to lose?

KT,

H claims to be living in a hotel right now I do not know which one, and no he is not telling me. When i start argueing about it he then says well you threw me out and did not care what happened to me. H says you knew I had noone here but you, no family other that you and the kids and you just left me out there not caring what happened to me. I did it out of anger and frustration!!

I can reach him on his cell phone and at our business. I sort of know where he's staying because I asked my step-son and he told me which hotel it was.

KT - He recieved the letter that I wrote in the mail last night. I LB a little and he left angry, called back on the phone while driving and stated that he was reading my letter. He then had and accident (12:30am) while on the phone with me. Hit something in the road and had a blow out. Asked me to come, so I did. I loaded up our sleeping kids in their carseats and headded down the interstate he was only about 3 exits from our house.

I helped him change the tire or better yet held the flashlight. He then hugged and kissed me and said he loved me and thanked me for coming to help him. We then went on our way, kids and I went H and he went on to wherever.

I called when we got home and LB some more. I was angry that me and the kids had to come home again alone. If he was at home he never would have had the blow out. I LB like crazy and then proceeded to tell him that I had filed for D!!

I have not done it of course but I am contiplating it hard. KT - you are right I am angry and I would rather be married to H and happy, but I don't see that being possible if another has my H child out there.

I am a lost cause, I know you are right in what you are telling me but it is like I can;t control anything. I can't even control my own feelings and anxiety about this situation.

No I am not on any meds, I am so afraid of getting on them. I feel as though I am failing.
I am beginning to doubt myself.

JT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he then says well you threw me out and did not care what happened to me. ...... I did it out of anger and frustration!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JT,

I can realate to you so well, my H throws that up in my face all the time that I put him out & didn't care where he went, he is right I was so angry at that moment, I didn't take time to think, he always said he'd stay w/ his mom - LIES! If I had known he'd run straight to the wh*&# I would have re-thought me decision, water under the bridge now of course.

KT gave you some sound advice, what did you put in the ltr.? Just explaining your feelings or letting him know you have had enough. Why didn't he call OW to come help him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It sounds like you need to Plan B & let him see that you mean business & will not put up w/ his fence sitting anymore, as KT said you are taking on much trying to figure out what will happen w/ you & H, the OC, & how much of a problem OW may be done the road. I took all that on, w/ no drugs either, just some rx sleep aid pills, if it were not for God's grace I would be in the looney bin. It is too much. For now concentrate on what you & H plan to do about your relationship, if he can't or won't focus on that right now, I think PB is the only alternative you have. You have kids to think about & they take priority over the mess H created w/ OW, so if he wants to be selfish & think of only HIS needs so be it. Don't keep throwing DV up unless you mean it, he will think of that as a joke after awhile. It seems that you need time to process your thoughts about what YOU want to do for YOU & your kids right now, PB will give you that time, if H is allowed to run in & out of your life, call you when he is in a jam but give you no accountability or concern & most of all honesty, he needs to be put on the back burner before you are all burned out!

That's the thing H tells me he wants to work on us and just be happy for right now. But I can't, I can not let it go. He tries to focus on us. He says he wants us to just enjoy the day or have fun with our family, but I am the one that always brings up OW/OC.

I am the one who never lets a day go by without bringing her into our home. H is the one that is tired of me letting her ruin our plans for the evening or our family time, yet H does keep coming back everynight. Why? Why can I not let it go? H says i keep repeating myself and asking the same questions that he has already answered.

I have stated my opinion on the situation almost everyday since it has come out. H says he wants us to enjoy being with each other but I can't - I don't. I can only think of the worst at all times.

Even if we are having a good time I can come up with a smart remark or anything to say to bring the situation up. Is it really him or is it me?
What do you do then?

I can't seem to get past it - not for a minute!

What now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

JT

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: JT2 ]</small>

JT,

I am confused, H left cuz you were physically abuse w/ him & it has nothing to do w/ OW - right?

H is trying & wants to spend time w/ you & act like OW & OC don't exist, but you are the one who keeps things crazy when he is around mentioning OW & OC - right?

Ok, so what is it you want right now? You want H home so you two can work on your M & NC w OC when he/she is born.

Does H know these are your desires? If so what is he planning to do? If he wants C w/ OC what are you going to do?

I still think you need to prioritize what is important to you, if that is H coming home & working on the M than put that first, what will happen when OC is born should be worked out by POJA before he does though, or you will have more problems.