When my H was here to drop off our child, I mentioned a problem with one of the dogs. I just got an email from him in which he said that he always felt like I cared more about the dogs than him or the kids. No matter how hard I think, I can't come up with anything I have ever said or done that would cause him to feel that way. The kids have actually in the past accused me of not liking their dogs. I feel like I have spent the last 25 years in a parallel universe. He never said a word to me in all the years we have been together that would even have given me a hint that he felt that way. <P>Who knows what other thoughts or feelings he is attributing to me that are only in his mind? How could our marriage ever have had a chance when I had absolutely no way of knowing that he was resentful or hurt or whatever when he never gave me any indication whatsoever. It's not like I can see it in retrospect - I still have no idea what he is talking about.

Nellie, Do not take this personally. Your H suffers from either depression, low self-esteem, lack of confidence...all of the above. Your H really needs some counseling. <P>I say that not meaning to say hurtful things about your spouse, but because I know my H suffers those things. I know (without him telling me ) that he thinks that I care more about the kids??? my friend???? the furniture?????? than him. He has always been emotionally needy. <P>But, having him tell you this is actually a great lead in to some plan A. As hard as you can..... DO NOT mention problems with the dogs or the kids!!!!!!!!! Come here to vent or to a friend. <P>I found that my H has been blaming his leaving to the chaos in the house and the disorderlyness of the kids. (he has denied any relationship withOP to his family)<P>As hard as it was, I DID NOT tell him most of the aftereffects on the kids. I confided in a few close family members. I shielded him because it seemed to me that it made himfeel too guilty. It seemed to me if he felt too guilty he kept in his fantasy.<P>You have three more kids than I do, so I know it is difficult for you, but maybe if you live your life like you don't need him he will feel less trapped. (again, I know this is hard with kids.) I'm just trying to come up with some kind of working solution.<P>Sometimes trial and error is needed in these types of situations. <P>My guess is that if you could get him to admit it, he would tell you he feels like a failure as a husband and father. ( he is just proving himself right, right now!!!)<P>I say this to you because I notice that my H seems to be doing a lot of things he did not do when he lived here (around the house or disiplining the kids.) <P>I have really thanked him for these things and truly meant it. I always appreciated the things he did (I think) but I guess I didn't do a good enough job of letting him know of my appreciation because I wear my emotions and thoughts/words on my sleeves and most likely appeared "harried" with the "stresses" of the kids and house...

I probably won't mention the dogs again, because he announced in his email that he doesn't want to discuss anything with me except the kids and divorce. I guess I don't even get to discuss selling our house, though how we can do that without mentioning it I don't know. <P>I will never understand how he can hate me so much.

Hi Nellie,<P>Hey at least he e-mails you back. My stbx always said...it is over between us......so I will not talk to you about what went wrong or how you feel.....but.....if you would like to talk about the divorce...I would be more than glad to.<P>Do they have a heart?<P>Nancy

Nancy,<P>Actually, he rarely emails me back. If I talk to him in person when he is here, it is not unusual for him to send me an email a few hours later with some complaint about it. <P>No, I don't think they have a heart. I don't understand why anyone would ever consider getting married, except that they wouldn't believe that someone who once loved them could be so cruel. That is what they should teach instead of sex ed - that there is a high probability that the person you marry will end up hating you. Someone in our town murdered his wife and kids about 10 years ago. My 9 year old daughter asked then how you could know before you married whether your husband would later murder you. I felt so bad for her that a nine year old would even have to worry about things like that. Obviously most men don't murder their families, but abuse is a very real possibility, and it seems that desertion and hatred is more likely than not to be the outcome of marriage. <P>This extends far beyond questions of not meeting his "needs" - unless ability to read his mind is an emotional need. He admits that he never gave me any indication that there were problems; he admitted actively trying to hide his feelings from me. Yet I was supposed to somehow figure out what his needs were while he tried to make me think they didn't exist. It is like he was looking for excuses to hate me. <P>I can't look back and say, "I should have realized that..." because he did his best to make sure I didn't realize it. He actively tried to make this marriage fail. He actively tried to make me dislike him - and when that didn't succeed, he had an affair. This is not just a matter of my doing all the work in this marriage - it is like a tunnel that I was digging, and for every inch I dug, he filled in 2. <P>

You know nellie, this is just my amateur opinion, but I think your H feels guilty as h**l. That is why he is acting so cruel.<P>Just a suggestion, but why not start to back away alittle at this point. Why not NOT say anything to him when you see him. Why not detach. <P>Can you get a sitter and go to a sep/div group like parents without partners???? <P>I don't think there is anything wrong with telling our WS that we want to work on the marraige, but we also need to have some control in our own lives. <P>

tootrusting,<P>Unfortunately, if I don't say anything to him, I don't find out what transpired at the doctor's appointment that he took them to that I never knew about because the email he sent was lost. If I don't say anything he won't tell me until the last moment when he is going to pick them up. Sometimes there are things about the house or the kids that I have to tell him about - I don't just make idle conversation. If I don't tell him important things about the kids, he will blame me for that too. <P>Once in awhile I do go somewhere without the kids - not PWP because my sister and a friend both had terrible experiences with men they met there, and many people have said that it is a meat market. Now if there were such a thing as Farmers without Partners...<P>When my H first left he sometimes seemed a bit guilty, but as time goes on he just seems more and more angry. If he is feeling guilty he sure is doing a good job of hiding it - but then again he has plenty of practice hiding his emotions - probably from the time he was a little boy.

Nellie:<P> When my H first said he wante to leave, he said he felt like he was at "the bottom" of my list...well below the kids and pets. Of course, he wasn't, but somehow he felt that way. And, it effected our relationship deeply...we both had very different views of what happened from there...<P>I think sometimes a problem starts small, and somehow it takes hold and grows until everything is seen thru this false lens...my H got the idea I did not love him deeply {probably bcs I always WAS very focused on meeting the kids needs and taking care of the house, etc. while he traveld...but it was not a question of love, but a matter of taking care of things for US...after all, they were his kids, his house too.). Anyway, once someone gets an idea like this, they can easily start resenting everything you say/do, bcs they now see it thru a negative filter.<P>Anyway, I agree with Sweetpea that it is good that he is offering you a tiny bit of an opening...<P>{{{{{{{{{Nellie}}}}}}}}}}}

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sweetpea:<BR><B><BR>So, why not e-mail him back:<P>Dear H,<BR> I've been thinking over what you said about feeling like I cared more about the kids and dogs than I did you, and I think I can understand how you felt that way. The truth is that I did and do love you very much. I guess, like many wives, I got so caught up in the hustle and bustle of caring for our family that I must have put your needs on the back burner. I can't tell you how sorry I am for doing that. I wish I had realized how you felt and made a greater effort to reassure you of my love for you.<P>I do love the children, of course; they are the best parts of both of us. What kind of mother would I be if I didn't love them? But, the dogs? I'm fond of them, and they need care; but, they are definitely not more important than you.<P>Thank you for letting me know how you feel. I apologize for my part in failing to let you know how very much I do love you.<BR>]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Great email, I just used it for a similar incident, and modified the words enough so<BR>that it works.<P>great suggestion, thanks, I needed something<BR>positive to say to my W when things aren't getting any better.<P>thl<BR>

Sweatpea,<P>Unfortunately, what he said was that he thought I cared more about the dogs than I did about him or than I did about the kids. And I really have absolutely no clue why he would have thought that. If he had said that he thought I cared more about the kids than about him, I could understand it somewhat, since of course I did spend a lot of time on the kids. But the dogs? That came completely out of left field. I am not sure how to respond to that attack, because I can't figure out what basis it possibly could have had.<P>kam,<P>I guess it is good in a way that he actually told me something he was feeling, but I don't know how to deal with something like this that as far as I can tell doesn't even have a grain of truth in it. It makes me wonder how many other things he thought I felt one way about when I didn't. I have read that you should go back and analyze your part in marital problems, but I never would have thought that he perceived things that way in a million years.

Oh, I misread your initial post...that he felt you cared more about the dogs than him OR the kids?? That sounds odd. Maybe, tho he is generalizing the way he felt...rational thought does NOT necessarily play a role in how he feels right now. Feelings are based on perceptions, not necessarily on what IS.<P>Anyway, it IS a chink, and if you follow Sweetpea's general idea, you will be leaving the chink open for (hopefully) future communication...tho that may take a while to come. <P>Meanwhile, hope you and your kids are hanging in there...<P>Kathi<P>

Sometimes these people take things personally that should not be taken personally.<P>After a run with my wife, I told her the pace was uncomfortable for me and I could not run that speed with her. She recently told me that she interpreted that as a criticism, and that she felt she was not good enough. Although I only mentioned my feelings, sometimes, they take it, interpret it and remember is as criticism because it was the best they could do, and they are not equal to you. That also assumes that all spouses are equal in all ways.<P>That tends to happen where competition between spouses exists, or low self esteem<BR>interferes with rational thought.<P>When that is a frequent occurance, as with my W, intimate conversation is lost, as one cannot express true feelings without the other being criticized. Definately a barrier to intimacy. For me it happens all the time, so the end result was a slow, painful reduction in intimacy to where we never could talk about feelings, only schedules and weather.<P>That same occurance happened in my MIL and FIL's marriage. The only talk they have is small talk, which my wife is great at, but I am not as it never really addresses inner feelings, hopes and desires.<P>thl<P><BR>

Hi Nellie, <P>Just a quick observation about this comment:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I will never understand how he can hate me so much.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It seems pretty apparent to me that it's not you that your husband hates, it's himself. If he really didn't care about you one iota, he certainly wouldn't waste his time making statements to you like the one about you caring more about the dogs than him. <P>He is obviously not very secure in his decision, and instead of ever admitting fault, it's much easier to direct that hostility in your direction. If he allowed himself to show you anything other than hate or disdain, it would open a flood gate of emotions that he's not capable of or willing to accept or deal with. If he makes himself believe that he hates you and that your marriage was the atrocity he's claiming, than he can live his life without the guilt that's buried deep within him. Fortunately, it will never dissipate. It'll rear it's ugly head one day, if it doesn't eat his insides before then, and then it'll be way too late to rectify any of it. <P>At any rate, if he was really comfortable in his decision and your marriage really wasn't so awful, then there surely isn't any tangible reason to hate you. It's the only way, in his immature mind, to deal with the myriad of emotions inside of him. One thing it'll never do is exonerate him from the decisions he's made. He has to live with this the rest of his life. No matter how much time goes by, that guilt will always be there, like a ticking time bomb. <P>It may not seem like it now, but you're going to be better off than him. He'll never forgive himself, and you have nothing about yourself to forgive. That'll be your payback. <P>Well, that wasn't exactly a <B>quick</B> observation, I got long winded. It's just that your husband's behavior is so typical of an insecure person who isn't secure with his decisions. Easier to blame you than deal with the guilt. What a copout! <P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller<BR>

Distrusting,<P>I hope you are right in your analysis. Unfortunately, I can also think of a couple of other explanations. It may be that he is not as happy in his current life as he had hoped to be, and he is blaming me for "making" him have an affair and leave. Or he could be angry because the kids irritate the OW, and consequently she is preventing him from seeing much of them, and he may be blaming me for the kids' lack of perfection. Not that either of these explanations are logical. <P>Kathi,<P>I know it is all a matter of perception, but that is what makes it impossible to meet the needs of someone who never shares his feelings. Without being able to read his mind, I have no way of knowing what his perceptions are, especially when they are so far out there. At least my kids tell me what their perceptions are, however inaccurate they may be.<P>But if he really thought I was putting the dogs before the kids, as a father it would have been terribly irresponsible of him not to say anything about it to me.<P>WhenIHavetheTime,<P>I do think that low self-esteem is interfering with rational thought in his case.