I am sick of all the bickering.

In some ways, maybe it was a good thing when I first came here, I was so engulfed in my problems, that I didn't notice all the bickering, or I may've booked.

Or maybe it wasn't this bad 18 months ago? I know what's going on lately is nothing new, I've seen waves of it in the time I've been here. Still, I'm sick of it. Aren't you all?

It makes me wonder how many people, who could be helped, have not stuck around long enough to receive it.

Thank goodness for those of you who value the principles of MB, and try to teach them, and base your advice upon them. There are far too few of you doing it though. More who know MB inside and out or are at least are trying to learn it, need to speak up, PLEASE!

I'm sorry too!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I think the bickering comes when some of the ow and their supporters come here, and start in on their "what is best for oc" mantra and the rest self serving bullcrap. Never once realizing that what they want or need is hardly a concern for a couple who is staying together.

But as for the bickering? I find it good for BW to see exactly what an OW is and how she thinks. It is good for the freshly hurt to get a clear picture of how abnormal a OW is, how they use the oc and how they are angry and bitter. MB is for marriages on the mend. It is specifically a tool to teach people how to move on and past this mistake. We have an ow on here so sure her child will be "raging" about the whole thing. And where do you think that child will learn about rage??? From his mother, the ow. So I think it is good for BW to see exactly what kind of people they are dealing with. It is good for them to read how KT and hers fought to "do the right thing" and how it turned out. It is good for BW to get as much information as possible so they can make decisions for their own futures.

Is it uncomfortable? Could be. But what about this isn't? This is not a pretty thing. Two people created this mess and the fallout effects many. Anger? You bet.

Can you imagine how long a post of mine would stay up at "their" place? But unlike the standard issue, self absorbed ow, I would not go over and post at their board. What would be the point? To rile them up? Well, I feel that is what they are doing here. But it certainly shows how selfish and self absorbed and full of self importance they are. THAT is a good thing for BW to see. It wakes them up to the fact that there are mean, selfish and cruel women out there. That there are people who will use their children for revenge and all. It will help these poor sweet hurting wives make decisions in their own lives.

Sad? Yep. But the whole situation is sad for so many. The Marriage side owes the OW side NOTHING.

I did apologize to Autumday and to Justuss for allowing myself to get upset at the OW around here. I was angry last night and irritated to no end for a number of reasons in "real life" and then come online to read things that really pushed my buttons.

I am not allowed to vent and just be plain ANGRY anywhere- not even here. I can't be immature. I must be nice and calm and rational at all times and that is hard some days. I thought in some regard this is where the BS CAN actually let some of that ugly out when it hurts.

I was wrong, and I will try to keep it down and hold some of that in, nothing new! I sure dont want to hurt any members who have been here a lot longer than I - or give them the impression that I am a troublemaker.

Lynn, I agree w/you about why at times the OW "helps" - hopefully you'll read one of my posts from last night that says exactly what you are saying about that!

AD,

I totally agree with you, that is one of the reasons why I rarely post here anymore. So much of what is posted is so far of the track of marriage building or its principles.

I have never understood why an OW who has a child with a MM & is not married herself comes here to post other than to cause pain to a BW.

I personally see no purpose in it, that is just me though, but I see nothing that that kind of OW can offer me, I have one in my life & I know what kind of person she is, I don't need to see it here to help me to know that. NO not all OW are alike, but the majority seem to be, they want nothing more than to steal another woman's H by having a baby for the man, & if that doesn't work & the H choses to stay w/ his wife they cause problems to try & break up the M, & how else can they do that - they use the OC and start playing these sick games. Again I am not classifying ALL OW in this category but there are some who post on this board who have nothing positive to offer a hurting BW who is attempting to save their M with or without contact with OC. That is what I am truly sick of.

giovanna123 posted:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am not allowed to vent and just be plain ANGRY anywhere- not even here. I can't be immature. I must be nice and calm and rational at all times and that is hard some days. I thought in some regard this is where the BS CAN actually let some of that ugly out when it hurts.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is NO need for an apology to me. This IS your board to vent your anger, your hurt, your pain and your confusion.,,and for ALL BS's and FWS working on rebuilding their marriages. And for those SUPPORTING those goals.

I understand where you are coming from G123, this should be your place to vent from time to time and not have to worry about explaining yourself to an unmarried OW w/OC who took offense to the comment. Who would really be happy to find out their H fathered a child outside the M? Are you just supposed to take it with a smile on your face? Well the OW sure doesn't take the MM staying in the M with a smile on her face... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Coming to this site has really made me realize the pain I caused my H. I hope he feels I am making it up to him, he says he does, but there are days I wonder. I guess only time will tell.

FMWback,

I personally have nothing to bicker about or be angry about when a FOW does humble herself to those she took part in hurting. When she can admit also that she IS responsible for hurting a whole family along w/MM--- even if she didn't personally know the BS or the MM family- when she is able to understand the depth of destruction it causes and not chalks it up to -oh well, HE is married to you, not me- get over it and accept OC like an "adult". Just like that!

It boils my blood to see any human being hurting- especially at my hand. Smug OW or people w/false senses of entitlement are really only hurting themselves and their OC if they have one.

I have NO place or right to judge and condemn an OW or anyone who commit sinful/hurtful acts, it is God's place. But I DO have the right as a human being to feel what ANY woman would feel in our situation. I cannot imagine throwing out the "do unto others" thing and then having a smug and nasty attitude towards the ones that *I* hurt without warning or without them doing anything to me, ever.

YOU have the right attitude. YOU will love yourself and YOU will ultimately heal from this and be able to proudly put any hurt in the past that you caused BEHIND YOU and so will your H. NOW THAT attitude I can forgive, understand and respect, FMWback. More FOW would benefit so much from someone like you who IS willing to make things right! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks G123, I appreciate that. I am amazed by the strength many of you ladies have. You may not feel you are strong, but you are. It takes a lot more muscle to take on something that was thrust upon you versus something you brought upon yourself (ie, believing a MM wants a child outside his M before divorcing). Many wives are completely in the dark until it is too late, then they have to play catch up to the reality of things.

My A is still a factor in my M, that may not ever change. I still can tell when my H is feeling insecure, and it bothers the heck out of me because now that is the farthest thing from my mind (cheating that is). But, how does he know that? That's why I think only time will tell, with consistent actions on my part. Oh, and maybe the baby I'm carrying will help too! We are both very excited about it. I'm lucky in the sense we totally planned it out, we discussed when I was going off BC and all that jazz.

Lynn G - I say you hit the nail on the head.

Venting here is precisely the right thing to do! Somedays you just need to let it out. Doing it here is a safe place for you. Some of us have been there and done that. With us, you are safe and understood.

Look at the "[censored]" remark. Not a living soul would ever condone that being flung at a child. EVER. Yet some pious ow comes on here, pontificating how she would never say such a cruel thing about a child, with the insinuation that the BW is such a horrible person for having an angry thought. Yet she is ok with sleeping with a married man????

I feel that if a BW vents here she is doing something constructive at that time. She is writing out her pain and anger. She is getting hugs and love from others. A day or two later she sees how harsh it was and you know what? Thats ok. This situation is not a church dance, it is fraught with real emotions and feelings. While all the advice given by Dr. Harley is sound, the early days it is pretty tough to not be angry and lash out. So lash away my friends. Get it out. You don't have to be kind and sweet and loving and supportive and all those good qualities about you all the time. You have heart and it is hurting. Let it out. We are here for you. Also, if we feel like you are going to far we will gently pull you in. However, you do not need to worry yourselves about offending ow/oc on here. That is just not right.

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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This is my OP not working on your M begone dance.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

"It takes a lot more muscle to take on something that was thrust upon you versus something you brought upon yourself (ie, believing a MM wants a child outside his M before divorcing)".

I guess this comment leaves me somewhat confused. Tell me (and maybe I'm not the "norm"), but why in the world would any adult woman believe and then follow through with getting pregnant when the MM is still married? Ladies, there's a difference between love and lust/passion. The latter if pure hedonistic behavior - or purely for pleasure. Don't you know that by the time you're about 25???? I know now I've opened up the debate that doesn't the MM know that too - - well yes in reality they should, but there are many fundamental differences between men and women, one of those being "men were born with two heads and are capable of using one at a time".

Another .02.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Its called the 150,000 show me you care thing! Add it up. Shoot I would say he wanted it to. But I dont know a man/woman ANYWHERE that would want to pay that much for a booty call. And yes I'm tring to be funny today we need to smile and laugh and live!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

IANS,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well yes in reality they should, but there are many fundamental differences between men and women, one of those being "men were born with two heads and are capable of using one at a time". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love that!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That about says it all!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Yep, yep, yep.
Me too I agree!!! Still dancing, does anyone else want to dance the pain in our rears begone dance, that is the next one!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Good idea sunny!

PS - You are right, who really wants to pay for a booty call for the next 18 yrs?? lol

I know MINE didn't, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> but you know, I see it this way God will punish sin anyway he chooses and yes everyone involved has it coming! Even the H! I say to that Rock on!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

"I think the bickering comes when some of the ow and their supporters come here, and start in on their "what is best for oc" mantra and the rest self serving bullcrap. Never once realizing that what they want or need is hardly a concern for a couple who is staying together. "



So now you are going to attack women who chose to do what is good for them. By having contact with the OC?! I wonder where all the bickering comes from? HMmmmmmm.....

You have no idea of what a woman goes through to make that decision in her life and marriage. But you can "bandy" about YOUR position with impunity.

Get real LynnG!! I am supporting what I believe is right. Right for me and mine! If it happens to be best for OW...well that is out of my hands.

ent

entwifejmr,
So now you are going to attack women who chose to do what is good for them. By having contact with the OC?! I wonder where all the bickering comes from? HMmmmmmm.....

Where is the attack?

Most here who have chosen N/C are doing BETTER than those who did.

Most who have chosen to allow their H to have their cake and eat it too have gone on to divorce.

Most who had chosen C do not post as they have dissolved their marriage and no longer post here.

Most who did what it took according to MB and Steve Harleys counseling are thriving, better than before.

Please do not think because we chose NC we are against YOU.

A few have made it work...Stacia, Whatif...to name 2. Others may come along.

For the most part, N/C HELPS the BS and WS and allows them time to come together in a POJA and honestly policy, and to fill each others love banks w/o the op present weekly....sort of a hiaitus from the lalaland vacation that offended the marriage to begin with.

Soooo.... whatever floats YOUR boat...so be it....careful though....if it is THAT hard...YOU MAY BE SACRIFICING yourself FOR YOUR H'S NEEDS.

a BIG NO-NO in MB CONCEPTS AND A CERTAIN FORMULA FOR FAILURE.

We are just all involved with a big sad mess and try to impliment what we learned here for success.

#1 is a repentant spouse...then follow the yellow brick road with MB.

Debi

<small>[ October 06, 2004, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>