WH can suddenly grow a backbone, conscience and a heart because he is making it up to his family

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Yes, thats right! making it up to his family sums it up right there. Mistakes are made and realize that and want to move on. (most not all)

OW remains evil, vile, a whore, whatever you want to call her.

Actions speak louder than words! Act like a lady and be treated like a lady. Ladies DONT sleep w/ MM! And if as most say they didn't know, at what point did you do the right thing, when you found out. MOST (not all) DONT they are tied up in the fantasy that this man that lied to them also will leave his wife, family, and everything he's worked for, for them. (most not all)

When BS come here and talk about thier situation, their OW in thier lives are HELL ON WHEELS. They use these OC to control, and constantly badger the BS and family. A pawn to a constant reminder of a mistake that was made. (NOT the child just the act of A) I dont think EVERY OW is bad and evil, but due to the actions of OUR OW in our lives, most are.

Thats why we come here so we can talk about our situation and get the comfort, and support of women who have been there. Not for women who have caused the same pain on their BS. If you did the right thing by a BS then you have never slept w/ her H. Plan simple cut and dry! Dont care if you knew her, dont care if you didn't, still wrong! Is it ok to steal from someone beacuse you dont know them? Thats what you did and of course WS has his blame in it too. Some OW get it and go on, some dont. Some just give our lives hell because THEY made their own mistake by sleeping w/ a MM.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

I don't have an OC, but my babysfather did get the OW pregnant but she had an abortion so I have felt a tiny fragment of what you guys feel. I do know that I cannot stand OW. This girl even though it was like almost 2 yrs ago knew we were engaged and living together and still she had to be a whore. I do believe people can change, only a few, and I do believe people make mistakes. So I dont hate all OW just the repeat offenders. It's just not right. It sickens me how they can destroy lives, yes the men share equal blame. But geez where are people's values and morals. But as God says. Do not give into the wordly things. Sit back the last shall be the first in line. The bad ones will reap what they sow.. They will get theirs.

Yes, JM the MM can come out smelling like a "rose" IF he has humbled himself to his family and to God, period. OW can do the same in my own personal handbook.

The OW IS nasty when she cries that she is a victim, when she tries to screws w/the BS and marriage further, when she displays that nasty false sense of entitlement to MM's life, when she acts as if OC should be the second birth of Christ to MM's family, when she will not allow herself to admit the blood she ALSO HAS ON HER HANDS as an individual, for destroying lives, including childrens', when she is too thick to allow herself to see why NC is not a given- and that C usually creates MORE confusion and unnecessary pain to all parties involved, when she is out to make MM PAY PAY PAY for what he did to HER (the poor unwilling victim)....

Shall I say more? Or maybe we can take this debate to your house, JM? Can we? Didn't think so.

OW is also nasty when she calls a BW a shrew. After all, a shrew means " an ill-tempered scolding woman ". Sounds like OW to me, when she is no longer that fun piece of action to MM, and she realizes that she should have known this all along.

But any human being can learn how to chance arrogant and nasty thinking. Every OW and MM, human in general CAN can come out a beautiful, lovely rose in the spring that everyone will admire.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by giovanna123:
<strong> Yes, JM the MM can come out smelling like a "rose" IF he has humbled himself to his family and to God, period. OW can do the same in my own personal handbook.

JM: That's the point I was trying to make, or see if anyone had. My point was that EVERYONE can change, if they have the desire to do so.

Shall I say more? Or maybe we can take this debate to your house, JM? Can we? Didn't think so.

JM: Sure, coffee is on. Come on over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OW is also nasty when she calls a BW a shrew. After all, a shrew means " an ill-tempered scolding woman ". Sounds like OW to me, when she is no longer that fun piece of action to MM, and she realizes that she should have known this all along.

JM: I didn't call BW a shrew, I was just using it as a generalization in the "ow is a whore" type way. I can count on one hand the number of women that I truly consider shrews. And some are people I know IRL.

But any human being can learn how to chance arrogant and nasty thinking. Every OW and MM, human in general CAN can come out a beautiful, lovely rose in the spring that everyone will admire. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JM: That's all I was asking.

Giovanna, I'm over 8 years after the stupid period in my life where I got involved with xMM. And yes, it was stupid. I know that now. I didn't know that then, or if I did - I ignored it. I have moved on with my life, I've apologized to BW for my part in the affair, I reached a crossroads in my life where I could continue to be angry at myself and xMM for the situation, or I could move on with my life and put it all behind me. That's what I chose to do. I don't dwell on xMM or BW, or their kids. I live 1,000 miles away from them. I don't hate xMM for NC, I understand his reasoning, I don't agree with it, but I respect his wishes. At this point, also, I LIKE NC. I like not having to deal with him. I no longer like him as a person, or respect him as a person. Amazing, that the fog lifted, and I didn't like what I saw. In him OR in me. So *I* changed.

I don't hate xMM for NC, I understand his reasoning, I don't agree with it, but I respect his wishes.

Joshmom if that was a long time ago, and you say you've changed, and HELLO he's married how could you not understand his reasoning for no contact? So let's see. He should of stayed contacting you even thought ya'll stopped sleeping around? I'm baffled

I said I UNDERSTAND it. I said that I may not AGREE with it. Or maybe I should edit that - I may not have agreed with it at the time. I certainly agree with it now, because my son is 8, and doesn't remember when his father was around. I would rather have had his father walk away when he was 1 than when he was older, and he can remember, and be hurt by it. It's not all abut me, it's not all about xMM or BW, it's all about my son. And what is best for him NOW.

JM, I am glad to hear it. I personally do not have a problem with people who DO humble themselves towards those they have hurt. I am also taught that I am not God and I do not have the right to "adjust" such behaviors. It is very hard not to come undone and be MAD AS HECK- so I come here to work through the bad feelings and try to learn ways of coping and changing ME too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by giovanna123:
<strong> JM, I am glad to hear it. I personally do not have a problem with people who DO humble themselves towards those they have hurt. I am also taught that I am not God and I do not have the right to "adjust" such behaviors. It is very hard not to come undone and be MAD AS HECK- so I come here to work through the bad feelings and try to learn ways of coping and changing ME too. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I think that it's wonderful that you have this place, and you have others that you can talk to about it. I think that MB is invaluable, just as TOW is, in it's own way. What I find sad, though, is that some of the people giving advice are 8-9-10+ years past the affair, but can't move on and just forgive or let go of the anger/bitterness and I hope *that* kind of attitude isn't the one that sticks with anyone.

Joshmom I didnt know your Xmm was the father of your child, now I understand why you said you may have not agreed with it at that time. See this is exactly why people men and woman need to stay faithful. Too much trouble. Children and innocent people get involved. It turns into such a mess. I know you would never regret your son. So therefore you may never regret your affair, but you do know it was a mistake. Well there's one. I get so angry that I had to be exposed to this so young. I never married my babysfather thank goodness, even though we were supposed to, but he has tainted my view on society and not just him but the OW involved as well played a part in why I trust no one, but I am also grateful that this happened to me young so that means I have plenty more years of being a strong resilient woman. After this heartache, the pain I felt when I found out, my dreams of being a little family just stomped out....and getting though it. I feel I can conquer anything because I got through it and I am so happy now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by XangelX:
<strong> Joshmom I didnt know your Xmm was the father of your child, now I understand why you said you may have not agreed with it at that time. See this is exactly why people men and woman need to stay faithful. Too much trouble. Children and innocent people get involved. It turns into such a mess. I know you would never regret your son. So therefore you may never regret your affair, but you do know it was a mistake. Well there's one. I get so angry that I had to be exposed to this so young. I never married my babysfather thank goodness, even though we were supposed to, but he has tainted my view on society and not just him but the OW involved as well played a part in why I trust no one, but I am also grateful that this happened to me young so that means I have plenty more years of being a strong resilient woman. After this heartache, the pain I felt when I found out, my dreams of being a little family just stomped out....and getting though it. I feel I can conquer anything because I got through it and I am so happy now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So your experience has made you a stronger woman. Nothing to regret there. Just be the best mother you can be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And you have plenty more years to meet Mr. Wonderful and have that happy little family.
And while I do regret my actions, I can't regret my son.

Idoubt very much if your XMM could care less if you agree with him or not. He has a life he has to live, and you are not part of it. As for contact with the oc, it is not up to you. THEY, he and his family make choices and just as you CHOSE to have a baby without ready father, they CHOSE to not have the oc in their life.

I am waaaay past the dday and birth of oc. What amazes me is the manipulations and self serving mantras of ow have not changed a bit. I was asked by a BW to come here and tell a certain BW last year to give advice on how to deal with future finances and secure them for the family. I myself stay around so some poor hurting BW isn't railroaded by some manipulative ow. I was amazed at how many ow come on here and spew forth their tired, self serving "what is best for the oc" mantra. Acting as if the MM, his wife and children have no choice in the matter.

Personally, my beliefs are, since a woman has 100% control over having an abortion, she is 100% responsible for the child. IF the father clearly states he is not interested in being a father, he should be absolved of any responsibility. Since he has no choices. I am healed and I come here to advise and help women who are in pain. I let them know they CAN beat the ow in court (we have our ow up against the ropes with leins. Leins from years ago when she kept harassing us, now she can't sell her home), that the law WILL look out for them too. That ow can't harrass and call and demand a thing. I let them know that it is ok to walk away from oc and live life as they intended. They need to see that there is life ahead of them and that the ow/oc is just a speedbump in the road. It isn't life threatening and they don't matter. I let them know that if they choose no contact it is easier for them and their families (my opinion). I let them know that no matter what they chose to do, it is none of ow business and her wishes are not a consideration.

I believe that there are lots of hurt people, oc is just one of many. That this was created by two people and the end result is pain all around for many. Sure it is sad oc doesn't get to know or have a father tuck him in at night. But that was the choice the ow made. She CHOSE to keep her baby, and that is the life that came with that choice. She is just as guilty as the MM for end result. It is important that BW know it is not their problem to fix, that they are vitims as are their children. That their feelings and wishes are important and if they chose or don't chose contact with oc,it is all ok.

Joshmom,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I find sad, though, is that some of the people giving advice are 8-9-10+ years past the affair, but can't move on and just forgive or let go of the anger/bitterness and I hope *that* kind of attitude isn't the one that sticks with anyone.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are 8 years past the affair. I'm almost 8 years past my H's affair. Many of the posters here are several years past. I think it's VERY important we all stick around to give advice and hope to all "newcomers."

Anger and bitterness? I do see some of that in your posts also, especially when you are relating to a new poster on your forum, just to let them know you KNOW how they feel,,BTDT, as we do. Do you live with it daily? Do we? No, I sincerely doubt it but I'm certain a twinge of that remains forever, hopefully way deep down.

The important thing is we all are there to let the new posters know there IS hope for tomorrow, for the future. We have made it, albeit all in different ways, and they will find their way too. It WILL get better. They will have happy days again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

lynn
I for one... am so GLAD you are here! You have better voice than I! You empower these women that there is hope and that there is life after this tragedy....

I agree with you 100%... 99% of the time NC with the OC is best for all involve. For my case it was different... the hellish OW in our life made damn sure she was going to make our lives hell. I turned the tables on her... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyways, you have to fight fire with fire. I am almost 8-9 years post dday. Am I bitter? Hell NO!!

Lynn... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I love reading your postings...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LynnG:
<strong> Personally, my beliefs are, since a woman has 100% control over having an abortion, she is 100% responsible for the child. IF the father clearly states he is not interested in being a father, he should be absolved of any responsibility. Since he has no choices. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting. Well lets see. i was married to my high school sweetheart. We then had a child. When our child was 4 months old, husband vanished.... I got a phone call from him saying he realized he is not ready to be a father... he had a different lifestyle in mind. it took over 3 years to find him to finally get a divorce and I struggled working 2 jobs and going to college and raising our son alone. He abandoned us, his WIFE and his SON... we never recieved a single penny from him over my sons lifetime. I eventually had his rights terminated on grounds of abandonment.

By what you wrote, you would say what he did to us is okay, just because he woke up one morning and decided he did not want the responsibility? We were cramping his style?

Well I disagree, he was 50% responsible for creating a life with me HIS WIFE...

Hey NYCmedic,

I think she means before the child is born, not after....in your case he was totally as responsible as you because he was there, and of course I am sure u thought u were in the situation together as a married couple. So sorry for your situation, and I hope u are doing fine now, and have rose above it all, and moved on.

thanks...
yeah yeah, I think i understand what she meant... would it had made a difference if he left upon first discovering we were pregnant? not really.
Oh well enough about that... it was sooooo long ago... i just think of xH as a sperm donor. i have no animosity towards him... enough time has passed. i dont mean to threadjack. :-)

<small>[ October 02, 2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: nycmedic ]</small>