I want to give an update for those old timers that have followed my story, and offer some hope to everyone here. I have been through the whole process.. It was Thanksgiving of 1999 that my husbands affair started. I have been in plan A, plan B, have seen withdrawal of my h's at its worst, seen my h move in with ow and sign a lease to an appt.. We also discussed divorce a money settlement and who gets what furniture.... I am here to say that there is hope for everyone... Because we are making it, and I honestly never believed it could happen...<BR>In short for those who do not know my story. My h had the worse kind of affair,, the romantic one,, yes, in love with ow etc, said he loved me but wasnt in love etc. My h's affair started 11/98. I discovered it 3/99 (pre harley) 3 weeks after discovery I kicked him out because I found out he was with ow again. I planned to divorce him. He moved in with and signed a lease on apt with ow (I didnt know it but found out later). About a week or 2 after he was out of the house, he began calling me on my pager and he would cry and say he knew he screwed up.. He would leave me notes at the house when he came to pick up bills and tell me he still loved me.. I really didnt respond much to him.. I was confused.... <BR>THEN, I did the best thing I could have ever done... I picked up a copy of Surviving an Affair, and found this website... For the first time, I actually understood some things, and had hope.... Since it was very difficult for me to see or talk with my h because he was living with ow (it hurt too much),, I wrote him a plan B letter.. I also changed my pager number so he couldnt leave me messages crying (those killed me). After 2 months of him being out of the house and me really not contacting him (unknowingly plan B), and 3 weeks in a strict plan B.. My H wrote me a letter and told me he wanted me back and he was serious... I still was gun shy at taking him back and didnt respond to his note.. That really freaked him out and he wrote me another...<BR>I paged h and told him to call me if and only if he was serious about cutting off his contact with ow and working hard on our marriage.<BR>I got the phone call I was hoping for. We met that night and my H was telling me all sorts of stuff.. He wanted to go to a church retreat, he would go to counseling, he owed me his life, he will always remember that I had stuck by my side.....I thought to myself,, Oh my God,,, its a miracle ... hes cured, he is over her,, he knew he screwed up and life is good... He told me he would break the lease with ow, and on our wedding anniversary, (June 8th), he moved home while I was in Chicago on business..<P>I was so happy! I posted here and said,,Its a miracle he is home... And I thought all would be good. Well,,,,,I found out,, it takes time,,, and these types of affairs take time to end and they need to run their course. Easy for me to type here and tell you...Difficult to live.. I mean DIFFICULT... <BR>I posted here quite often back then trying to help others, when my situation unknowingly wasnt over with. Everything was going good, and then in August I found evidence he had seen he again.. DEVISTATION, pain and everything all over again. I thought we were making progress, I had so much hope... I would give my h reading material, he posted here once, I tried everything.. My h cried to me and held me and while he was crying he said he needed someone to help him,, he was desperate. He didnt want to live the life he was living, but couldnt stop. He did not want to lose his wife, his home, his family, his respect, his friends.....BUT HE COULDNT STOP!!!! And it was the saddest thing to see. I watched the person I loved the most in my life cry and cry and try everything to quit seeing ow, but he couldnt stop,, and there was nothing I could do.. I tried everything...<P>We went on vacation and had a good time. When we got back, I started to see for the first time in a YEAR, small little signs of my old h.. He would call me honey, or give me a hug.. Something that little was progress, as I had got absolutely nothing back from him for 1 year. H even told me that he was finally starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.....and he knew his future was with me!!!! I started to get hopeful again..<BR>THEN......Another bomb......My h came home and told me OW had just bought a house around the corner from us on purpose!! I was sick.. I mean, I almost got physically sick... We decided to try to stay here to see how it would go. (We just built our brand new dream home, and it isnt financially conducive to move right away)..Plus this is the area we always wanted to live in.<P>So we tried.. H went about a good 3 weeks, then Whammo... Evidence he had seen her again.. I was crushed.. I cried... Then he went about another 3 weeks,,,,then whammo.. Again,,, I caught him....... For me,,, this was getting near then end for me.. I was trying plan A approach, and was seriously considering plan B.. But I met Kat1 from this site and began writing her private email.. She helped me with patience, and many of you on here helped me a lot. I do not post a lot, but I read every day..<P>I am now here to say that I think my H is almost through this... We are selling our home now and moving away from ow (1/2 hr.). From what I have heard H and the ow about have finally realized the relationship would never amount to anything. Ow now is dating, and h seems to be the best he has ever been.. <P>He talks to me.. He kisses me, he tells me he loves me,, Our christmas was awesome.. He got me special things like he always used to.. and treated me like a queeen..<P>I think ow true colors started to show also..<BR>It just takes time.. And you will need the patience or it may not work..I can say now that I believe we are finally into recovery, and we will beat this thing.. We are gonna make it.<P>This post is for all of you that never could believe that you spouse could come around.. Mine did,,, full circle,,, and I was just like you... I thought, awe,, that just happens to the lucky ones... Well that isnt so.. That happens to the people that educate themselves on this.... I would never have understood this without reading, and I would never have had the patience without this site, and without people that have never been there.. My h said the same.. H didnt want to talk with a counselor.. H needed to talk to people like freedom and airheart who knows exactly how he feels and have been there.<P>I have some thank yous... First of all, I thank God.. I prayed daily and he has helped guide me through this ordeal no matter how it was going to turn out..<P>My heartfelt thanks to Kat1, Freedom, Airheart!!!!!! You guys will never know the good you have done and the lives you have touched by helping me and my husband... You all took the extra time to help us on the side, and we will never forget it... We still need ya,, but we wanted to thank you!!<P>There are many others on this site that have helped, some oldtimers, some new. Chris,, HG Brawner, Samantha, Bev1234, and many others I am forgetting..<P>You can do it if I did.. The ordeal lasted over a year... Sometimes it will feel as though you have to swallow your pride and it will really bother you,, but it is worth it..<P>Take care to everyone, Good luck and God Bless!!<P><BR>IP: Logged<P><BR>[This message has been edited by mickey65 (edited February 20, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by mickey65 (edited February 20, 2000).]

I copied and pasted this and my Private Lies post from the read only posts for the new comers. The replies are still under the read only posts.<P>I wanted to let everyone know that I still come back here a lot, but I mainly just read and throw out an occasional reply.<P>Lately there has been so many sad posts, I wanted to let everyone know that there is hope even at the worst of circumstances.<P>My H and I are doing really well!! I cant believe how good we are doing and we are both happy! It can happen folks,, it takes time.. <P>We are selling our home this spring and have began looking at new house plans to build a new one, so we dont have to live by the ow..<P>There is hope!! Please believe me,, I never thought we would be where we are at now...<P>

Mickey<BR>I'm so glad you posted this.<BR>It is so wonderful to hear that things are going well. <P>You don't know how bad I needed to read this tonight.<P>You are a rock! May the sun only get brighter for you!<P>The one thing in your post that really hit home for me is that the OW is satrting to show her true colors. If your H can see that then you are really on your way. I pray for the day that my H can see her true colors. I don't know if that day will ever come.<BR>It is a big step. congratulations!!!!!

Thanks, Mickey, for taking the time to share your continuing success with us. I am so happy for you! I think my H is on his way back, too. He is calling me now, nearly every day. The last time he was up (about a week ago), he told me he boxed up all the stuff OW had given him, and gave it all back to her. He said he told her he wanted to distance himself. First, he said he was coming back in April, then he moved it up to March. I don't know where he is at as far as the withdrawal process. Nor, do I know if OW is staying away from him. I pray that I will have the strength to endure any setbacks he has. He is coming up here again on his days off to have some bloodwork done, at my request. I want him to have a male hormonal profile done as I seriously believe he is going through Male Menopause.<P>Again, thank you so much for sharing your story.

Hi mickey, great to hear from you. <P>I'm so glad things keep getting better. And you're right sometimes it seems quite difficult but most times it's worth.<BR>All that you need to remember now,- both of you - is that whatever we're doing now, is for life. Meeting needs, communicate, avoid love busters, none of that is just the fix for an affair, it's something we should keep doing - we should have been doing - troughout the marriage, no matter what outside pressure and stress we're getting.<BR>I know you guys will make it, and I do hope you will keep coming here every once in a while, helping others with your experience.<BR>Big Hug<BR>Kat<BR>P.S. keep in touch. <BR>

Wassi: Thanks for your response.. I dont exactly know what happend with h and ow for him to finally wake up,, it was a gradual process.. When she moved around the corner from us, I do think it was an eye opener, but it still took some time after that,, and once it finally clicked with him, there was no looking back,, Its so strange now.. I mean, my h is even a better husband than he was before this happend, and we have a better marriage.. My h even goes to church with me now and loves it...<P>Sid: Hey there! Glad to see that things are starting to turn around for you.. As Kat1 always told me,,, these things just take time to work themselves out, and you are seeing some positive signs that he wants the marriage,, that is the best step,, then, its a matter of time.. most cant break it off overnight,, its too hard,, the natural death thing is what happend in our circumstance.. As long as you are seeing progress,, thats great... My h also at one point got rid of some of the stuff ow gave him.. its still took some time after that, but it is a good sign.. Hang in there and keep us posted.. I still read a lot here, and like to hear from the ole timers....<P>Kat: I continue to be amazed at the progress we are making.. I wake up everyday and I thank God that things have turned around.. I appreciate my marriage more than I ever have.. I never want to lose sight of it.. You are right,, we need to continue to use the things we learned in this for the rest of our lives, not just to fix this.. Again,, thanks so much for all you did for me......

Here's one success story. I'll look for others.<P>Jo

I just happend to be browsing on this site today and saw this site. It was strange for me to read my thoughts and what I went through. I want to let you know that my h and I are still together and doing very well! We built that new home away from the ow. I am doing great. I never thought there would come a day that I would not think about the affair my h had. But that does come......Its a long slow process. I read a lot of books and heard from other people that after 2 years of recovery you really begin to forget.. And it is true...... I rarely think about it and when I do, its not a big deal. We occasionally have run into the ow and it doesnt bother me. She is now engaged.<BR>If you have any questions, I would be more than willing to help!<P>

Jo and Mickey,<P>Thanks for bringing this up, you know I needed to read someting to give me hope. I guess my long recovery time is not abnormal. I think is hard to hang on with repeated contact once you think the affair is dying and darn well should be over. <BR>Lora

Mickey,<P>I so needed to read something like this and really could use some help from someone such as yourself with patience.<P>I discovered H's A last July. He had one 10yrs ago that we both brushed under the carpet, and virtually learned nothing from. I was determined this time around, that I want our marriage to work and I want to learn what's wrong.<BR>We have been M 26yrs. and have 4 kids.<P>We tried MC for awhile but I discovered after in March had faked a business trip to spend the night with her and he would no longer continue MC from that point. He has never moved out though after the March incident I was pushing him to and he stalled. He does do IC and so do I. OW works with him and I have recently learned from him (through one of my first successful "honesty" talks because up till now I wasn't making it safe enough to talk) that there has been some more contact.<P>I only learned of MB around May and have been reading and learning all I can. I would say I have been fairly successfully Plan Aing since around June and H has been noticing changes in me but stays on the fence. This is the part that kills me the most because I constantly worry that this what he's use to from me in our marriage. Me forgiving, and working harder to please. I too have recently been contemplating more going to plan B. I go back and forth on this daily (probably hourly actually) because there are some things that are good as a result of my Plan A and I wonder if I only consider Plan B because I'm being impatient. Then I read a story like yours and it makes think I'm being terribly impatient. I've lived a year of pain/hurt missing the man I know my H was and though he accepts all the EN's I fulfill and try hard not to lovebust, a year+ is a year+ and you wonder if they will ever see/understand what they are doing to you. Since I am so accomodating I truly wonder what would be the movtivation to stop him from seeing OW. <P>How is it that you coped day to day living during that time period you spoke of when he moved back and then you found renewed contact. During that time that he was so desparate as you described how were you responding to him? Was he open with you about what was going on with him? Were you able to talk with him calmly? I always feel like I want to help my H through this but I'm sure that's part of the problem. I am a fixer by nature and I honestly am not sure how to respond to him. If I was going through what you did I honestly wouldn't know how to respond. Did you help or stand back? <P>People around me think I'm crazy to not make my H leave even my kids (22,17,16,11) have had enough. When my husband and I are together for the most part we have fun and enjoy being together. It's his job with travel and late night entertaining that is the most difficult. He thinks I should be just fine because as he says (he's not doing anything weird). As I have said he has recently admitted that he is truly conflicted, and so when he is away from me the insecurtiy I feel is overwhelming and it is harder for me not to lovebust. To let this thing do this natural death thing seems to me almost impossible, because I guess you get this feeling it will never die. My H has not experienced life without us, as yours did. Do you think that also was an experience that he needed to have in order to turn things around for himself?<P><BR>Sorry, so many questions, but your experience is inspiring at a moment when I could really use it!!!!!!!

4areason:<P>I am glad you responded. I would be more than happy to help you through this. I had someone named Kat1 from this board walk me through everything too, and it helped a lot. I have also helped another person from this board and she and her h are doing well.<P>Let me start off by saying that everyone has their own threshold of how much they can take. So, my timeline may be different than yours.<P>According to Harley, you should plan A for as long as you can stand it. This is to show your h that your marriage can survive this and you can meet his emotional needs. It will give him something to come back to if you have to go to plan B. If you begin to love bust and cant control it any longer it is time to go to plan B. One of the things that helped me not love bust was to remember that I was not going to give him any reason to go run to her. It was easier for him to run to her if we got into a fight. All I could think of was him running to her telling her about the fight and whatever I lovebusted about. That really helped me to cut down on the lovebusting.<P>My situation is a little different than yours. I did kick my h out and was about ready to do it again after he came back home and I found continued contact. I think plan B was good for us. It made him realize what he was going to lose. One of the things you have to be concerned with is to not let your h get his needs met by the both of you. If you plan B, he will find out in a hurry that she will not be able to meet all of his emotional needs. <P>You are right,, there is no motiviation for him to quit seeing ow right now.. He does have the best of both worlds. This could go on for a long time if it stays the way it is... <P>You asked about how I coped day to day when I found out about the continued contact. One thing that helped me is that I knew he was suffering from withdrawal, and he was making an effort to stay away from her, and I call his contacts with her as backslides,, and I knew that this was common. (still not easy to handle). But, the biggest thing that kept me going was that I was seeing progress in him. As time went by,, I slowly began to see my old husband come back..It could have been as little as a day he smiled, or held my hand or sang to the radio. He did communicate one time with me that he felt he was almost through everything and to hang in there. I think he had one last backslide after that.. And I am not sure if his backslides were just discussions about the break up, but it was contact, and thats all I knew. So, it is an important factor to know whether or not he is making efforts to not see her,, whether its a no contact letter, changing jobs or departments at work, accountability to you etc.. You need to know this. If he is just seeing her at will and you both,, and making no effort to get out of the affair,, I would say plan B for sure.......<BR>Otherwise the affair could go on forever and you will prolong your agony.<P>When he was deperate,, I was trying hard not to be his counselor,, but it was hard not to try to help him. I started just giving him some resources on how to help himself. He read Surviving an Affair, and some other materials that helped. He also began speaking with a guy from this forum that had been in his shoes, and another friend of mine that had an affair and wanted to help. Yes, he was open with me about what was going on.. But in a vague, very protective way so that he didnt hurt me more.. He would say things like " The pull is so strong", "Its so hard", "I need help"... He didnt go into specifics,, and honestly I didnt want to know specifics because I felt the more details I knew the more I would have to try to get over.... So, I did realize eventually that I could not do this or want this for him.. He had to be ready on his won. I eventually pointed him in the right direction, and let him find his way. Its very diffult to do especially if you are like me..<P>Yes, I do believe that my h needed plan B to turn things around. Although it took some more plan A after that, it helped. They have to know that this was there decision and that they were not forced into anything. They have to realize it on there own. <P>For me, even though plan B sucked,, it wasnt as bad as worrying when he came home late or wondering when he was with me if he would rather be somewhere else. Wouldnt you rather cut him free and let him realize himself how much he really loved you.<P>I needed to know that his decision to stay with me was his own. That he wasnt with me because he felt sorry for me or he just couldnt leave. I wanted him to know it.. Otherwise, he would always wonder..........<P>I want to help you if I can.. I know you will need someone as much as I did... Please hang in there. My personal email is pnagel@steelcase.com if you would like to write me there, that is fine. Take care!!!!<P><BR>