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I think it's interesting that this warning was written in response to me, when the last thing I wrote on this topic last night was a direct quote from Dr. Harley himself. Please explain why I am being singled out here for a warning for posting quotes from Dr. Harley himself?
writer, the mod's post was directly after one of pop's. I didn't take that it was intended specifically to you. Not sure how you got that idea?

Last edited by maritalbliss; 05/31/11 10:31 AM.

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Originally Posted by maritalbliss
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I think it's interesting that this warning was written in response to me, when the last thing I wrote on this topic last night was a direct quote from Dr. Harley himself. Please explain why I am being singled out here for a warning for posting quotes from Dr. Harley himself?
writer, the mod's post was directly after one of pop's. I didn't take that it was intended specifically to you. Not sure how you got that idea?

At the top of the post, it said Re:writer1, even though there were several posts in between my last one and the warning. I always thought the RE at the top meant who the post was in response to, but I could be mistaken about that.


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Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by writer1
[quote=TheRoad]
I don't care much what anonymous people on an internet forum think about me anymore, which is why I don't come here very often these days. But it does bother me when someone who has never lived an experience proclaims to know how it feels for those who have.

I do not dislike you. I enjoy reading your responses and felt that it has been help to others.

Road, I don't dislike you either. I'm sorry if you felt that's what I was saying. I think I just get overly sensitive sometimes to certain things that are said. That's why I've been staying away from the forum for the most part. I think it actually does me more good to not be on here at this point in the process. Sometimes this place itself acts as a trigger. But there are still some stories that I am following, so I check in now and again to see how people are doing. I think it may be time to check out again and focus on my own things for awhile.


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Originally Posted by MBsurvivor
If you have questions, concerns about moderator actions, please contact me directly.

Done.


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Originally Posted by calismile
If contact DOES NOT work for you, DON'T DO IT. Period, point blank. And if it does GO FOR IT. No one should be bashed for the choices they make for their family.

I think, in the interest of clarity, when we say "contact" that we try to be precise about whom we are referring to.

If there is C or NC with the OC, that is one matter.
And if there is C with an OC, there needs to be attorneys involved and agreements placed in writing.

However, the point that Dr Harley makes, and we repeat over and over, is that NC with the affair partner is paramount to every marriage struggling to overcome adultery.

To advocate to other posters who come to this forum that seeing a former adultery partner is "OK" .... This will not be overlooked by the MBers who actually use the MB forums to discuss MB basic concepts.




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Originally Posted by Pepperband
To advocate to other posters who come to this forum that seeing a former adultery partner is "OK" .... This will not be overlooked by the MBers who actually use the MB forums to discuss MB basic concepts.

quoted for truth.


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Originally Posted by calismile
But this thread was never intent to bash or trash another's pov which seems like some people's intent.

If contact DOES NOT work for you, DON'T DO IT. Period, point blank. And if it does GO FOR IT. No one should be bashed for the choices they make for their family.

I don't understand where you get that "bashing" is anybody's intent.

The entire purpose of this forum is to provide a place to discuss Dr. Harley's perspective on what will or will not work for marriage and recovery from infidelity. Not a place to discuss all points of view; there's a whole internet to do that in. Many people come here seeking to learn how to incorporate Dr. Harley's perspective into their marriage, and since Dr. Harley provides the board and sets the policies and asks that the board be used for discussion and learning of Marriage Builders concepts. So I don't see what the big deal is about asking that the board be used for that purpose and explaining Dr. Harley's perspective.

When I was an early teen my mother dragged me to a counselor, then dragged me to a second counselor, who talked with me a bit and then explained that since I was already seeing a counselor, it would be unethical of her to try to work with me since her approach and perspective might conflict with that of the first counselor.

Dr. Harley closed his practice years ago, but this board is one way in which he still counsels. It makes no sense to me for people to come in claiming that all points of view should be treated as valid; it sounds as unethical as one counselor interfering with another's work.


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I have to say, this thread was particularly interesting to me because in our case, we fought through the courts and now must give OM rights and visitation after a very expensive and very exhausting legal battle. We've talked about using a mediator, but in our case BH was ordered to be the one to handle all C since OC must be supervised by BH during visits with OM. We are to start that soon, so I have no idea how BH will feel after being forced to interact with OM regularly. Sometimes I really don't understand how the courts can make such irrational decisions... frown

I do know that Dr. H is dead-on about no C between me and OM. I plan to keep it 100%, though I don't know how I'll feel having to miss major events in OC's life in the future if OM is present. Dr. H went so far as to say that if OM is at OC's wedding I shouldn't be there. THAT part is what I will find hardest to accept. All other cases of NC seem doable, but big events like OC's wedding... but my M is worth it, so I'll do what I have to. I just know that I never want to see or speak to OM again, and BH is being forced to handle all communication and seems okay with that role. But what if that changes and he ends up not being able to, yet the courts are ordering it? Then what? It's certainly not easy to apply MB concepts when the courts force otherwise. frown


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Sorry to hear things didn't go in your favor wanthealing. That's a very difficult situation to be in. I can't even imagine how difficult it must be for your H knowing that he will have to spend considerable amounts of time around the OM. Your H seems like a very strong man.

It's amazing some of the things that courts will do. Yes, it is ideal to use a 3rd party mediator to handle all interactions, but unfortunately most judges know nothing about MB or concepts such as NC. This was the kind of thing I was actually referring to. No, you won't have to have direct C with the OM, but your BH will. Complete NC for the the WW, BH, and OC isn't always legally possible. That's all I was saying all along. I agree that it sucks, but I've been through this court thing before (not with my OC, but with my older kids) and I know all to well that things don't always go the way you want them to no matter how hard you fight.

I'll keep your family in my thoughts wanthealing. I know things look bleak now, but I'm confident that you and your H will work the issues that arise from this situation when they come up. One day at a time. That's all anyone can do.


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Nc between the affair partners makes TONS of sense and prevents lots of potential issues from arising. What I was mainly struck by is the need for someone to literally find a post from 6 years ago that was talking not about the dh and ow having contact but the bs and ow when in that particular situation NC midstroke essentially was not a viable option for the married couple or the child involved.

I know that Harley suggest NC with OP and I get why but it was not my husband having the contact that was the point of my initial post is all.

Pep where did I say for the wayward spouse to have contact with the other person? Where at all did I advocate that was ok? To my knowledge I didn't. I spoke of contact yes, but as we can see by the title I was inquiring about a bs and ow not the two offending parties interacting. And should a poster have a question or need clarification on what I meant they could have just asked and it would have been easily answered. I refferenced my spouse only as a means of understanding that the decision or thought process to possibly have contact between ow and myself at that time, was made by poja.

Markos I could have TOTALLY taken it wrong. But since this was a thread take from 6 years ago and then bumped up all this time later what was the point of it really? Who was it helping. Did the comments help me understand anything better than I had previously? No? Did they seem to pretty much imply or question my intellect or reasoning for wanting contact is bashing to some degree. Yes. So yes I do take some offense to that personally. But initially I was refferencing the way pops was being treated and writer1 a tad too as it just didnt seem right to me.

I know the intent of MB is to build up marriages but in no way did *I* feel that the dialouge and the manner in which it was presented was meant to aid.

And had C been our family choice and contact transpired between dh and ow would the way the comments were written have really helped me feel safe to confide my true thoughts or the reality of my situation, to be possibly simply heard or uplifted or guided? It was not so much what the message of the posters were but the way the chose to convey it.


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camismile, I have explained 3 times why I bumped this thread so I will repost my explanation, adding that I saw someone reading it in who's online:

Quote
Wow, this is an amazingly bizarre thread and I was so grateful to get to starfish's post that finally injected some sanity here. The implication that it is "adult" to friend a terrorist whose goal is the destruction of your marriage and your children's family is bizarre. You don't "get along" with a terrorist, you protect yourself from her. [lest you end up with your head cut off! nothing "adult" or virtuous about exposing yourself to foolish risks.] Having any contact with an OW will only prevent the recovery of the marriage by keeping the BS and the WS perpetually triggered. No marriage can afford that.

It is, however, an "adult" responsibility to protect your marriage and your children's family from an OW. Dr Harley advocates no contact between the married couple and the OW and, ideally, no contact with the OC.

It is scary to read some of these old threads and see how far from actual Marriage Builders concepts - and simple basic sanity - this forum once veered. It disturbs me because marriages that involve an OC need to be MORE stringent about recovery concepts, not less. For them it is a matter of survival after such a compounded trauma.

I saw someone reading it and was struck at how sad it was that you were asking how to get along with an OW and you weren't told it is a horrible idea. Rather, posters implied you should be "adult" and just accept it. crazy I saw no support here for your marriage, only for the OW and the OC. That is enabling, not supporting. It would be terrible for newcomers to believe this was Harley's stance. It is CERTAINLY NOT. Using the POJA to negotiate marriage wrecking decisions does not make a bad decision good. That is a mis-use of the POJA.

Rather, Dr Harley's advice should be followed in these circumstances:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
A mediator, paid by him, is to pick up and deliver the child so that you and your husband never have to have any contact with him.


Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The path to surviving an affair begins by never seeing or talking to the other person in the affair again. Without that condition, survival is essentially impossible. So it's extremely important for Robin to avoid seeing or talking to him ever again. Granted, the affair may be over, but I am always concerned about the possibility of it becoming rekindled. If, for some reason, it is impossible to keep him away from his daughter, I suggest that you find an intermediary, so that whenever he has visitation, he does not see or talk to Robin or you.
here

calismile, I am sorry if it seems I am attacking you, I really am not. I realize you have been placed in a horrendous situation as have most people who show up here. That is why it is MORE important that they adhere to MB concepts, not less. These marriages can't afford it. I am simply heartbroken at the destructive advice that reigned supreme on this board for so long. It makes me wonder how many marriages were lost as a result of posters substituting their own personal opinions for Dr Harley's tried and true professional advice.



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Originally Posted by calismile
And had C been our family choice and contact transpired between dh and ow would the way the comments were written have really helped me feel safe to confide my true thoughts or the reality of my situation, to be possibly simply heard or uplifted or guided? It was not so much what the message of the posters were but the way the chose to convey it.

If contact between your H and the OW had been your "family choice" then the greatest danger would not be our words, but a very tragic choice that would wreck your marriage. You would not be safe at all. Anyone who would support you on such a wreckless path would not be your friend.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by wanthealing
We've talked about using a mediator, but in our case BH was ordered to be the one to handle all C since OC must be supervised by BH during visits with OM. We are to start that soon, so I have no idea how BH will feel after being forced to interact with OM regularly. Sometimes I really don't understand how the courts can make such irrational decisions... frown

wanthealing, I believe this can probably be changed. I would ask your attorney if a replacement can be named and if not, what it will take to make that happen. Your H should not be put in that position or he will be perpetually triggered by the reminder of the affair. If you need it, you might even enlist Dr Harley to write a letter for the court. But there is no good reason, and lots of bad reasons why your H should be placed in this position. I would get this changed.

I am sorry the OM got any rights at all. frown

edited to add: I copied this post over to your thread so we can discuss it there.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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