OK...I'm usually upbeat here, I can put the bright spin on almost anything in life. I honestly live my life this way...but not tonight.<P>I'm in full recovery. I thought my H had never been happier in our marriage.<BR>No card. No flower. Not even a scibbled message on a flippin' post it note.<P>An ambiguous promise of dinner..sometime. Then how about a pizza and a video after his nap?..haven't seen him since. He does have a sleep disorder.<P>I am treasuring my handmade cards from my three girls. I made them cards with corney individualized poems. We had fun.<P>My oldest 14, kept asking her dad where was Mom's card and gift...she actually thought he was just holding off some grand surprise. I finally asked her to not embarass her dad...although he didn't appear to be embarassed.<P>I couldn't find just the right card at the store, so I handmade his card, too. My message:<P>You know I dislike when anyone uses "always" or "never"....well today I will make an exception. I will ALWAYS love you and I will NEVER take our life, our love or our marriage for granted.<P>OK...one part of me is giving me a talking to, telling me this is a commerical holiday, and these tokens mean nothing. To a clueless guy, this is not a report card on his feelings. I am telling myself not to misinterpret this event. Look on the bright side, last year when he was still in phone contact with OW, he gave me two whole roses, a Walmart candle AND a card ..he must have a lot LESS to feel guilty about this Valentine's Day. I should be happy that he does take our marriage for granted again. After all, that shows how comfortable he feels.<P>The other half of me wonders what a loser wife I must be, not to recieve a card or a gift. Before the affair, I just shrugged it off as H being clueless...now it seems like a slap in the face.<P>I guess I'm throwing a pity party for myself. If anyone wants to join in...welcome!<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I think that the more "comfortable" a spouse becomes with the marriage, the more likely they may be to forget the little things, like valentines cards and stuff. My h bought me gifts galore during the time he said his involvement with another happened. <P>So getting nothing may not be so bad, maybe only to us. They are just "comfortable" and not putting out the effort.

Big sigh......yes, Conner, you are right.<P>But it still sucks...there, I said it.

I rarely get cards, and almost never get gifts, so I've pretty much come to expect that from my H. Although he did get a Valentine's card for me this year, he did manage to have quite a few beers before coming home tonight. I loved the card he got, it was very touching. Brought tears to my eyes when I read it. <P>In the last month we've had our anniversary (no card, no gift, no dinner except what I cooked for him), my birthday (inappropriate card - I was grateful though it's the thought that counts right, no gift, etc.), now V-day. He can well afford to buy gifts, he just doesn't do it. Never has, and probably never will. Christmas, Mother's Day, Easter, you name the holiday, he always forgets them (or just says he did) or just plain doesn't acknowledge them at all. Over the years I guess the one that hurt the most was last year's Mother's Day. He did nothing, except yell at me, saying what a b**** I am, how he couldn't stand me, etc. (this was during his affair), but was able to spend $5,000 the day before on a 4-wheeler for my son. I was brokenhearted. It still hurts. There have been many, many Christmases when we've gotten up to open gifts, and my husband has given me (or the kids) nothing. One year recently the only one who did give me a Christmas gift was my lovely, wonderful daughter. She tries so hard to make up for all the times my H does nothing for me. I've always tried to hard to pick out gifts for him and his family that are meaningful. I just don't understand the lack of compassion.

I agree, FHL, sucks it does.<P>Our H's love us, but they are cavemen from Mars. That's the problem.<P>*tossing around confetti*

This is the first year EVER not to get anything from my W for Valentines Day. I know it was intentional because my W doesn't forget ANYTHING! I'm one of those "caveman from Mars" who has been guilty of "postponing" a card & gift or two. Now that I'm on the receiving end of this rude behavior I see how much it hurts. I've seen a lot of things from my W's perspective lately. I feel so bad for having neglected her feelings these many years. I hope I get the opportunity to make it up to her. I hope your H's get a clue and learn from there mistakes. I am certainly trying to. Hope it makes you feel better that there is at least one caveman out there who is trying to stand erect

OK, this is what happened to me on V-Day... My h actually left me and moved in with the ow. Man, talk about devastation! He had been living with his brother in another state. But, last night, he packed up everything he could that he had there and left. When his brother asked him where he was going he said he didn't know. Well, that was last night and he never showed up here. So, I know where he is. The idea behind him living with his brother was to get him away from the ow. He was supposed to go to his first counseling session on Wednesday and he couldn't face it. So, he ran. He knew he didn't want to come to me because I would make him face his problems. He knows if he goes to the ow, she won't make him deal with any of his problems. So, I am the bad guy. Oh well. I am completely heartbroken. I guess you could definitely say this was my all-time worse V-Day. Thanks honey! I love you too!<P>~Woozy

My H is another who isn't big on gift giving and then he gets frustrated when I get him gifts. I told him I get him gifts because I love him and it makes me feel good to get him things. So this year I got nothing material. But he was home and that was the best gift ever.<P>------------------<BR>Jaded Heart<BR>____________<P> <A HREF="http://journeys.webprovider.com" TARGET=_blank>http://reflect.to/journeys</A> <P> <P>

My Valentines Day started off wonderfully, but quickly turned to disaster. <P>I phoned my wife at work when I got home from work, and for the first time in about 8 months, she told me she loved me without me saying it first. I really thought that she was turning a corner, but I was not prepared for the corner she turned.<P>As it turns out, the gift I gave her (One of those heart shaped candy boxes, with all the candy removed and filled with small Yankee candles - this because she loves candles and told me not to get her any candy this year as it makes her sick) reminded her of the OM because he used to get them for her.<P>From the point of our gift exchange on through the evening, she got more and more depressed. I asked her what was wrong and she told me how the candles reminded her of the OM. I thanked her for being open and honest with me and told her how sorry I was for her pain.<P>She told me that she did not believe that I was sorry for her pain and that she thought that I was happy for it. After a lengthy discussion where she just got more mad and my explanations of not wanting her to hurt fell on deaf ears, I went to bed.<P>This morning, she told me that she did not want any displays of affection between us to be seen by anyone (This includes showing off our gifts from each other, and open displays of affection - hugging, kissing, etc.)<P>She then wrote me a letter asking me if I was just pretending to love her and stated that she did not want to be cared for by anyone anymore. She then stated at the end of the letter that maybe if we started acting as if each other were special to each other, something might happen.<P>I KNOW that she is confused and in MAJOR withdrawal, but do not really know what to do. She asked me specifically not to give her a book to read (Any of the Harley stuff that I own), so I really don't know how to even broach the subject of emotional needs with her. I just keep on showing her that I love her and guessing what her needs are. <P>I sincerely hope that someone out there had a GREAT Valentines Day.

Oh, I had a perfectly fine Valentine's weekend -- until Sunday night.<P>H took me to dinner Saturday, then we watched SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE. This after he went supposedly to work and then reset the mileage counter on the car, but that's another story.<P>Sunday, peach roses were delivered and I got him a watch, the concert tix I'd wanted to get him being prohibitively expensive.<P>Then Sunday night, we were watching THE SIMPSONS, in which Maude Flanders died, and I said, "I'd miss you if you weren't here." His reply: "Yeah, I'd miss me too if I wasn't here."<P>Argh.<P>No success story yet for me, I'm afraid.

Dazed and Confused,<P>I am sorry about your V-Day fiasco! Your husband's comment about missing himself if he weren't here... That sounds just like something my husband would say right now. He has been so heartless with me. As you see by my above post, he left me anyway on V-Day. So, that pretty much tears it right there. I feel sick to my stomach!<P>Sorry that you have to go through this!<P>~Woozy

FHL, Remember my INFP friend? His girlfriend left him a few weeks ago. She kept telling him that she had certain emotional needs, but he just wouldn't move outside of his circle to meet her emotional needs. So, after she left, he got this video tape from some kind of self help relationship place.<P>It was on emotional needs. No, it wasn't from MB, but it had some of the same type of concepts.<P>He came over Sunday night - and my husband, I and the INFP friend got into this long conversation about emotional needs. My husband took notes. ha ha (hen I look back it looks so funny.....sorry)<P>anyhow.... Mr. clueless was listening. So, he finally understood that I had an emotional need of affection. I explained that affection doesn't always mean a hug, it can mean an email. It can mean a card. It can mean a call in the middle of the day for no reason.<P>So, my husband decided to buy me flowers for valentines day. I was so surprised. <P>This is the second time he has ever bought me flowers. He never thinks of holidays. I am used to not expecting anything for any holiday. I am talking my birthday, Christmas, etc. <P>On Christmas Eve this year, we stopped at Wal-mart to exchange something. It was 1/2 hour before the store was going to close. After we got back in the car, ready to leave, I said to him, "Did you get me anything for Christmas?" (geez.... what an idiot.) "No, I don't know what to get."<P>"Well, I want you to go back in the store and get me something. I want something that says you find me physically desirable and sexy, I want something romantic, I want to know that you care about me by what you buy me." Mr. Clueless walked right back in the store and came right back out in about 10 minutes. I had to TELL him to do this, because he just didn't get it.<P>He was very proud of what he bought me, and I made sure that I made him feel wonderful for making me happy with his gifts. I guess I am thinking of this as "Mr. Clueless in Training"......<P>I remember when my kids were at home, that I would take them to the store and they would have money, maybe $20 each. And I would sit out in the car while they did their shopping for Christmas. I gave them a list of who to shop for. I wanted them to learn that every year you make a plan to try and remember your loved ones. Now they are big and gone, and both my sons and my daughter are very good about finding a way to remember their spouse.<P>FHL, you've got to train your husband. If you wait for him to get it without any help, he's never going to get it.<P>Maybe you can tell him that on this coming Saturday night, that you and him are going to celebrate Valentines Day. And tell him that he has a limit of a certain dollar amount that he should spend for a gift. If he doesn't get it then, then he has a cyber fryin' pan coming his way.<P>TNT

I think the spouse's comfort level might have quite a bit to do with it. Last year, I did get roses, but we fought all V-Day.<P>This year, well, now you know Guard, and we just started "no contact"...a dozen red gilt-tipped roses, a delicate heart necklace with crushed diamonds, chocolate truffles, 3 hours at a day spa for a facial, massage, manicure. It was sooo sweet. And he bought both daughters a red rose with a Valentine Teddy bear. Where has this guy been? <P>Just in case you think I didn't do anything...I got him (big ST. Louis Rams fan) a Kurt Warner NFL MVP numbered placque & a superbowl champs cap. The male version of a dozen roses and chocolate.

My Vday consisted of posting messages and getting no replies, my H instant messaging me which went ok, he asked about family and said happy valentines day.<P>He called later to talk to the kids and accidentally said i love you on the voice mail and once to me on the phone. He then said he didn't mean it. THanks . He clarified, he meant it but didn't mean to say it. OK even better. <P>This morning he asked why I sounded down and how come I had a rough night. <P>I guess I should be glad that he notices I am still human and in pain. I guess it could have been worse. I did send him an ecard that hasn't been read still. Oh well. I guess we are all miserable over VDAY.

The Good News: H got me a card , a nice hydrangia plant and took me out to dinner. The card said how glad he was to have found me and how wonderful I was. Maybe it was the only card left in the store? I als think he did not go see OW when I was at work.<P> The bad news: When I came home from work he didn't acknowlege me until I walked over to him. He fell asleep watching TV minutes later and I had to wake him to take me to dinner. When we got into bed I tried to cuddle and he gave me the usual cold shoulder and I said I love you and got no response.<P>Do actions speak louder than cards? I am dieing for a little affection here. I am getting so tired, I think he is backing off of his relationship, but I don't see him turning to me.

I got to say that while I was blubbering here at the computer last night, my H wandered down the hall and asked what was wrong.<P>He didn't say much, but that he was sorry and held me for a long time.<P>He said he didn't get candy because I don't eat it. True enough. He thought about flowers, but didn't stop. He did think about taking me to dinner sometime. He really meant to get up, order my favorite pizza and watch a video...but he got up from his nap at 2AM. In other words he had OK intentions, but acted on nothing and didn't go the extra inch, much less the extra mile.<P>No ill intent, just clueless insensitivity. I'm not angry, but I just feel drained....and puffy. Sometimes I feel if I lower my expectations any more, I'll have to dig a trench for them.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I hear ya, sistah. I truly do. I hate Valentine's Day. It brings out the worst in people.<P>Let's abolish all holidays. Anyone else vote Yea? Let's just have days off work with no expectations.

FHL,<BR>My trench is big enough for a swimming pool - hey, maybe some good could come out of this whole "lowering expectations" after all.<P>Some guys just don't get it. Without any LB-ing and the like, I explained that V-day, like ALL OTHER DAYS, I feel good when someone treats me with respect. On the gift issue, this means giving thoughtful little "somethings" that are for ME - and ME only. I have also explained that for the "us" stuff, I would like to discuss (read POJA) so that neither of us is disappointed or resentful for decisions made. <P>What did I get for V-day? Hockey tickets and a promise to go out after to the sports bar. .......HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - just last week when we were talking about EN's and the like, I expressed that I would like to meet his desire to take in some games together - FOR HIM and that while I am not a huge fan, it would be for the purpose of meeting one of his EN's in the recreational companion end. Key on this is HIS emotional need. <P>Ugggggggggggh. Would have rather received nothing but a rented movie and micro popcorn with room service than something that makes me feel not only like he just doesn't "get it" but that he chooses to get it as long as it benefits him and him alone.<P>Anyone interested in seeing the Senators play the Rangers on Saturday the 26th? I just might know where you could get some tickets really cheap <P>Cheers,<BR>Lisa

Hi, all,<P>...Gee, some sad stories here about V-Day. FHL, I sure hate to see you so bummed-out & "deflated" (despite being *puffy*! Been puffy myself a few times!). I did have to chuckle about you digging a trench tho... you have a clever way with words even in puffy-mode. <P>Anyway, all - here's fervent wishes that your guys recover their senses and get a clue or two - and that future V-Days (Christmases, b'days etc) are far, far better. You all deserve the very best. Hang in there, & remember it's not about any deficiencies in *you* - it's about deficiencies in *them* (& now, I'm gonna get crackin' on training my 2 boys how not to be clueless turds! )

OK...all those in favor of abolishing V-day (at least making it illegal for H & W's to celebrate)...raise your hand....or use your smilies legend and pop your eyes <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13