</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh & BTW: LOTS of OW are left w/ the WONDERFUL blessing of OC, what is BS left w/?
fractured reality,
shattered dreams,
broken heart,
confused & scared children of her own.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't that the reality? Reading this in that way, I wonder how I made it through this whole mess. You know I did try the "feel sorry for her too route", it was the biggest mistake I made. I was trying to heal myself and while trying to consider her I ended up hurting more. I expected too much from someone that had so little to offer I guess. The nicer I became, the more she threw at me from all angles. I learned to just do for me and my family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You know I did try the "feel sorry for her too route", it was the biggest mistake I made. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With H Ow, I never felt sorry for her. She knew before she started screwing him that he was married and had 3 kids. She told me straight to my face that the reason he was with her was I was a b***h. That she did more for him in bed than I would. I told her have fun, he's a cheater and will leave you soon enough. After he left her she tried throwing guilt in his face when he asked about the pregnacy, "the father doesn't care about the baby, he went back to his wife" To this day she is still trying to get others to feel sorry for her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She knew before she started screwing him that he was married and had 3 kids. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny thing is that when I first found out the baby was only 4 months old. So that gave OW and H, what 9 months of pregnancy and 4 months after birth to figure it all out. Thats more than a year right? Yet both sat on their asses until I was fortunate enough to find out on my own.

Well she thought I should accept and be wonderful and fuzzy and accepting. Insisted that the baby instantly be part of our lives. All the while claiming to be a victim and how she was used too....Ummmm when you are involved with a MM with a wife that he comes home to everynight and three children, that victim card goes out the window.

And still I tried...Oh well lesson learned...

I didnt even know if I was going to remain in this marriage. How was I supposed to take on an OC? Took us almost a year to get to where we needed to be. Glad we did take this time.

I can't believe what I just read!!!

Are you for REAL Just J??? Just wondering??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When people scream like that, it usually means that they're frightened to the point of a fight-or-flight reflex reaction. I would guess that OW is (rightly) terrified of the thought of having to raise a child on her own. She's also (again rightly) in a great deal of pain.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Rightly terrified!?!?! Rightly in Pain!?!?

NO she doesn't have that right!! SORRY. She passed that up when she slept with a married man and she also had the right to give up that child for adoption if she is so da*n terrified of raising it on her own. She has the right to choose birth control but she didn't... so I say she will have to bloody well suck it up!! "It's time for her to GROW up" And the screaming that you were indicating was because she couldn't control the situation....had nothing to do with what you were suggesting.

Sheesh! Some people!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

wiz

Just J, are you on crack?

You state "..that she believed his dishonest statements to her is perhaps the saddest thing"

GET A CLUE WILL YOU.

1. Who is to say that said whore didn't lie to HIM about being on birth control??????

2. How on earth is is sad for an ow who WILLINGLY sleeps with a married man and finds herself knocked up and dumped with an unwanted child? Is SHE not to blame for her own lot in life?

3. How can any trauma, hurt, pain, whatever the ow suffers be considered "the saddest" thing? She DESERVES to feel those, she asked for it, she brought it on herself.

To even consider that any of these women here should give one second of thought or pity to some ow cause she is "scared" and "alone" is simply and without a doubt one of the stupidest things I have ever read here. Try this one on. Tell the ow that she should feel sorry for the man's WIFE and his children for the damage to their family that SHE participated in. Then tell her to be an adult and leave them alone. PERIOD.

I get SO sick of hearing OW whining about how " HURT " they are. That makes about as much sense as me sticking my hand in a moving blender and then crying because my hand hurts.
When you get hurt because of your own stupidity then you just got what was coming to you. And to use the excuse " he lied to me " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> does not excuse the fact that you were stupid enough to believe those lies. You already knew he was lying to one woman, how much arrogance ( or ignorance) does it take to believe that he wouldn't lie to you ??!!!

Ya know girlz.....there is a clear problem w/a woman who CHOOSES to sleep w/a married man in the first place... OR AT LEAST keep the sh*t up for ANY LENGTH of time... w/no real remorse and a sense of FALSE ENTITLEMENT (to lots of stuff lol)....

AND DEN.......

When I was a younger fun & games "player" type (oh those good ole days....) I was SELFISH, and I KNEW it. I sat back and BASICALLY WAITED and KNEW 100% this SELFISH hurting of men who loved me and were good WAS COMING BACK on me - JUST A MATTER OF TIME, PERIOD. I told my friends this all the time.. that I was DEAD the day I really loved someone because you ALWAYS get back what you give eventually.

CERTAIN, not all XOW lack this little quality called REALITY and HUMBLENESS. EVERYONE f's up but many OW's antics and beliefs to me are just plain TWILIGHT ZONE.

I could say so much more, but why--- words will never do justice the chill I get up my spine thinking of what a continued OP is GONA have coming to them if they don't join the TRUTH!

" Just J--------WHO CARES?

We are not here to bemoan the plight of any WILLING OW. We are here to offer a 'support network' to BW.

It MIGHT be a painful road for OW---so what?---it IS pain she CHOSE.

BW/BS on the other hand, NEVER had a CHOICE in this.

Oh & BTW: LOTS of OW are left w/ the WONDERFUL blessing of OC, what is BS left w/?
fractured reality,
shattered dreams,
broken heart,
confused & scared children of her own.

Yah, a few find a way to live happily ever after.

***********************
***********************
Sure I can 'pity' OW sometimes, feel compassion for OW, yes, but I'll be DAMNED if I am gonna feel SORRY for OW or anything like that!!!!

Let OW clean up her OWN mess.

And I don't care how 'scared' (wah wah wah wah wah ) any OW is: there's a little something called 'self-control', we are ALL capable of using it. So there is no excuse.

I wonder if it was BW who frantically flew off the handle if OW would be so 'understanding'?

Yah right!
************************
************************
I'm sure you meant 'nothing' by your post....only trying to show another POV. ..but trust me, we BW/BS, have seen enough OTHER POV to last us a life time, I think. "

This is the first time I have ever even read in here. I dont even know why I did today, but this comment by KT I thought needed to be addressed.

While its not my place since I have never been in this situation I would like the chance to respond.

justJs comment about a the OW believing the WS promises and her comment about hoping she has a support group in place are what I assume really set you off.

While I agree that the OW made the choice, and the BS did not, I think JustJs comment was more about the other party that didnt have a choice. THE OC.

The BW and WS can recover, how does an OC recover?

Just my thoughts. Bring on the 2x4s if you feel the need.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The BW and WS can recover, how does an OC recover? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont know how it will all work out for OC. This is what kills me the most. They never thought about the ramifications and the pain they would bring into their own childs life. Imagine having to start life with such issues?

I pray everyday that my husbands child never ever feels different around us. Never feels a void or not loved the same. I guess only time will tell.

I have spoken to adult OCs, and regardless of how good they were treated by their families, something has always felt off for them.

I dont know how they will recover or if they ever will.

I do definitely agree-- OC will suffer- and it is a travesty. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

The suffering of the oc is the blame of it's mother. PERIOD. She willingly brings a child into the world that is unwanted. That is her deal to fix. Once she was pregnant, she had a choice. There is no choice for the father. So it is 100% her responsibility. PERIOD.

As for the oc? Well I am to busy raising our children to worry about his welfare. That is not my problem now is it? Was she concerened for the destruction she was willing to participate in that had ramifications for my children? She can take her fear and her hurt and live with it. Her problem.

quote,I'm sure you meant 'nothing' by your post....only trying to show another POV. ..but trust me, we BW/BS, have seen enough OTHER POV to last us a life time, I think. "

This is the first time I have ever even read in here. I dont even know why I did today, but this comment by KT I thought needed to be addressed.

While its not my place since I have never been in this situation I would like the chance to respond.

justJs comment about a the OW believing the WS promises and her comment about hoping she has a support group in place are what I assume really set you off.

While I agree that the OW made the choice, and the BS did not, I think JustJs comment was more about the other party that didnt have a choice. THE OC.

The BW and WS can recover, how does an OC recover?

Just my thoughts. Bring on the 2x4s if you feel the need.

--------------------
John" end quote

I whole heartedly agree. Just duck John, when the 2 x 4's start swinging.

ent

I think JustJ's post is being misunderstood. She isn't asking for sympathy for the OW at all...you guys are interpretting "rightly" as meaning "has a right" when I'm convinced that it by "rightly" she means "should". Neither is her post directed at the OC....it is all about the OW suffering anger, fear etc "rightly" (because she should) for the choices she made...because each of us must pay for our choices. She says:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When people scream like that, it usually means that they're frightened to the point of a fight-or-flight reflex reaction. I would guess that OW is (rightly) terrified of the thought of having to raise a child on her own. She's also (again rightly) in a great deal of pain. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This means that the OW SHOULD be terrified...the choices she has made will can have frightening and painful consequences. She goes on to say that she IS rightly (should be) in pain because she has caused great pain and this is sadly the payment for that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> That she believed his dishonest statements to her is perhaps the saddest thing, but it's also the most human. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is indeed a sad state of affairs that so much dishonesty fuels these events...and human gullibility feeds them as well. OWs are not the only one who believe lies...and make decisions based on them....in that...there is some small human understanding of how these things can happen.

JustJ is an incredibly caring and ethical individual...I know she wouldn't make "excuses" for these choices or imply that the OW had a "right" to hurt others....it's just worded

The word "rightly" is defined in this way:

According to justice; according to the divine will or moral rectitude; uprightly; as, duty rightly performed.

If you go back and use that meaning when she says "rightly"....I think you will see what I mean.

ok..........starfish.........your interpretation makes ALOT of sense. I can see that.
***********************
***********************

john: 'How does OC recover?'

PROBABLY the same way BC recover. Remember those children? The children of the marraige who are old enough already to understand the betrayal that is also put upon them? The children of the marraige who are ALSO innocent?

Remember those children?
They are OFTEN overlooked in these situations.

Some of them don't fully understand it all @ first & can only see the joy of having a new sibling. Just like the joy OW experiences.

Some of them realize the consequences more fully as they get older & feel more hurt & anger then. Some realize it fully from the beginning & have the emotional battle wounds & scars to prove it. IF they are the 'lucky' few their parents actually survive it as well & make it through w/ thier marriage still intact but still not unscathed by it all.

Some are hurt in other ways....like not being able to have a relationship (for various reasons) w/ thier sibling, asking & crying for their sibling to 'come back'.

And who deals w/ this?
WHO comforts these BC?
Most often it is the BW.
What mother does NOT see & feel the pain in her own heart when she sees it in her children's hearts?

What about those BC who are sooo emotionally distraught over the stress & damage that has been done to their lives as well? DO we forget about them? Most do.

Yes, children are resilient, yes they are sensitive but they are also each DIFFERENT & have different levels of what they can handle.

Who looks after them?
Who protects them?
What about THEIR rights?

BW are (usually) the ONLY ones who take up this responsibility. WS are too busy being 'confused', OW is only concerned for herself & her child, which is fair.

UNTIL a BW starts to respond the same way, w/ concern for only her own children then suddenly voices are crying 'foul'.

NOONE stands up for the BC, the children of the marriage. But us BW MUST do this, no one else will advocate for your child but YOU.

So...that is what sets many of us 'off'.
Yes, many young children will willingly accept anything thier parents dish out to them (the same way an abused child still loves & wants to be w/ their abusive parent) & that can be great when you are trying to 'blend' a new sibling or step-siblings.

BUT some cannot handle the stress. SO am I to sacrifice one for the other? Sorry, not gonna do it. Gotta draw the line.

For every one it is different. Not better, not worse, just different. We all have a point where we say enough is enough.

And when the majority are all for ONE child but overlooking the other children.......that is a problem.

I'm not the only one. I've read of other BW children showing such signs of stress but who advocates for those innocents?

I think I am starting to repeat myself here sorry & I know I have a tendency (LOL) to be 'wordy'....I think you get my point.
**************
**************
THere also comes a point when a BW msut realize that SHE cannot fix this.

You want to know how an OC recovers? GO ask OW!!
I did not create this situation, niether am i responsible to fix it. I have plenty of my own responsibilities to worry about.

GO ask OW & I think, (my POV only) that most will blame the father. Of course it is only onhe side, ask many 'fathers' & they will blame OW.

Ask this BW & I say-----I don't know & it's not my job to care. DO I care? Sure, but I can't waste any more energy on a situation that I cannot fix when I have situations in my own life that I possible can, so I set my attention & energy on those.

Do you see what I mean?
My own children suffered & yes, OC will in some way as well. EVERYONE does. Some part of me believes neither is more than the other (but only a small part <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) BUT the difference is that some of it was self-inflicted by 2 particular individuals. THAT I don't feel sorry for.

*******************
*********************
I gotta go now, I'm not sure if I clearly made my point or not, (but I did use plenty of words to try LOL) but I hope so.


ooo
xxx
kt

who has finally given herself permission to accept that some things CANNOT be fixed and are completely out of MY doing & control.

KT-- isnt it strange that many OW, or even BW,who have no OC---- forget about our children?

Its amazing how much potential harm is explored regarding the OC... who has never had the xMM/father in their lives, ever.... they actually have a decent chance at being raised just fine with their mothers or stepfathers.

My children--they are OLDER AND THEY LIVE with this MESS!!!!! They see the tears the fights, the hurt, the pain..... they FEEL so much disappointment and hurt and disbelief and pain and embarassment !!! The little OCs are born in total BLISS- they have NO CLUE what is up!!!! They smile all day and sleep just fine!!! And then, just like me, when my parents divorced at age *2*.. I went on to live a perfectly fine and happy life since it was this way since birth for me! know what I mean??????

I feel sorry for the OC because of the sh*t they represent, the sad conditions of the birth, etc.... losing out on great siblings, etc. etc..

But IMO-- the BC have it worse- especially those that have any age on them---

Its like the OW resents them and sees it as "oh well- they have a father there, don't they?!!" -- Well great- but having a father in the house who they NOW have to picture SCREWING some other chick??? Seeing their lives being torn apart- the lives they knew and loved????

Yes, KT we DO take offense to too many tears here for OC-- just because we know that our children are so hurt from this garbage that MM and OW create for them.

KT & G123,

I couldn't have said it better myself!! HERE - HERE!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I AGREE 125% WITH THE BOTH OF YOU!!


JT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And who deals w/ this?
WHO comforts these BC?
Most often it is the BW.
What mother does NOT see & feel the pain in her own heart when she sees it in her children's hearts?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are absolutely right!! This post triggered me big time. In the end reality is that we handle it all. We have to deal with our own children and then deal with the OC and his or her own feelings as well. In the end it is all on us, isnt it? We the betrayed try so hard to make it all better for all the kids. I wonder how many OW think about our children?

All I ever heard from her was ME ME ME ME MINE MINE MINE MINE...Made me sick...Felt sorry for her soul. How do you not think about these kids that are innocent to all of this and yes are now thrust into a very difficult and complicated situation. She insisted that we tell the kids right away and when we didnt she through fits then went as far as sending snail mail with the OCs name all over the envelope with our last name following hers (which legally she does not carry H's name). We asked her to please stop because our children didnt know yet and often get the mail from the postman...What did she say to that? "I dont care my child will not be treated like a dirty little secret".

Ok Im going to stop now because this really has triggered me and I am beyond that now...I refuse to go back to that point in my life...I am thankful that I have found this place...You all just validate me and the emotions that I have gone through...I just wished I wouldve found you all sooner...

I can relate so much to everyone here, but in a different way. For me it was Xmm doing all these things. He has no children with his W, I had three others with my H. Xmm was always me me me, he didn't care how things effected my children. He is the one who made sure any and everyone knew the truth about the kids (him being the bio dad), he contacted my family and did what he could to make my life miserable.

Thanks, Star, for the clarification. You hit my meaning exactly on target.

Everyone else, it looks like my post was pretty triggering. I'm sorry for that and the pain that you may have felt on reading what I have to say. Seeming to defend an OW in this situation can surely bring up a lot of feelings; the pain of these situations is utterly stunning in its intensity and magnitude.

I am not trying to defend the OW's actions. What she did was unethical and terribly destructive. That she is now terrified by the consequences of those actions is, in my mind, utterly unsurprising -- and quite "right" in both the sense of being the "right" thing to feel, and also the "just" thing to feel.

I have great compassion for her. She is left utterly without support, a single mom with a child to support and no partner in the picture. I, too, am in that position, though I'm the betrayed partner and not the other woman. Still, our terror for our children must surely spring from the same source.

So, though I recognize that her own unethical actions have brought her to this place, I also I sincerely hope that she finds the support she needs to rebuild her life and find an ethical, compassionate path for herself and her child. Her terror is, if she can realize it, a wonderful guide. It can teach her, if she will allow it to, better choices for the future.

Lots of people don't learn from their mistakes, and almost none of us learn everything we could possibly learn from them. It takes a lifetime of contemplation to get there, but I hope she does. If she's the only parent the OC will have on a regular basis, the best thing that can happen for the OC is that she become the best, most ethical, strongest person that she can be. She has the opportunity. I just hope she has the support structure to do it. It's a hard, hard road she's got ahead of her.

nevermind....

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>