This weekend has definately taken it's toll on myself and my marriage. I am feeling empty and contemplating life without H.<P>We went out Saturday night, he was very distant, which upset me, me being upset, upset H, he flipped out, screamed at me in a public place and left me, 25 miles from home with no ride home. (we live out of town) Literally locked me out of my own car and drove off with me standing there alone. We were with friends, so I wasn't totaly stranded, but the friend he left me with who H knew would take care of me is male. H knows friend would jump at the chance to be with me, maybe he doesn't think I would be with him, don't know. I admit I seriously considered doing something out of anger, but did not because I know that I am married.<P>Through lots of fighting, it's come down to this. I am tired (emotionally and physically) of trying to work on this marriage. I am tried of not being "wanted", but question if what I want is unrealistic. I don't have it within me to tell H I Love You, even when he says it. I wonder about life with someone else, would anyone else be any different? I know that I stay mostly because of my kids. I am losing my love for H very quickly and I don't see him caring much about that.<P>Don't know what I am looking for right now. I guess just trying to work things out in my head. Deciding what I want to do with my life and make these decisions as rationally as I can. <P>

hello shoni, will write more later, but wanted to send you a hug! I think I have been in a similar place...one where we really have to look at what we are doing and thinking. Are the decisions we are making right? At what cost? At who's expense?<BR>As I read your post, I remembered that time, and the very tough choices, the pain and lonliness that engulfed me at the time. <BR>You will be fine shoni, think of what you really need to be happy in life.

OOOOOHHHHHHHHH that makes me so mad.... That is something my husband would do. I even hesitate to go anywhere with him without my own car, because if he doesn't like the look on my face he could leave me. With his first wife, he didn't like her attitude while they were on vacation. He told me he drove her and the kids to an airport and put them on a plane back home, and he went to Minnesota to be with his family for 6 months. It has nothing to do with me, (my husband's attitude.)<P>We went to look at some lake property yesterday, that he has seen previously without me. I didn't act enthused about the site. I was in a different frame of mind than where he was - I was remembering the comments he made before, after seeing it without me, and the comments he was making now.... So I wasn't thinking about the site, I was thinking about his inconsistencies in his story. I didn't lovebust - but my facial expressions did not show enthusiasm. He got angry and walked back to the truck without looking at the site anymore. I was with him, and wondered if he would leave me there. I am to the point where I feel like I need my car everywhere I go.<P>Your husband is a conflict avoider? Mine is. Some people think that means that they don't start conflict. Wrong. It means they have no conflict resolution skills, and a good offense is a good defense.<P>I understand where you are at, Shoni. I'm sorry. Don't have any advice for you, am hoping we get some here from others. <P>

Oh Shoni........<P>I'm sorry you got upset and then this incident occurred.<P>What the hell happened between your last post and this one?<P>I have to go to work, but will be back on later (possibly before you go home).<P>Need more information about events to be able to help you through........<P>You know I love ya!!!! And I wish FHL was here!!! <P>Hang in there and we can figure this all out.<P>HUGS and Strength,<P>Sheba

Shoni...just here for a minute. More later. That was a mean thing for your H to do, regardless of how he felt.<P>Liked what cl said, and I think you are asking yourself good questions. Don't know cl's definition of happiness, but to me it is an emotion that comes and goes and is subject to how other people treat you somewhat. I think you need to look for a little deeper happiness or inner peace that is not as fleeting. That hopefully grows with age, I know mine did. Faith, too.<P>Talk to you later...<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Shoni, <P>I don't know why some men do this kind of thing. I really don't understand. Maybe it's time for that 2x4 I suggested in your other thread.<P>I do understand the feeling of emptiness and the desire to give up. I get tored of not feeling wanted too. Those feelings are so real to me. My W does not tell me "I love you". In fact, I'm sad to say that I don't remember the last time she did whether written or spoken. But, I keep going. One day at a time. <P>Time does heal. I think we get exhausted from trying so hard when we expect too much too soon. Step back from your situatiuon and look at objectively. Is there progress over time? <P>Hang in there Shoni - I'm praying for you. <P>SHA

Inner happiness - yes that is attainable even though we live with a nit wit that needs a 2x4 every other month.<P>What you want is not irrational. Is what you want attainable? That is another question. How much is husband capable of without him committing to help himself? <P>I think for me, at this point, I have lowered my expectations of him - that I have insulated myself...???? For the most part at least. And I try to find solutions to his shortcomings for myself. I guess it is part of doing what I CAN, instead of wishing and hoping he would change. <P>((((hugs))))

The man I saw Saturday night was NOT my H, at least not the one I married. I see that his anger is getting worse, I see him doing things that I can not believe he is doing. Am I making him this way? Am I turing him into this angry person? There was such anger in his voice when he screamed at me Sat. night, even though I don't know what he said. I am so hurt that he could lock me out and drive away from me. I still can not believe he did that. I so badly wanted to fall into the arms of our friend for comfort, I had to keep talking to myself all night long, saying that is not the right thing to do. What have we become?<P>We can both argue back and forth about who puts who first, about who causes the problems, blah, blah, blah. Both have valid points. I KNOW that I am still holding resentment, that's what I became upset about to begin with that night. But I can also argue that if he had been giving me the affection I have so desperately been lacking I wouldn't have started thinking about the past.<P>I want him to hold me, to REALLY hold me like he needs me and wants me and desires me. Not to do it out of obligation. I can tell the difference, and I don't want the obligation crap: With his arm flopped over me just waiting for me to tell him to roll over and go to sleep. I DON'T WANT THAT. I want him to be worried about loosing me, or atleast know that he doesn't want to lose me. By him leaving me with another man, who H KNOWS wants me, he sure didn't show that he was concerned about loosing me. I know I'd get bashed for the friendship I have with this guy, I know it is pretty borderline, and H doesn't care!!! He left me with him! Maybe he just trusts me, I don't know.<P>Don't know what the hell's up with him! He just calls and asks to go to lunch like nothings going on. I am so confused, so tired of being confused. So I'm going. Am wishing to make sense out of this mess, but will probably come back even more confused.

Shoni<BR>I'm so sorry!!!!!!<BR>Your H sounds like he probably does trust you. It would never dawn on mine that I might look elswhere. He trusts me that much. I told him once that I was a bit insulted by that. That maybe he didn't think anyone else could be attracted.<BR>I do think the 2X4 is a good idea!!! When you're done with it send it here.<BR>When I read your story I thought about my situation. You know what? I would be the one to drive off and leave my H. I think he knows that if he did it I wouldn't care at this point.<BR>Maybe that's the problem. You care too much!<BR>Shoni, maybe it's time to care more about you and less about the marriage. You can't do it all on your own and you're running out of strength. Time to rejuvenate yourself? Be a little selfish?<BR>there is something in that Forgiveness Workbook about becomeing realistic with our ideals. FHL might remember better than me.<BR>Take care of yourself!!!!<BR>

Well, now I've got words again, and will wait to see if the action follows.<P>He said he knows he shouldn't have left me, or at the very least came back. I told him I felt like he wasn't concerned about loosing me because he was willing to leave me with a bunch of single guys and no way to get home. He said he doesn't think of our "friend" (the one in particular) as a single guy, he just thinks of him as a friend. So maybe he really doesn't realize the threat there to our marriage, and I plan to talk to him about that. (scared to ruin the friendship, but I would rather lose a friend than my H)<P>I tried to explain that his love and affection need to be daily. Without it, I slip into my resentment. I feel like things are going back to the way they were. Maybe it's wrong that I am that way, maybe I need to work on changing, don't know. But I feel that the love and affection are something I deserve in my marriage. Not passiveness.<P>Boy, I could just babbel on here all day...<P>cl- I've asked those questions, I'm still here. My kids are in the top of my mind and I will do everything I can, wear myself out completely before I give up THEIR family. What I want is the love and affection that I know H is capable of giving. I just need it daily, not monthly!<P>tnt- Wasn't it you who almost got left in the "deserted industrial part of Bismarck, ND" ? I for the life of me don't think we have a deserted industiral part of town, but I would've come and got you!!! He's never done anything like this before and won't again - cause I'll have the keys! Yes, he's a conflict avoider. Don't you know if you pretend it never happened it goes away? I'm trying to make him understand it don't work like that!<P>Sheba- I told you before NOT to ask for more information!!! I'll e-mail you if I get a chance. Don't want to use up all the memory on the MB server! LOL<P>FHL- Haven't seen you for a long time! How are you? I know that I need to be happy inside, before I can look elsewhere for happiness. I think I have that. I love my life, am happy with where I am. But I need activeness, not passiveness from H. And I also need to see him looking at how I am going to feel because of his actions toward me (like when he leaves me stranded). <P>SHA- YES, I need a 2x4! Yes, I see improvements, that's what keeps me struggling through this maze. His actions this weekend are not typical of him. He was drinking whiskey, which he can not handle and I suspect that may have helped to inflate his irritability. Not an excuse for what he did, just saying it wasn't typical behavior for him.<P>WAS- I told him that at lunch. That he knows how much I care, how dedicated I am to this marriage, and I think it gets used against me. I told him I feel like he can treat me like crap because he knows I'll just be there. He can leave me with a bunch of single men because he doesn't think I'd leave him. I told him I want HIM, but won't be treated like crap to be with him. I have gone into that "self-protective" mode. Problem with that is if I stay there too long I know our marriage is bound for failure. I explained to him why I go into the self-protective mode and that I will stay here until I feel safe. I wish that H of yours would get off his butt too. Maybe we should line 'um all up and go down the row with the 2x4!!! How are you feeling? Are you taking care of yourself? Sorry H is such a jerk when you are needing to be cared about. Mine did the same thing! Left me at home when our daughter was less than 24 hours old to go with friends. Sorry that things are not going so good right now. I wish there was something I could say, I will keep you in my thoughts!<P>Thank-you, all of you!<P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

Shoni<BR>Self protection is okay for a while. Sometimes it's necessary! <BR>Sometimes I think they deserve a little scare. I had a lot of fun the night the bartender "hit on me" and my son came home talking about it. Of course I was totally oblivious. I had no idea I was being hit on. My son had to inform me. He told his dad too. That made H feel a little less safe!!!<BR>Things are a bit better her. I have learned to accept a lot of things. <BR>Funny thing is that Saturday night, he stayed out all night. Came home at 7:30 AM. He could have been anywhere. He left at 2:30 the afternoon before. You know what. I really didn't care that much. It bothered me but I didn't panic. I am getting better with practice. Or maybe I'm liking myself more?<BR>I could really go for the 2X4 thing though!!!

You know if things keep going the way that they're going financially - I think I am going to start a traveling 2x4 business!!!!<P>I can picture it now....Just me and Britt (the dog) driving around to all your houses delivering WONK-EMS!!!!!<P>I'll put a sign on the truck that says:<P>"Have a Whack-A-Doodle problem?"<P> "Try a WHONK -EM!!!"<BR>(they're cheap, quick and effective!!!)<P>What do you think?<P>Hugs to you all,<P>Sheba<P>PS - But Shoni - you know that I have to know EVERYTHING!!!!! LOL!!!!

Sheba - Don't know how to do a wink, but I know how to do happy faces:<P>How much would you charge? I'm willing to cash in my Roth account!!!!! LOL <P>Shoni -<P>Yup, it was me in Bismark ND - Division Hwy sound familiar? About 9:30 PM it is pretty deserted. <BR>

tnt, I knew that was you on cnn! You will probably never hear the end of being left on the highway median! Gads, the 2x4 is on the way. Glad you have a sense of humor about it now. <BR>Sheba, are you going to charge for this service? It is sort of a community service wouldn't you say? <BR>On a serious note, you are saying that you know what you want and need to be happy, but H keeps failing to provide that? Then do not look to him for it! You count on him, things are moving alonf nicely, he is being affectionate and caring, and WHAM, he lets you down. Seems like love and affection are pretty easy needs to be fulfilled from our POV, but is it realistic to expect it from him any more frequently than he is giving it? You know he is capable, but not at the level you want? <BR>Who's H is this? Sounds like some are sharing......ws? drained?<BR>

Shoni,<BR>I'm sorry you H was such a jerk on Saturday..... I can imagine my H doing something like that (now). It's really scary, and I'm glad you are all right. I got stranded one night in Juarez, Mexico back in my college days. Luckily I saw someone I knew that gave me a ride home. <P>Butterfly<P>PS~~~~<BR>Geez, I'm gone for a few days, and my fryin' pan gets replaced by a 2x4....... HEHEHEHE <P>Sheba, can I be your partner..... We could offer a 2 for 1 deal.... <P>------------------<BR>My favorite quote....<BR>"Hello, this is God. I will be handeling your problems today. I will not need your help, so sit back and have a good day."<BR>

Sheba - Butterfly <BR>With the Sheba Sheba Sheba thread, you both know where we all live, so how aboutta estimate, uh, there young lady? <P>Also, you guys could sell Shoni and I a data sheet of phone numbers of all MB's participants so that when we get stranded we know who to call..... Mb'ers! <P>And Britt could bite 'em to death just for pleasure<P>But I suppose we should ask WS if she wants rent for the 2x4's..... <P>Cl - I knew I'd be famous one day. Just didn't think it would be from being "left behind...." Thanks for the hugs on the other thread... You are great.<P>Shoni, you have some great friends here. Keep us posted, okay? You aren't that far from me, only 5 hours..... Wanna go to Hooters and do a spy routine with me? <p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited September 07, 1999).]

cl,<P>I don't feel like I am expecting too much because he agrees that what I am asking for is not too much. He agrees with MB principals and has said that if it is what I need, than it is not too much to ask.<P>I do not need to look to him to be happy, but if he is not going to be giving me anything, I am not going to drain myself to keep giving to him. If I don't get anything from him, why be married? I didn't expect anything overnight, but I do expect something. I feel like the not expecting anything for each other is what brought us to the affair. I didn't expect affection and I sure wasn't going to meet his need for sex, when he couldn't meet my need for affection. So, he was unhappy, I was unhappy, thus the affair. I don't want to go back to the passive cycle we were in at that time.<P>He understands that logically if he wants me to meet his needs (have sex with him) when he wants me to, then I need to be getting my needs met (the affection) from him that I need. It all looks so great and easy on paper. Problem is that it is harder for him to do it.<P>I have a feeling after lunch today things will be better for awhile. However, I do not know how to sustain that without the fighting in between.<P>------------------<BR>Shoni<P><BR>

Well, it seems to me that some of these betraying spouses need to be turned into "believers."<P>After my disappearing act last week, I'll bet my H isn't going to say, "You aren't going any further than 25 feet from the house." <P>He is being incredibly sweet and affectionate to me now. I'm talking about REAL kisses and hugs, along with COMPLIMENTS!!!! And, the other night, when he said he loved me, I asked him how much. His reply? "A whole bunch of bunches!" That's what he used to tell me when we were dating and after we first married. I thought he'd forgotten! <P>I'm still having some awful issues right now. I get angry about the cheating (especially angry because I can't face down the slut), and I don't think he's told me the whole truth, but I can maintain Plan A as long as he keeps trying.<BR> <BR>We're going to counseling togethernext Wednesday!

sweetpea, this is wonderful news!! Counseling with your h?! (((hugs)))<BR>Shoni, it really does not sound like you are expecting too much from him. Especially since he agrees that he can give this! So where is the problem? You need, you tell, he gives. Sounds pretty simple, huh? <BR>Not so....unfortunately there are minds and emotions in the equation that cannot be predicted at all. Maybe he lets some strange thoughts and emotions get in the way of doing what he really wants to do, and that is be good to you, to be a great husband!! <BR>This sounds cyclical shoni? Is it? And when it is coming is there a point that you see where something can be done to stop it? Some intervention?

Shoni, what he did was absolutely unacceptable. No defense. However, I sense that you allow him to determine your mood and he allows you to determine his. If that is the case, you have to learn how to break the cycle. This all started because he was acting distant. Did you give him any reason to feel that way? If you did, he didn't have to react negatively, but talk it out instead. If you didn't, his distant attitude may have had nothing to do with you, but you personalized it. Then he responded in kind. Since he is not the King of Articulation (my H either) he may have resorted to whatever means of communication he had to make his point (ditching you).<P>It takes two to fight. If one refuses long enough, you will not fight much. Unfortunately I did this by avoiding all conflict. Now I push for resolution, but in a calm, structured manner. It is working. If there has been one significant change in our relationship, it has been this, and I have got to say it would not have not happened unless I learned the techniques and had the steely resolve to carry them out even when they have felt unnatural and uncomfortable. For his part, my H has cooperated, but it took a little work and I had to turn a deaf ear a few times until he got the message he could not end the conflict by saying a few unkind remarks.<P>Shoni, if you decide to stay in a marriage after betrayal, then it is OK to feel any feeling you feel and take all the time you need to recover. However, you also must also be committed to recovering and not sticking in resentment. Easier said than done. I know.<P>Ask yourself this...could anyone love your kids as much as your H does? Any other partner you have when your kids are young will somehow be in competition with them for your affection and attention. Many would disagree and of course there are exceptions, especially when dads are losers, but you seem to say he is a good dad. <P>You have seemed to have made progress when you look through your postings. My personal opinion is your marriage has great potential. It's challenges are a less than perfect beginning, your own parents as role models of married life, the affair and being so young. <P>Hope tonight was better.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13