We have been married for 23 years. Four years ago I found out he was having an affair. He told me it was not important, and begged me to stay. We had a roller-coaster relationship after that. But I stayed because I still love him,he promised the world and we have two children. Last year I found out again that he was carrying on with three women, one was an ongoing affair from 7 years ago, and two were colleagues. I wanted to leave, but he begged me to stay and he cut off all his affairs. I had a difficult time forgiving him, and we had ups and downs for several months. Four months ago, I decided to work on the marriage, but he decided he couldn't go on with it anymore. Three days ago after a heated argument, he left the house, will not tell me where he is, comes back to take stuff he needs and visits. Wrenches our hearts to see him go again. I now beg him to give the marriage one last try for the sake of our children, but he claims he is exhausted and dead. What do I do now. After all these years, I truly love this man, I want my family together, but what is the best thing to do now?

Welcome <B>ls12</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P>For some clarity... a while ago... the "main" forum was divided into 4 separate "sub" forums...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Just+found+out...&number=29&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Just found out...</A>...for those new the forum... pre/post "discovery" of an affair or possible affair.<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Plan+A/Plan+B&number=30&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Plan A/Plan B</A>...usually after "discovery of the affair"...for those with questions of "what to do now?"<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=In+recovery&number=31&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>In recovery</A>...when a commitment to work on marriage by both spouses has begun.<BR>We are being asked to post the forums that make the most sense with respect to our questions/vents and not just dump everything into the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/marriage/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General+Questions&number=28&DaysPrune=10&LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>General Questions</A> forum because it will give you the most responses! <P>---------------------------------------------<BR>Now for your post....<P>If you really want to save the marriage...<BR>start immediately on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>!<P>Do get the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>!<P>And... come here and post frequently!<P>Prayers to you... <P>Jim

Is12,<P>It is a good time to start plan A. Read everything you can on this board. Then, post, post and post as many of us have been right where you are. It helps sooooo much to have the support of others. Also, it may help to read some of Dr. Harley's books. I know they have helped me realize what I did wrong. Of course, this helped me understand what not to do in plan A. Take care and hang in there.

Thanks NSR and Tulip for replying - I needed so badly to talk to people. The situation makes me feel so isolated and unsure about meeting even friends. Yes, I would love to start implementing Plan A, to show him that I could also try to meet all his needs. But how do I get him to come back home? When we talk on the phone, he says he doesn't believe me or trust that I will change. He's scared I will keep on hurting him with all the interrogations and rages, it's like living with landmines and he has to walk so fearfully in order to avoid upsetting me, etc. He keeps saying no, he won't come home. Is possible to persuade him? Is it good to keep trying to persuade him? Is this time to let go? I know it's not time for me to let go, not when I have just found out, from reading Harleys articles on needs, etc., that I had to change things about myself too, not only expect my husband to do all the changing and compensating. But how do I get him to come home?

Is12,<P>You may not be able to get you H to come home right away. Especially since he feels things will not change. When you implement plan A it will help show him you mean what you say. <P>Try not to lovebust as we all know that can be difficult at times This may require you to bite your tongue. Then, come here and vent, vent and vent some more. We don't mind listening (reading)! <P>Don't expect for the changes to happen overnight for either of you, just keep plan Aing. Let you H know you are there for him whenever he want to discuss issues, but don't pressure him into coming home. This may cause him to feel you are not changing and push him further away. <P>Hope this helps some. There are many out here that can probably offer better advice than me as my H has still not come home after 7 months, but we are at least discussing it. That is a long way from where we were 2 months ago. I wish I had found this site sooner as I wouldn't have made some of the decisions I have. Good luck plan Aing and take care.

Tulip -yes it helps some. What were the decisions you wouldn't have made? What would you have done differently?

First, I would not have filed for divorce so quickly. I felt at that time I had to protect the kids and myself. I'm still not sure it was the wrong thing to do, but I should have waited a bit longer.<P>Next, I wouldn't have blamed him for everything. That does not mean I condone his actions, but I did have a part in the breakdown of the marriage. <P>Finally, I would have been more understanding about everything. That could have saved a lot of fights and heartache. That doesn't mean I have to be a door mat either, but I feel my kids deserve both parents.<P>Looking back to times before the ow, I don't think my H would have cheated if I had been meeting his needs more effectively. Hindsight is always 20/20, I guess.

Tulip - I guess those were exactly the same things I wanted to do, the first time I heard about his infidelities. I just wanted to leave, divorce him, move out to another place and show him that I can do very well without him. Like you, I blamed him for everything. In a way, I feel I should have gone through with it when I felt strong enough to it. Because now, I don't have the strength to let him go. Can Plan A be implemented even after he moves out? <P>

YES!!! There will be some needs that you can't meet if he is not living with you, but there are others that you can meet. <P>If he hasn't completly moved out yet, I would implement plan A right away. If he is already gone or is still planning to move, still keep up plan A. That is very important! Take care.

Tulip - thanks, I will start with Plan A. I guess that means I should also stop begging him to come home (on the phone), right?<BR> <BR>When I first started posting, this morning, I assumed that Dr. Harley or a professional counsellor would be answering some of our queries. Isn't there anyone out there who will, or do we struggle on our own and help each other through our experiences? I really wanted an answer on how to win him back on the phone, or when he comes to the house to pick up some stuff, he hasn't completely packed yet, but he is staying away.

I would tell him that you love him and when and if he is ready to discuss your marriage you will talk to him. Other than that, I wouldn't say too much about him coming home. It may end up pushing him farther away. <P>Mainly, we all try an support each other. There are people here in all different stages of infidelity. The Harleys do telephone counseling. I have not personally tried it, but I have seen many other posts of people who have. You might try starting a tread asking information on the members that have tried the phone counseling. They could probably help you out better there.<P>Unfortunately, I don't know if you can win him back this soon, but Plan A will get you going down the right track. I had to implement plan B for several months before my H would even speak with me without yelling. I sure hope you don't have to go through that! Try not to get discouraged. That is hard, I know. Keep posting and asking questions!

Hi LS,<P>You're kind of jumping into the deep end first. Go back and read all the background stuff.<P>No here, you don't get the pros, just people who have experienced one side or the other, or both. We try to help and each other and be encouraging when things get a bit rough. There is telephone counseling, haven't used it myself but others who have were enthusiastic. You can learn about it on the home page.<P>There are a lot of wise people here, and you can get a view from all sides, stick around for a while.<P>Take care, best wishes.

Hanora - thanks. I'll try to find out more about telephone counselling.<P>I'm very depressed right now. I haven't slept, eaten, focused on anything for too long for five days. I'm a wreck. I know what I should do - get busy, go out, take the children somewhere - but I don't even know if I have the energy for anything.

ls12,<P>Yes... do go for the Harley counseling...<BR>...but he/she will ask you to read up on the concepts first!!!<P>Again... start out at the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A> site... and read from there!<P>As far as MB counseling...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> ($85US a pop... but well worth it) are with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>!<P>Once you get some of the basics of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... check out my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20000110-1-011323.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101</A> post (referenced on my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000013.html" TARGET=_blank>Notable Posts/Threads</A> post)!<P>Reading up on all these concept is very important...<BR>...do your homework first...<BR>...don't act out of haste, despair, or bewilderment.<P>Prayers... <P>Jim

Jim - thanks for the help. But I wonder how it telephone counselling will work for us, we don't reside in the US, we are on the other side of the world? Can we use DialPad, or something like that?

Gee...<P>I'm not sure how internationals are handled...<P>I'd say e-mail the MB counselors at counsel@marriagebuilders.com<P>I hope it helps!<P>Jim<P>PS: My understanding of DialPad is that it works for calls <B>from</B> the US... not into the US. Some countries are putting a block on DialPad calls originating from outside the US.