My H had decided to relinquish his parental rights to OC because OW won't let us see OC anymore. Then, after some consideration, H decided not to relinquish, but give OW full legal custody if she would agree to drop arrears.

I guess my H just wanted not to have to fight w/ OW anymore about OC. But, he feels that if he's paying CS he should get to visit OC. OW says she'll only drop arrears if he gives her full custody and agrees to NC. But then, he's paying CS for a child he won't even know or get to be with.

Can those of you dealing with OC give me your opinions on C/NC. How is it working for you?

Especially those of you whose OW is being difficult about visits/custody.....Contact or none?

We're so confused, and just tired of fighting OW about it. We don't have any money, it costs nearly $300 to file papers and serve OW....how are we supposed to fight for this little girl?? Is there any chance a court will just order OW to allow visits as long as H is paying CS?

Sorry, a lot of questions. I just don't know what to do!

Okay, FIRST if H wants visits.........a judge will allow it, unless there is a PROOF (abuse) why it should not be allowed. SO if you want C then go for it--there is NOTHING she can do about it. Just make sure that it is very detailed & written up legally in a court order.

And I think TECHNICALLY, a woman/person CANNOT say, I'll drop arrears IF you do this.....I believe that is illegal & you should talk to an attorney about that and/or TELL the Judge when you do go in.

I believe that it can be considered 'duress', or her pressuring you into something. kwim?
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Second, I think there are a TON of differing factors that go into deciding on C or NC.

I think it makes it harder to heal the marital relationship completely. There is always some form of intereferance & drama of OW, the A is totally not ever forgotten. IT is always right there w/ you.

I think C w/ OC creates unnecessary stress on the marital relationship. I can't really word this the way I want but basically I am against C.

C w/ OW will continue in some form forever & she will alwyas be a part of your life. I'm telling you, that is very unhealthy.

I regret our entire C ordeal & wish we would have just left it all alone & never started it.

I know not everyone feels this way but I do.

I think it was a big mistake.

IT was stressful on everyone including OC who now had to go back & forth between 2 homes & OC felt she could not really be open & honest about her feelings for fear of upsetting one parent if she showed love to the other. (mostly afraid of upsetting OW feelings for liking/loving us) IT was very sad.

Our children were hurt in different ways. Directly by OW (verbally) & then by having this 'sister' unexpectedly thrust upon them, no matter how gently we tried to introduce her. THen the younger ones were hurt by not being able to see their 'sister' regularly when they wanted like their other siblings.

IT was a mess.

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It is a HUGE decision to make.

You must think about it thouroughly & decide together.

No one can make it for you we can only give you our opinions & experiences.

WE will support you no matter what you do but remember to make your decision based on what is best for your family & what you want NOT what you think you 'should' do or feel pressured to do, otherwise you will resent your decision.

I absolutely think the courts will order OW to allow contact if he's paying child support. We've not gone to court (money issue also), but if XOW refuses contact H says we will go to court. We do not have regular custody, and just because the court awards you custody, it does not keep XOW from saying/doing things to make your life miserable. I can also see the point of paying for a child you'll never see. When we 1st found out about OC, h was leaning toward NC. (We've had contact, I think it was an initial reaction.) But I made sure to warn him that if he was paying CS, he had better not sign any agreement giving up any rights. If you pay CS, you have rights to that child whether H wants to use them or not is his decision.

CS and visitation is 2 totally different issues.
It is not up to OW it is up to the judge. the judge will decide what is best for the child not what is best for its mother.

We are in contact with my stepson. We live 800 miles from him, so we dont see him very often but we do when we can.

My H and my children talk to him often on the phone and by e-mail.

He talks to me ocasionally but not very often. I
try to include him and make him feel like he is a part of our family.
It is almost Valentines day (which is a BIG thing where we live) So I will do the same for him that we do for our kids.
I pray that someday that he will learn to love me as I love him.

Lori

And I think TECHNICALLY, a woman/person CANNOT say, I'll drop arrears IF you do this.....I believe that is illegal & you should talk to an attorney about that and/or TELL the Judge when you do go in.

Its not illegal if the OW wants to give up her rights to the arrears. I agreed to give up $900 on arrears some 9 years ago if he agreed to go to family counseling. I signed the paperwork at the AG's office stating that I was waiving my rights to the arrears calculated up to that point.

And I even ended up screwed in this regards because after I signed, he ended up only going to one visit and then refused to go again. So I learned to be very specific with what I asked for after that and I have never agreed again to waive arrears after that even though I have been asked several times. My ex is now almost $10K in the hole and if it takes the rest of his life, he will pay what is owed.

CS and visation/custody are two different issues. Even if the bio-parent is not paying you can not keep them away from child. It's not in the best interest of the child. Again, like Stormy said, if you agree to sign off on the money then that is it. I would have it done with an attorney though. I'm in settlement stages right now with xmm and my attorney told me some things that were very interesting to say the least, so I'd just make sure what ever your husband does he has an attorney look over it and help him out with it.

AVNL--

The others are right-- the xOW CAN choose to drop all arrears--UNLESS the arrears are owed to the STATE (this only happens IF xOW was on public assistance before CS was established).

Yes, CS and Visitation are 2 separate issues, require seperate paperwork and hearing (unless both actions were filed together, usually they are dealt with together)...

I think some VERY important things to remember are--

They are 2 sepearate issues because a child is NOT something that deserves to have a price tag on its foot-- i.e. if the father is a complete IDIOT and BROKE and cannot pay $$$$$ -- that has NOTHING to do with his ability to love his child and be a father. Fathers can be AWEFUL husbands, employees, friends.. etc-- but be the most loving and attentive fathers (I know this because my father was a JOKE of a husband and had no money- a lifelong "dreamer"....yet he was the most awesome and loving father, ever. He was our hero.

And the same goes for the other side of the fence--- IF ANYONE believes they can have a successful and truly loving relationship with a child that they ONLY see to reduce child support--or to "stick it" to an xOW who wants NC-they are kidding themselves, and they are also doing (I belive) MORE of in injustice to that child than a decision for NC.

FURTHER-- (grrrrr <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) The xOW or any woman who actually has the NERVE to demand and beg for this man's $$$$$$ and SAY YOU CANNOT SEE THE CHILD-- ha! This is soooooo f'ed up. Pa-lease, like a woman has the RIGHT to demand money and say the guy should pay CS??? (unless he is abusive, OF COURSE) is OUT-HER-FREAKIN-MIND. If you file cases w/the court-- you give up your ultimate right and decision to parent the child 100% WITHOUT the court deciding for you!

This xOW of yours, AVictim-- she has no LEVERAGE on you or your husband- whatsoever.

The "deal" is---- if SHE RALLIES for NC and SHE WANTS to sever all ties -- the SHE GOES WITHOUT CS, that is the only deal that "she" can control!OR NO DEAL!!! (unless YOUR H wants this also, wholeheartedly!!) Your H can SEE HIS CHILD,not because of CS, only-- but because that is WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. This is his child too and she wears NO PANTS IN THE COURT SYSTEM OR IN YOUR H's life or M...

There will be this one-time (truly though times are hard) minimal filing fee- a DNA test (if not already) and if it is your H's for sure-- THE COURT WILL force visitation-- this is HER FATHER! Take her a** to court or I'll come there and drag her for you, LOL-- she WILL lose on this issue.

The court WILL take small payments towards arrears each month on top of CS. My H only pays 10.00 per month towards a $2,000 arrear debt.

KEEP THE ARREARS-- AND KEEP YOUR SANITY AND YOUR POSITION STRONG! This way if H wants C-- he shows her he is NOT to be screwed with, and neither is his relationship w/OC if he and you choose that.

As far as contact in general, I've said enough so far--- and that'd be 20 more paragraphs, LOL. In a nut shell- we all have a personal threashold for pain and mess-- mine is UP. CONTACT would have destroyed our M and family at this point, and I will not allow anyone, not even a child, to hurt my childen or me in even the slightest way. My feelings and my childrens feelings MUST come first and I must be selfish- its about time. I have a family of my own to raise and keep safe. Maybe someday- I am totally open to when my kids are OLDER and more secure w/themselves and our family again.

Be very careful what you and H wish for.. what is so sad is that C (for many if not most) is the surest way to have to suck up more hurt and pain.. its not easy no matter how innocent or cute the baby is- that has nothing to do with the idea of OC and having OW CO-PARENTING w/an xow.

<small>[ January 23, 2005, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Wife30:
<strong> If you pay CS, you have rights to that child whether H wants to use them or not is his decision. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wrong.

xMM pays CS but has NO RIGHTS. None. Zip. Zilch.

For specific reasons... reasons that I AM PRETTY SURE-- were for his choices also-- NOT YOURS only!!! You can't just go to a court and say "i just want his money be he cannot see the child" FOR NO REASON-- so go ahead with that one !!!!!!
Nice try.

What a TRAVESTY how you would GLOAT away about the F'ed up life your little one will embark upon -- yeah real nice thing to gloat about.

Sad for these little ones affected by overly horny people.

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<small>[ January 23, 2005, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

Gio,
I know that you know nothing of my case.

For the record, if he took me to court to try to get visitation or even joint legal custody, it would be one hell of a battle for him.

He has done and said things that are on record which would hinder any chances a normal man would have.

LOL LOL You two are pathetic...

Lonely why don't you collect your low life Cheery and crawl back to your slum life...

I pity your children..they are doom to live with mothers that have no sense of morality...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He has done and said things that are on record which would hinder any chances a normal man would have. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes --- exactly my point also---there are REASONS for the CS without visition- no WOMAN can control this stuff UNLESS she takes a child on the run, my dear.

And according to YOUR POSTS-- his decision for NC, not yours---- it was his--

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<small>[ January 23, 2005, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>

And you are here, LonelyGirl, because......????


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gio, you would know all about that, or you wouldnt be here....... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ouch, I need a fingertip bandaid for that stab! LOL

Dear Lonelygirl-- I have 5 brothers, a father and a stepfather, 2 sons... I KNOW men, I UNDERSTAND what happened. I UNDERSTAND that they let their d*cks confuse them. Its a part of our history, our world, of life.

But a DESIRABLE AND TRULY SEXY DIVA LIKE myself is NOT willing to compromised their integrity and health and baby's future CAUSE they were as HORNY, doll.

Please remember in the future NOT to give up those goodies for free--- as easy as MANY men thoughout history are known to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by giovanna123:
<strong> [QUOTE]

And according to YOUR POSTS-- his decision for NC, not yours---- it was his-- </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Definitely. He wanted no visitation "at this time". (I'm sure he's working hard on that M)

BUT he will have one hell of a time getting ANY visitation if he changes his mind in the future (according to my attorney) because of what he's gone on record saying, in addition to his physical actions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wizard:
<strong>

I pity your children..they are doom to live with mothers that have no sense of morality...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK. Stereotying again.

For the record, I work part time, I help out in the classroom, go on field trips, bake goodies for the school, participate in school events, enroll my children in extracurricular activities, I'm on the yearbook committee, I take my children on regular vacations, we go to cultural festivals, artistic presentations (music, theatre, etc) I devote very ounce of my being to my children.

I work 25 hours a week and I am with my children 143 hours of the week, and I LOVE IT!

Because I made a mistake and trusted a man I shouldn't have trusted that means my children are doomed for life?

I think not.

I have to disagree with yah Cheery... As long as you keep defending your position ...

Your children will be doom to repeat the same mistakes....

If you have that attitude on here... I can only imagine what you will teach your children.

Where is your role in all this...?? What are you going tell your children "that mommy is so stupid that she believes what any man tells her"?

And another thing...Where do you get off...

Why don't you work full time???
... OH yah..thats right..you live off of other people's money! Stupid me>>> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />