And out I come, from behind the lurking shadows...
First I'd like to say that I appreciate everyone's input, help & time in your response's to Lost71, I know you all see progress in the past 3 weeks (is that all it's been???!!!) since I filed and he first posted. I'm impressed & grateful for the time you all put into responding.

I see progress too, and understand the potential for change, growth & rebuilding. However, I am refraining from doing the happy dance of joy because I did that in August 04. As you can see from my personal info below, that blew up in my face big-time. I gave what I had to give; I felt (and so did Lost?) the "this is better, I'm almost grateful for the A, wow!" - and then??? The Relapse! Wow. If you haven't been through relapse, you don't know what you're missing!

I appreciate your responses to my H, but I also think there are some things that he has not told, that are not clear about him. He says I have reason to be skeptical of this. Ah, yeah. Lost71 has the highest IQ of anyone I know and (as we all do I guess) naturally uses it to his own benefit. Lost71 struggles/struggled with at least 5 types of addictions in the past 12 years we've been married. Lost71 has anger management problems. That's enough to say for now, but yes, I have reason to be skeptical.

Those of you who have pointed out to him, "she sees your lips flapping, where's the action?" Yes yes yes. About a month ago I realized that I never need to hear the words "I'm gonna try to... (fix this or that, do better)." Try. Finally, some action. Too little too late??? Don't know.

I know many of you have been through this & more... but honestly now, why did you stay? I'm really curious to know. For the kids, fear of being alone, financial issues, "love", God, ???

Naturally I struggle with the addiction/anger/depression issues of my H, but that was old hat. Now we add trust issues, respect issues, commitment issues, sex issues (I'm truly disgusted how he could sleep with her AND me back & forth from bed to bed for months)... my own anger, and an OC!!! (And psycho OW). It does tend to start to seem insurmountable. I mean, these are John Gray's Big 4 Marriage success predictors(Trust, Respect, Commitment, Passion) - all smushed to a pulp in our relationship.

And all this on the RISK that he MIGHT be able to change/control his behavior for the rest of our lives? I know our kids don't want us divorced, but they really don't need him deciding every 3-5 years that he's "not happy". Boy, do I know those code words now!!! I read the 50 signs of affairs posting. That would be my #1. Back in 1996 I just couldn't understand what was wrong with us! It's all a little clearer now.
Anyway, he is a serial cheater. WHY should I think he CAN change? Of course he WANTS to. He WANTED to in August when he came home. He understood EXACTLY what he did to me and how much pain it caused, and less than 2 months later got right back into it. He never wanted to do this to me, and he did it anyway. Over and over and over and over. Lies lies lies lies lies. Anger anger anger. Blame blame blame. And so mean! Wow is that a Love-Buster. Whenever things don't go his way, anger, selfishness, and temporary amnesia about the pain that he has caused. That's not love. That much I do know.

Reading the prior posts, frankly, many a time I related best to CodyG. Me me me me me me me... Yes, Cody. That is the narcissist. That is how they think. I know you said your Dad was nothing like "this Lost71" and I don't know exactly what that means, but believe me that your anger and disgust with this behavior echoes my own, and your posts have made me nod emphatically several times.

So from I what I can see from MB, is that everyone's story is different, and everyone's story is the same. It is all highly individual; what people can give, what they can take, and how they can heal. I don't know yet what the future holds for us, but as I have told H, I need time and I need space. He has a lot more to work on than this marriage... he knows the issues I think. And I don't think I'll know for a while whether I could or would forgive him, trust him, risk my life on him again. Well, so far, that's my version of "radical honesty."

Very curious on everyone's REAL reasons for working through A. Input appreciated!

Oh how I can relate. Addiction, more than one, high IQ, but so stupid, lies, blame, blame, blame, me, me, me, anger management problems, psycho OW, trust, respect, disgust etc. etc. Nearly everything you said.

You're right everyone's story is the same, but different.

Why did I stay. 22 years and not all bad, much in common, kids - although adults now, our lifestyle and what we've accomplished yada, yada, yada.

Not easy - - days when I wonder what the heck I'm doing. No easy answers. And - - so it goes....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Welcome aboard Mrs. Lost. Been a LOT of people waiting for you.

*Fluke offers Mrs. Lost his chair and gets her a cup of coffee and an ash tray.*

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-P

Mrs. Lost,

Well, I just want to let you know that I chose to stay with my H because I did love him, and still do. As you can see from my sig line, I had 2 As and Sailorman(used to post by that moniker) had multiple. I can tell you that it took the slap in the face/kick in the butt of my last A and resulting P for us to see what we were doing to eachother. I also understand that with the boards being annonymous that you can only base your "judgements" on what other's provide, and that many choose to only offer a sliver of what's really going on. But, you have from now until August to see how much Mr. Lost is willing to change, and if those changes aren't what needs to happen(meaning he needs to change more than he does) then you can let the D proceed as planned. Or, if there are enough changes to postpone the D to see if any further changing will be done, or more permanent changes will happen, that can be done as well.

I say that during these next few months, work your yourself, and at least consider some joint counseling w/Mr. Lost. At this point, you really don't have anything more to loose, right? I'm not saying to welcome him back home with open arms at this point, just to at least consider it.

This situation is THE hardest for a marriage to survive. If you even have a small amount of love left for Mr. Lost, see what you can do to save it. Being almost 5 yrs post D-day, and almost 12 from the FIRST D-day and getting ready to celebrate our 16th anniversary, it's worth it if you both are willing to work at it!

I've been on both sides of the infidelity coin and neither are fun, but both are survivable and worth the effort, no matter the outcome!

Not sure if any of this has helped, but it's what I see at this point!

Tigger

OH I am SO happy you are here!!!!!! SO nice to meet you, finally!

I was SURE there would be 'more to it' once you joined us! LOL There always is isn't there?
***********************
***********************
So why did I stay? I can't narrow it down to one factor. Initially it was out of my love for my oldest son. I did not want him to only have a part-time dad.

When H finally revealed the complete truth (YEARS later) I was so confused. IT was not another A but it was still crazy. I was ready, @ times to throw my values out the door & just be done w/ it all.

But in my better, rational moments....For me, I would not be getting remarried (@ least until my kids were grown) So I would be a single mom for @ least the next 18 years since the youngest was a newborn.

I definately did not want to be a single mom like OW. We homeschool, I did not want to give that up. I did not want a failed marriage, no matter who's fault it was. I did not want to think OW 'won' by successfully breaking up our marraige. I believed God would honor my committment to stay married. By this time we had been married 10 years, I did not want to consider 10 years of my life a waste.

It is different reasons for everyone. It is completely individual.

I didn't want to go back to that feeling of 'just being roomates' either. I wanted a GOOD marriage. I was able to see what GOd had done in our lives up to that point, even though my H had {essentially} still been untruthful. I saw the beautiful children we had created. I began to see the potential we had.

Again, I decided to just go for it, keep on hoping we could make it through this together.

H & I have come to a POJA=========> we will NOT get D so we are committed to making this the best marriage & doing whatever it takes to achieve that goal.

I am no longer afraid of 'looking the fool', I got past that. Who cares? So what if H ended up lieing to me again someday...doesn't discount the love I feel for him or our kids feel for him. It would be his loss & stupidity. Why would/should I feel stupid? I didn't do anything wrong here. I was no longer afraid to take this risk. kwim?

My kids get to enjoy an intact stable home life & H & I DO love each other. WE are making it work.

sincerely,
kt

edited for TMI

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: ktbunch ]</small>

Hi Mrs Lost! I am momto3boys...I can REALLY relate to all of your feelings! MY WH and I are currently seperated...do I want to work on the marriage? i dont know? I would love to have my family back, but at what risk? I cannot live in the constant "what if" and as you say every 5 years of "i am not happy anymore" for me it is more like every other day he says that!

problem for me now, is will *I* ever be happy? I dont know! I dont like my H anymore! I can never trust him...

I havne't followed your H sitch...The OW in our lives just gave birth a few weeks ago! So I have been a bit preoccupied...in mind anyway!

I wish you the best of luck and hope you stick around...this is agreat place and you will meet wonderful people! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Welcome, Mrs. Lost! This is my first post but I have read some stuff thanks to Flukeboy.

What a guy, huh? Look at all the people he gets on this board!

Mrs. Lost,

Welcome.

I am so sorry you are going thru this. I looked at your time line and this is all so fresh for you.
Recovery takes a long time. I think the avarage is about 2 yrs. Each situation is different.

You will experience so many different emotions.
The one that shocked me the most was when I felt RAGE. I am not a violent person. But boy there sure was a few times I thought I was going to be.

It has been almost 3 yrs since I found out about my H's affair. His A was for 11 yrs. my stepson (OC) will be 10 next month.
When I first found out about the Affair, I think I stayed out of fear. IF I had been 10 yrs younger I would have divorced his buut in a New York minute. I also stayed for financial reasons. We still have 4 kids at home. I didnt think i could support myself and 4 kids. I also have some health problems.
The first 2 yrs were HELL. It does get easier, less painfull with time.
I have come to love my H once again, but it will never be like it was. I am one of those that will NEVER say that my marraige is better because of my H's affair.
I do not trust him 100%. Dont know if I ever will.
I also have faith in God. I just take one day at a time and live the way I believe God wants me to.

Lori

HI Mrs not so lost

I wont bore you with my long story but I have dealt with many betrayals from my husband over our 18year marriage and all different reasons at the various times as to why I did not leave or let him return home.

The basic thing is I cannot imagine, picture, or even contemplate my life without my husband. I have tried hard. I know he will always be in it. Mostly because of the children we have 3.

I have hated him at times throughout my life. I have dealt with physical abuse but none since his anger management. Some things actually do work when the person has a deep desire to change, he did and has changed.

I feel he is my soulmate. I know thats hard to believe if you dont have yours in your life but I can never picture him not in my life in some aspect. I cannot imagine going days without hearing his voice.
I married for life when I did marry and he knew it. I knew it and so did the world. I am one of the most loyal women in the world.

I got tired of the multiple betrayals. I unfortunately found out about them mostly at once. I was too trusting, and made it easy his words. He was living his childhood/young adulthood/freedom he missed out on when we married at 18. WE had a full recognciliation in 1997 it was great and lasted for a few years and 2 of the years were pure heaven. Then the boom fell and he didnt want the responsibility of fatherhood and adulthood again. FULL Circle. I was crushed. It came out of left field I had the rug pulled out from under me and i fell hard. I went to pieces and was destroyed. I have just started to recover and look out for me, no more mrs pushover and family first.

Now to prove my point, I made arrangements to get a legal seperation and have done so legally to make it easy for him to go away if he wanted to or for myself if i wanted to.

I seperated from him for a few months and am furious with the situation we are in now, but he is putting up and showing me everything I wanted him to do in the past. He wants me to believe he can be true. I am guarded of course. Its a long and complicated story but I am not convinced yet. I am not sure I ever will be, I prob wont be till its prob been years. I have seen progress because he WANTED to change. I saw the desire I heard him proclaim it but till he SHOWED me I didnt believe it.
I am still not sure he has many things to overcome alchohol abuse is one of them which he still wont admit to. He is a binge drinker it only happens every few months so its hard to convince him he has a problem.

So I am here in limbo with full recovery.
I have tried to seperate from him completely and life keeps throwing us back together.

I hope I helped some.

Hello NotTooLost. I have no advice for you but I wanted to say welcome to the board. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

welcome Mrs.Lost!
cc

Mrs. Lost, welcome. I hope that you can somehow find some peace in your life.

There is absolutely no reason to rush a thing right now. Legally, you can get separated and get child support lined up for your children, et spousal support set up, etc. Then slow down and take your time.

It sounds like Mr. Lost has alot of issues, could be they are coming to a head, and he is now finally going to deal with the destructive side of his personality. Would it be possible for you two to speak with the Harleys? This is afterall, a marriage building site, not just a oc site.

I believe that you have put up with and worked though alot of issues. I also believe it is now on his shoulders to walk the walk. If he is a coward, and just allows his destructive behavior to continue to control him, then you have your answer as to what your future will entail. If he gets into a real program, and works to deal with his issues, he may be worth a shot.

I guess I just want to send you a hug and let you know that people here will truly care about both of you! That whatever decisions you chose, you will be supported and encouraged.

Thanks for posting, Kim. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just wanted to briefly note one connection I see between Lynn's response to your concerns. In answer to the question of why I think the changes would be different and lasting this time, as opposed to the others, Lynn noted the importance of getting into a real program. That's what I think MB offers that we've never had before. Last fall, we had such a wonderful honeymoon period... but no real plan. We counted on love and God to do it all. I think if last fall (1) I'd been brave enough to go NC and quit that job immediately, (2) I'd had regular, rigorous MC, and (3) I'd made a commitment to the MB process (see (1)), we'd have stood a significantly better chance of success.

Between my intensive IC working on codependency (I've got a great book on it which you can borrow when I'm finished) and the structure of the MB approach, I think I am investing in real programs that would bring a different person to the table. I know only time will show the truth of it, but I've seen some really major changes in myself in the last few weeks, working on these emotional skills. And in the meantime, whatever you/we decide about our future, I'm already committed to this healing process for myself. With or without you, I will be this person. For the sake of our vows and our family, I would prefer it to be with you again, someday.

(By the way, NotTooLost said it's okay with her if I post, at least for now.)

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what I think MB offers that we've never had before. Last fall, we had such a wonderful honeymoon period... but no real plan. We counted on love and God to do it all. I think if last fall (1) I'd been brave enough to go NC and quit that job immediately, (2) I'd had regular, rigorous MC, and (3) I'd made a commitment to the MB process (see (1)), we'd have stood a significantly better chance of success.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy isnt that the truth... My H and I also had a false recovery which included a loving and passionate honeymoon phase.. and we also thought we'd just LOVE LOVE LOVE and it'd all go away.

Well, as Mr. & Mrs. Lost found out--- we also found out the hard way that there IS a mandatory phase that INCLUDES real tools like MB, counseling, etc. You can't just "kiss and make up" your way out of it. The love-broom that makes you sweep sweep it under the carpet ---- can also creep out of the closet a few months or even years down the line and smack you right in the face !!

My H also wound up having some sex with some more girls because our recovery went RIGHT back to the same issues as pre-A--- my issues and his both. We did the "get out" or "I'm leaving" and we'd split for the night/weekend and Lord knows I was no angel either in this phase.

Okay.. back to the meat of it LOL....

I didn't stay for H... I didnt even really stay for the kids... I didn't stay for financial reasons because I am financially secure myself.

I stay because I think it is an addiction, much like drugs, alcohol, etc. I am just not ready to throw in the towel yet. The kids are happy w/us together of COURSE, but as we all know we can't JUST stay for them. For me, we are only married for 5 years and I know that things CAN get better. I have felt that these will be the WORST years, the ones we look back at and say WHAT THE HECK were we doing. We were both NOT ready for marriage and we are young (32 and 28)..

We love each other so much but we just didn't have the prior experience w/true love or with this thing I call M.

Another HUGE reason is that this is working for ME right now. I will leave if and when I need- but now, I like my home, family, H and the love I feel MOST days inside my home.

If H did not cheat, I think i would have anyway, if I had met someone i liked enough (women are MUCH more selective <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). We both needed a new start.

I answered nothing, and I talked too much as usual. LOL...

Mrs. Lost--- I would not rush into anything-- you need lots of time to even consider this. Mr. Lost is talking a good game and all- But i swear, if I had found this place WAY long ago, my M would have had a much better chance. I think you and Mr. found this place for a reason???

it slowly and surely creeps in and helps you- and you say HUH??? I am making major life decisions due to an INTERNET SUPPORT BOARD??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: giovanna123 ]</small>

NTL, if my H had "relapsed" I do not know if we would have made it.

But we did get counseling, he did make changes, we did use recovery books, he did NOT contact xow without me, and we did recover!!

One reason I stayed was I knew we had "issues", that divorce would not change who we WERE as people, that if either of us remarried, we would carry the same problems with us into another relationship; so why not at least TRY to fix the one I had with the father of my children? If it didn't work, at least I could tell them I TRIED my best. (The kids were another big reason I stayed, as I have seen many kids damaged by divorce.)

Gotta go for now. I hope you get the support you're looking for.
J
DDAY 6 and half years ago and I'm glad I stayed

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone! I appreciate your input & responses.
It looks like everyone agrees that TIME is the big determiner here... if I have learned anything, hopefully it is to not make decisions when you feel differently about something every day (or every hour). Hope, no hope, hope, no hope, hope, no hope... and so it goes.

I appreciate the input on why you all stayed also. Just so curious about that, and I realize it doesn't have to be ONE thing, and often isn't.

OW should have received her NC letter from Lost71 today, and I'm alittle concerned that I've heard NOTHING other than his post here... concerned whether there has been C over the letter, and also concerned whether he has a place to go for support where he can be honest now that he knows I'm reading here. Certainly he's smart enough to realize that the MB website isn't a good place for me to see that NC needs to start all over again due to some crazy situation caused by OW... just a gut feeling that she won't take that NC letter lying down.

Does it happen often that BOTH the BS and WS are posting on the same boards at a time like this? I'm pretty sure my presence here will hinder Lost71 from posting or being honest here with struggles like withdrawal and NC failures and the like... which is one reason I was afraid to post here. We'll see, that's up to Lost I guess. He wanted me here...


Again, I really appreciate everyone's support & input. One day at a time. One day at a time. One more day at a time........

Hi NTL,

I'm happy to see you posting too. We have had quite a few couples posting on MB. Not necessarily on the P/C forum but there have been a few here too.

Does it restrict what you or he might want to post? I would think it might in the beginning but after a while here you realize the importance of complete honesty. And sometimes it's easier to write out your thoughts rather than blurting them out in a spontaneous conversation. We also have the Private P/C forum if one of you feels uncomfortable and might want to try that.

The NC letter. Yes, OW might try to contact him and may succeed in getting through somehow. Hopefully he realizes the importance of the honesty aspect of MB program and will volunteer that information without having to be asked. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (**hint, hint** Lost71!!!**)

Nerly, thanks!
Looks like my 5 year old napped this afternoon and is up now 12:45am... gonna sleep with me - good night.

One of the liberating things about our current condition is that I have nothing to hide anymore. I am more than willing to talk at length openly and with radical honesty about everything that's going on. The problem at the moment is that I feel like NTL and I are in limbo. How do you have significant, rigid boundaries (with a restraining order looming, no less) and yet at the same time engage in any kind of MB? I only want to respect her space right now, RO or not, and the times I've "tested the waters" it feels like pressure to her, which I definitely don't want to create. She's told me phone calls and discussions are not possible right now. It's a very difficult environment in which to know the right thing to do.

Case in point, the NC letter. Everything surrounding OW and NC is so painful to NTL, I didn't know how or if I should bring it up today. Based on some of her comments, I can't really tell how bought in to the whole NC concept NTL is or if she even believes me at all. Let's just say she is less than impressed about nine (now ten) days of NC. At the moment, we just aren't doing NC -- or anything else -- as a team. I was going to send an NC letter on my own, but I asked my W to mail it so she would know for the record that NC was real and permanent. At NTL's request (and thanks to OW's instability) there's nothing in the letter about my W, or us being a unified front, or contact regarding the child later only with my W's presence and participation -- all necessary factors, of course, if we start rebuilding our marriage. Like I explained above, I honestly don't know where and how to bring up NC or anything else. I've just tried to make it clear I'm available and willing to discuss things, and left the impetus on NTL to initiate discussion.

As for me feeling free to post here, I still do. I need this place for me to keep my head on straight and frankly to keep up hope, not just about our marriage but about my own growth. The concepts around NC and withdrawal have helped me tremendously; I'd have never sent a letter without the encouragement and testimonies of people here, and I'm very glad I did. I've learned as much in here as I have with any therapist, and just like in therapy, it's a total waste of my time if I'm not perfectly honest. And in RL I have great support right now... I can't begin to say enough about Flukeboy and Flukette. Let's just say it's been a rough 48 hours, and he's been there for me with comfort in one hand and the belt in the other. Mostly comfort, though. Believe it or not, I tend to belt myself pretty well these days.

So, finally... the NC letter. I know it was delivered today because my work cell phone started ringing off the hook around the time OW must have gotten home from work. Didn't answer, of course, and I didn't listen to her messages. (But Flukette did, and she seemed amused before she deleted them.) I finally turned that phone off for a while, turned it back on just to see, and there were more messages -- the only one I heard was from my attorney (whose name and number I'd included in the NC letter for future contact regarding OC) telling me that OW had called her and left some hysterical message.

My attorney is transcribing her messages from OW and instructed me not to delete any more -- I don't have to listen, but just save them for her to transcribe in the event a restraining order is needed. So hopefully Flukette remembers the main points of the messages and can jot them down for my attorney. I know I was called a coward for "breaking up" with her by mail... talk about living in the fog, her ability to hear what she wants is astonishing. (Then again, maybe somehow I still hadn't been as direct as I needed to be because I was still keeping my toe on the fence.) In either case, it's why a blunt letter was so important -- and even that didn't deter her from calling. And there was something in her message about waiving all rights to the OC, but I don't know exactly and I don't care. She's used pregnancy and babies against me so flagrantly for so long, I'm numb to it now.

So the news is that NC is still intact. I don't want to say I'm "past" withdrawal and thus underestimate it -- I've done that before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> -- but my only bright spot in the last two days was the realization that, through all the pain I've been in, I had zero inclination to reach out to OW, as I had just a month or so ago whenever things got rough. It didn't even occur to me to do so -- there was simply nothing to resist. I know, big deal. At this point, I'll take whatever victories I can, and that's a win as far as I'm concerned.

Now I just need to find a "Sleep Builders" forum and get some advice from them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ March 05, 2005, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Lost71 ]</small>

Flukeboy and Flukette here...

Above statements are true and complete.

And how cool is that?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />