and I believed him, hence the name, Queen of Fools.<BR>I wish his wife knew these things,she does'nt, never will, so I need to vent here.<BR> 1. his wife is a cold, unresponsive woman, who does not care about his wants and desires. She does not touch him or show any affection, until she wants a little. Even then, its very minimal.<BR>2 He is only with her for the kids' sake. If they did not have kids, he would be gone. He wants to leave her when the kids are grown.<BR> ( wonder how often this line is used? )<BR>3. He loves me, and has never felt this kind of passion before. Why couldn't he meet me when he was younger.How can he live without <BR>me, he said.<BR>4. He's never done this before ( had an affair ) LIE LIE LIE!<BR>5. If I was single, and I asked you to marry me, would you? ( how romantic, huh? )<BR>6. You'll never be treated better by anyone but me ( I think he meant WORSE!!)<BR>7. I will never hate you, you will always have a special place in my heart.<BR>8.You are the most beautiful woman I have ever seen. ( he needs to get out more often??!)<BR>9. I will never hurt you. ( he must have meant, i will never hurt you more than 100 times )<BR>10. We have something special.<P>Not all betrayers have an affair to hurt someone, I never meant to hurt my spouse, my family, anyone. But I did, and I am very sorry.It is kind of like temporarily turning into someone we no longer know.I can't change my past, but I can make the future better.<BR>Thanks for allowing me to vent here.<BR>I wish you all the best.<BR>QueenofFools

Sounds to me like your on the right road. Let your mistakes of the past be your strength to make the wrongs right. Once you do that bottle it up and send it to me, my wife needs it.

Wow! I'll bet my H used most of those. I know he used #1. I agree with Getting Better that you are definitely taking the right road.

Getting better,<BR>Time is the key to forgiving yourself, learning from the mistakes and trying to make things right again. Your wife will reach this point, please be patient. If she is anything like me, it is hell trying to live with what we have done, but there will come a day when you have to forgive yourself and move on, or let it eat you up and destroy your life. <BR>I have learned from my mistake and luckily I can spend the rest of my days telling my husband how sorry I am, and making him happy, and that is what I am going to do.<BR>I wish you and your wife the best.

QueenofFools,<BR>I am sure my stbx used those lines......but mainly I believe she used them more. She told him he will never be happy with me and that she was the best thing for him.<P>Sadly he believed....how sad.<P>I am glad that you wrote those....I have heard all of those before.....but I didn't cross the line in my marraige. I had a guy saying all those things to me, and although no affair took place.......those words sometimes made me wonder.<P>Thank you<BR>Nancy<P>I wish you the best....I am so glad to see you saw him for what he was and thought more of your marriage......I wish that my H would have woke up.

Generic lines but they all prey on the vulnerabilities of a female.<P>There's always a little truth mixed in when lies are told.<P>Thanks for spreading the word so others won't become suckers. It sounds like you won't get burned again.<BR>

My H said much the same to his OW. I know because I found his letters to her (e-mail) and he also said some of the same things to me. I think betrayers are basically all the same. If nothing else, I have learned that here. For a while I felt worthless and like I was a failure because of those things he said about me, but now I realize it's just a way to rationalize and justify hurting the one person you are always supposed to protect. My H left in January and is still involved with his OW. I realize it's pretty much over between us, but it still hurts. Thanks for sharing these "lies" with us who are betrayed. We need to hear it. It made me realize he's thinking of no one but himself and he will do anything to keep his fantasy going.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Mental,<BR>Im sorry for what you are going through.<BR>You don't deserve this.<P>Cuckold,<BR>true true true!<BR>I should have never put myself in the position to get burned the first time.<BR>I feel soooo STUPID. Wish I could turn back the clock. Would have never hurt my husband.<BR>Thats more important to me than feeling foolish for falling for some players lines.<P>Keridwen,<BR>Im sorry.Please dont feel worthless and like a failure, I know I made my spouse feel the same way. Yes, the way we treat our spouses is the way we rationalize and justify our behavior.He IS thinking of no-one but himself, unfortunately. <BR>I think when they finally "wake up " shame might keep them away. But, they do wake up eventually. I'm sorry for what you are going through.

Hi QueenofFools:<P>My H has probably said it all too, I know he did. In fact, he said a few of those to me (even tho the first thing that came out of his mouth when I "found out" was about sex, which I thought we had no problem with).<P>However, I just wondered about a time frame. How long did it take for you to wake up? Did your affair partner wake up? Or did he just move on to another woman? Are you trying to make your marriage work now? If so, how is your H doing (sorry, just read that you are)?<P>I myself am a wreck and can barely function on a basic level, left with 2 kids, no job, 2 dogs, a huge house I can't afford, in a place where I have no friends or family for help - and he acts as if moving in with his OW is the most righteous thing he's ever done in his life.<P>It's hard.<p>[This message has been edited by weirded out (edited March 21, 2000).]

Wierded out,<BR>Thank You for the response.Reading what you wrote breaks my heart.<BR>Its strange how some betrayers don't mention problems in the marriage until they confess or are caught. Again, i think, its all part of them justifying their behavior. I did the same thing Though now looking back, things were not bad in my marriage, it was me that had the problem, and I should of have found other ways to boost my self esteem.<P>It took me about 4 months to come out of the fantasy and realize what i was doing - the Om never did wake up, and hated letting me go. I am sure he has moved onto other woman. <P>I BEGGED my husband for forgiveness, and continue to do so. The affair has been over for 2 years and everyday I remember what I did to my husband. I will never again allow myself to be in the position where an affair would be possible.<P>My husband is doing pretty well, he still has moments where it all comes back to him,<BR>but those moments are getting to be fewer and farther between. We talk alot, and that helps. We will get through this nightmare.<BR>Together.<P>I'm sorry for what is happening to you,it makes me so sad to see so many people going through this.<P>I'm sorry <BR>

By the way, I am not at all forgetting what I not only did to my husband, but what I did to the wife of the other man. I cannot, unfortunately ever get this woman to forgive me, and will not be able to make things right , like I can with my spouse.<P>What I did to his wife bothers me as much as what I did to my spouse.<BR>

QueenOfFools,<P> One thing I have somehow forgotten is that my wife has been much in tune with me and she has done a excellent job heading off painful thoughts before they have a chance to form. She has ben very much in tune with me and what could affect my mode. I'm such this is a major effort on her part and yet somehow I seemed to have forgotten it.<P> I really needed to remember something like this. I'm not sure what is going on with me right now but I do know I need to see what she is doing for me right now.<P> When I talked about using that wrong to be the power to make things right this is what I was talking about. She has done this for me and it would take love to maintain that high a level of awareness to see even the smallest thing that could upset the betrayed spouse who is sensative to almost anything.

Hi QF:<P>Thank you for your post. I'm very happy you were able to get your marriage back on track. I wish more people cared enough about other people to realize how much it hurts. You won't get any unkind words from me. To do that would be saying I'm perfect, and I'm not.<P>I just wish my marriage could have been saved, and the OW obviously doesn't care about the devastation I'm experiencing and that of my 2 little boys. She has no children, divorced her H for mine, and got a "close-by" apartment by their workplace, hence the hell of lies and deceit I've been thru during the last 6 months.<P>Neither of them bat an eye at what we are going thru.<P>Well, we are getting better little by little tho. This is not to say I wouldn't want my H back (only, he'd have to actually be sorry and change back into the other guy). We've been together 20 years and it's hard to stop loving someone in 6 months even tho they've done some pretty awful things.

QueenofFools,<BR> How are you doing? #8!!!My W said OM told her she was the beautiful woman he'd ever seen.HELLO....she's 43,and no spring chicken anymore.He's 31 and you mean to tell me he hasn't been around younger,more attractive women?I can't believe she fell for that tired,old line.Just wondered,did you get the"Where have you been all my life?"line,too?Are some women really that naive to fall for these ancient come-ons?<BR>--Murph

Hi Murphy,<BR>Its all part of the fantasy. Sometimes a womans self esteem is so low, that hearing she is the most beautiful woman, and all that<BR>follows is an incredible rush for us, we want to feel that way.. and hearing it makes us feel soooo good.<P>yes, I certainly did hear the line, where have you been all my life.The list above was just a very short list of all the things I heard.<P>Yes, some of us are very naive - like I said, it may have been a long time since we heard how wonderful we are, that we are special, pretty , sexy, that hearing it is an incredible feeling. We want to hear it more! We WANT to believe they mean what they say.<P>Unfortunately, some people know what to say to get what they want. <BR>Live and learn I guess.<P>Best wishes Murphy.

QoF,<P>Glad to hear it's getting better for you and you learned something from all of this mess.<P>Hopefully my Wife will realize someday soon how foolish she has been.<P>Before she left she told me the om "had not had a serious relationship in ten years" and "hadn't had sex in four or five years." Whether she believed it or not I don't know (I suspect she did. Talk about believing what you want to, eh?)<P>I think it was Steve Harley who told me "if it's a choice between following your emotions or following your logic, emotions will win out almost all the time."<P>Glad to see you woke up!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

QoF,<P>Hi, thank you for sharing that information. I really can't relate to much right now, but just wanted to say hi and that I enjoyed your post. Dana<BR>

my H was actually using the exact SAME "lines" on the Ow as he used/uses on me. she emailed me everything on discovery thinking I would just die when I read the things he said to her, but actually I laughed at a few as they were the EXACT same things he says to me. Couldnt he at least be original! If only SHE knew that, and how much we were having sex (bet he said we never did) and yep he used the tired old line " I cant leave because of the kids" (theyre not even living with us).When I asked him later about that comment, he actually said "well every man is going to say that isnt he when the Ow is pushing for him to leave the marriage"<BR>Oh I just could BARF sometimes at the crap that goes on in affairs!!!<BR>Hope you are on the road to recovery, and wish you well, GREAT TOPIC!<p>[This message has been edited by azure (edited April 12, 2000).]

QoF,<P>I am so gald you learnt from your mistake. I wish my husband would wake up and realise what a terrible mistake he is making. I am sure he says those things to the OW but he is still in denial and says they are not having an affair, but he sees alot of her.<P>Will she ever realise that what she is doing is wrong. She is just encouraging an appropriate friendship/relationship which I know will develop into more given some time. <P>I think you have to have some sort of conscience to even think that what you are doing will hurt others. This my husband doesn't seem to have.

Queen:<P>I know in part what my H said. He said he would love OW forever...I also know (from their e-mail) that OW knew H had no intentions of leaving me. He just wanted it all.<P>Just last night (after a particularly interesting round of "antics" by OW which seemed to be aimed at hurting me) I wondered what She thought was going to happen with the relationship. <P>Thank you for your candor. Thank you for reminding me that the behavior of the OW in my life may have less with trying to hurt me and more with trying to avoid confronting the parts of herself she doesn't like. --HBC