I feel so sad. The counselor was good TOO good, I was crying within 30 minutes! Basically, H says that he is not IN love with me but loves me and wants our marriage (I'm sure that you all know that I felt as if my heart had been ripped out). H feels that he is wasting his time because I will never trust him. And when she asked me if I was in love with him, I couldn't answer her, when she asked me if I wanted this marriage I couldn't answer her. We both have A LOT of anger. I feel like WHY SHOULD I TRY! I know that is not good, but I don't want to trust him again. I think of it as SELF PRESERVATION. So the counselor said that I really have to search and figure out if I want this and why I am married to him if I don't trust him, if I don't know if I am in love with. I don't know what my problem is, I am having the same feelings as him as far as not being in love, but I got so upset when he said it! As if my ego is saying "I CAN FEEL THAT WAY, BUT HE CAN'T". It's as if I want him to be so madly in love with me and me being over him! I guess that's the revengefulness want. I am sad because I think I am at the end of the road here and have to FINALLY face the fact that maybe the only reason we keep coming back is because of the kids and history together. But now it is not enough to sustain this marriage. It hurts so much, so so much. But I can't go on faking this anymore and thinking that we will make it without TRUST, because I CAN'T BEND and FAKE TRUST. I just can't set myself up for that again, not 1 more time. Sorry so long, I keep having to run to the bathroom since I'm at work and can't stop crying.

T24G: I know how you feel. That is what our counselor told me at the very beginning, that we could not have a marriage without trust. All I could do at that point was trust him enough to allow him to be in the same house with me. Now one year later thing are great! For about 10 months I would get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach thinking that I needed to trust him again, and think I was having an anxiety attack. What eventually helped me was an antidepressant, and about a month of that I could open myself up to him. I feel as though I have been to hell and back again. <P>Hang in there. This is the hardest time for you and eventually it does get better, and it is worth it. Your family and your history do matter. <P>You and your husband are together and that is a good place to be even though it is painful, and it probably seems it would be easier if he were gone. Keep talking to each other and it is okay to tell him you are scared and having a hard time. <P>My husband has said to me several times in the past month, he is more in love with me now than he has ever been, and in December I was getting sick thinking about being able to trust him. <BR>

T24G,<P>I believe what you are feeling is normal...<BR>If you both agree to work on your marriage you <B>CAN</B> get those feelings back..<P>Do three things<BR>1. eliminate all <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A><P>2. Enact the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A><P>3. Use the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A><P>These three things are Dr. H's basis for recovery.<P>If you are both willing to go to counceling, try Steve Harley. He has the expertice to show you how you can reclaim that romantic love you so desperatly need to have a successful marrige.<P>My prayers are with you,<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Are talking specifically about trusting him to be faithful?<P>It has been over 2 years for us and I still suspect him constantly. He carries a phone and calls me regularly and says he doesn't erase the phone calls he receives. I do get a printout of the phone bill. The thing is, with a cell phone, he could be calling from anywhere and say he is anywhere. His affair took place at work. Even the sex, so it is no consolation when I know he is at work. She is gone, but there are a lot of women around.<P>I don't trust him with my heart either. Even if I could see into the future and know for sure if he is going to be faithful, I still don't know if he is lying to me about his feelings especially when his actions say otherwise. <P>I have chosen to accept my lack of trust, but I have not chosen to trust again.<P>He says that eveytime I question him or suspect him and he can prove he was honest, then that is still a small victory, but what about that one time I don't ask.<P>

Trying, first of all, take a deep breath, put on some sunglasses and a smile to hide those crying eyes.<P>Counselors have a way of getting paid to make us see the things we already know. You know the issues facing you and your H, but dealing with them alone or w/ a spouse is so very hard. Having a third party help you categorize them and help you face those issues is a a tremendous burden off of you.<P>Don't be dismayed because you couldn't answer your counselors questions about love or wanting the marriage. My counselor asked me if I was willing to fight for my marriage and I said literally, "Ummm, maybe? I guess that's what I'm here to find out."<P>If you want to "ease" your H's fear that you'll never trust him again, tell him he is partially right. You will never blindly trust him again, like so many of us have until we were betrayed, but there could be an earned trust again and that may take some time.<P>We know it hurts, we're all here to share your pain. Your counselor is right, you have to search yourself for the answers, no one can tell us what we can or can't deal with. It all has to come from within, but be assured there are people out there who care about you and are willing to help.<P>Do you have your smile on yet? <BR><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

Butterfly,<P>Hang in there I know this is hard but it does sound like you have a good councelor. She (or he) made you both go to the heart of the matter very quickly. You both need to think. Be greatful that she is asking you to explore these things. It is what you and he need to do to move on or end it.<P>I do believe feelings can come back. Yours and I suspect mine our barried behind that wall we built to protect us from our husbands. Don't give up yet. give it a little more time. I was so glad to here that you did go to the session after all.<P>Acacia

Oops. I meant to type T24G. I was just reading Butterfly's post and pur in her name instead.<P>Acacai

We go through so many emotions in a single day that it is hard to say how we feel. I Started reading After the Affair today and the first page kicked me in the butt. It said "when I was 15, I was raped. That was nothing compared to your affair. The rapist wa a stranger; you, I thought, were my best friend." I have thought many times, if I can forgive (and finally learn to trust) the person who has violated me, why can't I do this with my H? We are allowed to have these emotions. Our world crashes with all sense of security and love in it. What I remembered was it did take me a long time in that circumstance so it will probably take longer with the one I've decided to share my life with. I think you DO love him or you wouldn't be going to counceling. If you didn't care, it wouldn't hurt to hear him say these things to you. Trust, is another thing. People have to earn it. THAT TAKES TIME when it's taken away. Of course we want them to fall all over us and we feel we should be able to hate them at the same time. The hard part is working through all these emotions and even making a daily commitment to do so. Please continue counceling, it helped us a lot. Listen to him without creating LB or he won't be able to talk it out with you. You've been through the hardest part so you are stronger than you give yourself credit for. Best wishes for both of you in your marriage.

THANK YOU ALL! Yes Sparky, I am smiling now! It is going to feel wierd sleeping next to him tonight, knowing what I now know (or always knew)about his feelings for me, maybe he will feel weird too, i don't know. I am not going to LB though, that is the thing that he was afraid of, that we would go home and continue arguing after the counseling session was over and get nowhere. I just know that I am not going to be comfortable or talkative around him now. I just feel so sad, but I know that is normal. Change is a VERY scary thing and I know that things must change either together or apart. Thanks for listening or should I say reading. =

Let me preface this with I have never been to a counselor.<P>However, I question some of what transpired. First of all, it seems almost silly and a little cruel to quiz partners that are obviously having problems whether or not they are "in love" with each other or in cases of affairs, whether of not they trust each other. Duh...if couples were wildly in love they would most likely not be sitting with a counselor. And asking someone new to the trauma of an affair if they trust...then baasically implying if they don't trust, and/or are "in love" then they should question the marriage, is almost dooming a marriage.<P>I mean aren't you in counseling to sort things out? Aren't you there because you are confused? Aren't you there to learn how to make things work? Isn't the counselor's role to facilitate communication and help you find the answers? <P>I think it may have been more positive to get your fear out in the open about not feeling "in love" at times like these and how not being able to trust is normal, but eventually most can trust again. Etc...<P>Feelings are fluid and especially sensitive right now. Just because you feel a certain way today, doesn't mean you will ALWAYS feel that way. You can work towards feeling differently. You can also make a choice which feelings you will act on, and which you will act to change.<P>And what is wrong with being motivated to stay because of history and the kids? That should be respected rather than knocked. Isn't that part of for better, for worse? Isn't that another way of saying...my commitment to our marriage is so strong I will stay and I will work on things....EVEN when my temporary feelings make this difficult? I will honor my vows through the tough times and work on making things even better than before? Wouldn't you rather have that kind of spouse than one who says "I need to follow my feelings. I know I made a promise, but now I FEEL differently, so I must end the marriage." News bullet...that attitude will have you leaving relationships your whole life. If you believe you have to act on every feeling you have, why bother committing to anything in life. Really, think about it.<P>Finally, a more upbeat, different way of thinking about all of this would be to consider all five types of love in marriage. The physical and romantic (Eros)type are closely related, so we'll count them together right now. That leaves Phileo which is a cherishing friendship kind of love, Storge which is a loyal, almost a comfortable "old shoe" type of love (shared history) and Agape...which is a love of choice...an unconditional love we have for one another as humans. <P>Sounds like Trying2 4Give has three out of four of those loves. Hey, that percentage is pretty good. Do you think that resting on that love and using for a foundation to rebuild the physical/romantic love may be a good idea? <P>Many affairs burn brightly and die, because their relationship does not have the full spectrum of love, just the physical and the romantic...which one can argue is fantasy and not real love anyway.<P>Real love can dig in, slog through the mud and come out the other side even stronger than before.<P>Anyway...that's the things I would wish a counselor would say.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13<p>[This message has been edited by Faith Hope Love (edited February 18, 2000).]

T24G:<P>I'd reiterate what FHL says. Your counselor is pretty full of crap. You don't have to "love" your spouse right now. You don't have to trust him. He doesn't need to love you.<P>What you do need to do is to commit to learning the behaviors for each other that will build that "love" (romantic) and trust that you both want. The past history is very important, as is the "family". And although FHL hasn't been to a counselor, she'd feel very comfortable with Steve Harley, who would basically say the same things that she has.<P>I'd suggest a new marriage counselor. It's ridiculous to waste your time on one who starts you out in this manner.

FHL you are very wise!!! I think I may have misrepresented my counselor. She was very aware of the fact that right now we are TOO ANGRY and hurt to answer or make any drastic moves as of yet. That is why she asked to see ME ALONE on Tuesday. And then my H ALONE the week after. She reiterated that she doesn't think we are hopeless or impossible, but we have some deep rooted resentment that goes a LONG WAY BACK. But I knew I had to decide whether I want to TRY and that was what upset my, because after 2 years I can't answer that I DO WANT TO TRY. We seem to have outgrown each other, and I don't want to feel forced to feel/do romantic things anymore. But i do feel comfortable with the counselor but will see what happens on Tuesday. I do welcome any insight.