Catnip,<P>I really DO think that this "girlfriend" character IS the OW.<P>Best thing to do is just ignore her...

WOW, Catnip, did you start something? Girlfriend has really taken off on you. I always believed that adopted children were in most cases more loved than some natural children, because those parents had to wait so long to obtain that child who was only available to them because some mother decided to put her child's needs ahead of her own. I know, because my husband travels a lot, that being a parent a lot of times by my self, is heard. he checks in everyday he is gone, gives input on their action and is as involved as much as possible, yet from a distance. Those days when I am home alone with our children some days are overwhelming expecially when there are problems; or 2 major events and I have to choose which child's event I will attend. I do not know how single moms do it. My heart goes out to those moms. That's why I believe the OW who keeps her child is being extremely selfish. I stayed home with my kids. So even though their dad is gone 80% of the time I am available to them. (He does try to be home for those special events). But, if I had to work and raise my children alone, the days are so short, the money would be short, I do not know if they would have turned out as well as they have so far. Children are such gifts, that's why I do worry about what's happening to the OC in My H's life. Yet it is not a child he wanted or asked for. He feels he is being forced to pay for 18 years for a mistake he made. What ever goes to her is something he is depriving our children of, be it emotional involvement or finances. Wouldn't she be better off with 2 parents who chose her. Just my thoughts. Sorry so long. <BR>Catnip, have you thought of starting a part II. Girlfriend you are off base when you abuse the people here.

The advantages of a two-parent home are well-documented. I easily found articles, both on and off the 'net, about the advantages fathers bring a child, both financially and emotionally. That does NOT mean Everyone from single-parent home does poorly, but those children ARE statistically at risk! <P>What "girlfriend" is doing is flaming-- WRONG, wrong, wrong! I hope the board monitor will take note; I haven't time to email him/her, too, right now....<P>catnip, I have utmost respect and admiration for you in your decision to use adoption, and it puts your current feelings in some perspective. My best wishes!<BR>Jenny<P>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited May 08, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited May 08, 2000).]

Hi, I am new to the boards too. Sadly enough I am also in the same predicament that many of you are in. The OC in my case is 2 years old. My H and I have 3 children, and I have tried like heck to keep their world sane. <P>I couldn't help but respond when I saw Girlfriend respond to Catnip in a very cruel manner. I could almost swear that this is the OW involved in my marriage. She is just as hateful, and vindictive as Girlfriend. My H's XOW has played so many games throughout this whole ordeal. This poor child has been used as a pawn to achieve her goal. <P>Get this ladies, my H was using birth control when she talked him out of it. She told him that she couldn't get pregnant, and he was stupid enough to believe it. <P>I could go on and on ranting, but I am sure you all know what I am talking about already. Catnip, just overlook those like Girlfriend. She isn't worth the time to get upset over. Obviously her life isn't so grand, or she wouldn't be here attacking other women who are in a difficult situation.<P>Coach Mom

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Girlfriend:<BR><B>I'm told that affairs are often an expression of hostility toward one's spouce.<BR>So you've obviosly "inspired" one other person to vengfull wrath, I'm quite certain there are/will be others.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you understand how affairs happen, how is it that you think yourself immune and sit in judgment of other people's situations? It is SO common. People choose a bad way of coping with emotional issues, and yet you and your husband are perfectly content with your perfectly content child? I wonder why you are here then?<P>

Popeye,<BR>Come on...where did I ever say I had a perfect life? (there is no such thing as "a "perfectly content child" past the age of 11!).<BR>I am a single Mom who felt I had something to offer my child that goes beyond money, and could not be found in the kindest two parent adoptive home. <BR>I am sick of the hypocrisy that potrays ALL married families as supierior, and single moms as "bon-bon eating, welfare cheating, lazy, soap watching, sluts who live off fat of the land at the expense of *innoccents*<BR>I don't know ANY single Moms who fit that description!! Once about 10 yrs. ago I knew ONE woman who was like that...and ANY (Ahem...) man...who would have crawled in bed with THAT, Would NOT be welcomed back into mine EVER!!!!!<BR>Catnips H is BP & an alcoholic. very manipulative I would bet, She admit's that he went after this woman "with a vengence" She has absoulutely NO ONE to blame but him.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Girlfriend (edited May 08, 2000).]

Gorlfriend:<P>Of course there is no one to blame for what my spouse did but my spouse-EXCEPT for the OW because she was well-informed from the beginning.<P>I called her after their first weekend and told her how sick he was. She told me she was going to kick my [censored] if I called her again.<P>I was polite, and kind to her but she wanted what she wanted. She knew he was easy to manipulate and aggressively went forward with the knowledge I gave her. My fault thinking I could appeal to her sense of decency and thinking any woman who called me and told me that my new man was married and sick would react the way I would-and bow out immediately and graciously.<P>I don't know any situation on this forum where the wayward spouse was 'passive' as they all go for the affair with some degree of aggression. <BR>But, this isn't the Jerry Springer show where everyone is combative and confrontive. I must have hit some nerve with your issues.<P>You sound calmer today. I am glad you're feeling better.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

I HAVE LIVED THROUGH IT! My H now had OC with his ex-girlfriend. This happened years before we were married. We had decided to be exclusive when the bomb hit us that his ex was pregnant with his child. Of course he did the begging her to get rid of it, but she was determined to keep it. He let her know that he wanted to be with me and blah, blah, blah, but she kept it. At first I was like NO WAY, am I sticking around to be any kids step mom when I didn't have any kids of my own yet! I knew that he wasn't the type to walk away from responsibility and so did she. At first I wanted NOTHING to do with his child. But then when child was a month old a realized that if I planned on being in this man's life then I have to accept this child also. I did that, and this child is now my step-son and older brother to me and my H's children that we have together. Don't get me wrong, it was HARD. Insecurity of him being around the ex. Hatred for ex keeping the child knowing that he didn't want the child or her. IT WAS DARNED HARD. But then i thought, yeah, he say's he didn't want a child with her, and yet he did NOTHING to ensure that she didn't get pregnant. So I will always put the blame where it need be and that is on HIM! I wouldn't even let his ex have our home number until 3-4 years after the child was born. I would cringer when hearing the ex's name! But time does heal. It helps that H let it be known where and with who he wanted to be with and marry. His son is as part of our lives as the children we have together. Ex was even at our wedding. We talk at the childrens functions, school events, etc. You can GO ON even after an OC is introduced into your lives. When I think about it, I couldn't imagine not being a part of my step-son's life. And I don't refer to him as my STEP-SON when I introduce him either (just here), H and I introduce them as our children because we are a family, and we do it as a family, not half. It took years to overcome the anger at the ex, and I wouldn't have imagined back then that we would be friends now, but we have our life seperate from her and she from us. I do think she chose to have the OC as a way of holding on, but that is something that she had to live with and I am sure that she has learned that it was a selfish thing to do, but she has moved on from that and so have I. We are married, we have our problems but we are a family. Time does heal the unimaginable.

<BR>trying2_4give,<P>That was an uplifting post. Thanks.<P>Bystander

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by trying2_4give:<BR>[B]I HAVE LIVED THROUGH IT! My H now had OC with his ex-girlfriend. At first I wanted NOTHING to do with his child. But then when child was a month old a realized that if I planned on being in this man's life then I have to accept this child also. Hatred for ex keeping the child knowing that he didn't want the child or her. IT WAS DARNED HARD. ...But time does heal. ...You can GO ON even after an OC is introduced into your lives. [B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you for your inspirational words! This is one of the sides of the coin that I was looking for. I can understand the feelings of all women who have experienced this, as I am going through them all! It is nice to know that, in at least one case, it doesn't have to be a forever adversarial relationship. <P>You are a wonderful woman to stand by your family in this way. I am sure it is not the choice best for all people, and maybe not the best for me, but knowing that it can be a *successful* solution gives me a more balanced picture of the possible future.<P>I am sure that no matter what road we take when faced with such an issue like this, it is a painful one. Your courage and determination are completely admirable.

Thanks to all for your kind words, but for those who are currently going through it, believe me I UNDERSTAND the pain of it all. AND I MADE SURE H KNEW. I would LB all over the place. I even contemplated getting pregnant from someone else in revenge to see how he would deal. YES IMMATURE and DISGUSTING, thank goodness that was over 10 years ago, and I have matured a lot since then. And I can't imaging giving birth to a child that is by someone I could care less about. I just wanted to share my story and how it did work out. I did get pregant with H child soon after his first with ex was born (before we were married). I said that the reason I became pregnant was because I wanted a child which was true, but I do admit now, that a large part of it was insecurity and childishness. Basically a, "See I can do this too, so you(EX) have nothing over me, I have his child too". I have never said that outwardly, but it was what I felt inwardly and I hate to admit that basically I had a child for the same reasons she did, to KEEP HIM, but that is what happened. I don't regret having my first child, but I do hate the REASONS why I chose to do it. Like I said now we are a family and 10 years ago, I never thought that I would handle H (though we weren't married at the time) having his first child with someone else. H made his intentions clear to me and his ex and luckily she didn't take him to court for money or anything like some of the horror stories that I hear happen, largely due to the fact that he was a REAL FATHER not just a weekend dad. So we both (ex and I) were extremely lucky in that area.

Trying:<P>I truly admire your courage and your compassion to include this child in your life. Do you think it was a little easier to do this because it occurred before your spouse committed to you? Do you think you would have been this way and felt the same had it happened after x amount of years of marriage? It sounds like your heart is big enough no matter the circumstances.<P>The fact that you can admit certain vindictive actions, though not acted upon, impresses me. I have a tough time being magnanimous towards the OW, but, it's strange, I feel that this OC is somehow mine, or should be. I would never take steps to try to get custody because in part to my age and our kids are in their late twenties-early thirties and I have two grandchildren. Having the energy and stamina required to raise children is tough when you're past 45, as in my case.<P>Popeye: Your generosity and love for your husband is deep. Does he know how you feel and what you are thinking of doing? He's a lucky man and I hope he knows it.<P>Catnip =^^=

T24G,<BR>Thanks for your post. It also inspired me. I just started plan A (one week today) and dont know how long I can keep it up especially since H has not for real let OW know he wants our marriage (tells me he wants it and says he told her he wants our marriage but sees her and spends 98% of time away from me....) but hearing your story gives me a different perspective. I needed to read that.<BR>Kris

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by catnip:<BR>[B]Popeye: Your generosity and love for your husband is deep. Does he know how you feel and what you are thinking of doing? He's a lucky man and I hope he knows it.<BR>[B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just trying to make the best out of a bad situation, just like everyone else.<P>Yes, he knows. I think it makes him despise himself all the more. His self-loathing makes it harder for us to work things out. <P>I am leaning towards leaving him, but every now and then I glimpse the guy I fell in love with and... But love is not enough. He loved me when all this happened, and it didn't change anything. I'm trying to be fair to everyone involved, but ultimately I am going to make the choice that is best for me. No more self sacrificing door mat!<P>Having this place to share all your experiences, vent, and ask for help has really made a difference. Thanks to you all.

To answer Catnip, I really can't say what I would have done had it happened during our marriage. The thing is when it happened I was in love with my H as I am now. Of course my anger would take over in the beginning and I would say HELL NO, I am outta here. But you can't shut the human heart off like that, I thought I could back then, and I couldn't. I think what helped me decide to stay was the fact that he made it clear to everyone especially ex that he wanted to be with me, that he had no intentions of marrying her and of course back then he didn't want her to be the mother of his first child (yes those are terrible things to say, when YOU could have prevented it). But he first concern was me and what I was going to do and the worst part for him was how to tell me that she was pregnant. So I am quite sure those things helped me to KNOW that he was trying to make things clear to everyone were he stood. Also, the fact that he is a great father.

>>A woman involved with a married man, no matter how much he tells her he loves her and is going to leave, is plain STUPID to have a child under those circumstances. It is pure selfishness.<<<P>Why make such a general statement? Perhaps in your case this is true but I would like to shed some light as the OW who is now raising OC single-handedly.<P>Am I proud of this? Absolutely not. Would I do things differently if I could turn back time? Absolutely. In a moment of weakness, our minds were clouded and WE produced a child. I hate to think of myself as "selfish" for keeping my own son. In fact, I see myself as just the opposite. If I were selfish person then why am I the one taking him to dr. appts, giving breathing treatments, changing countless diapers, cleaning up his vomit when he's sick, rocking him to sleep when he's hurting, ON MY OWN. Yes, a child deserves two parents but reality today is that MANY MANY children are being raised single-handedly. One could say that giving a child up for adoption is selfish....to have your freedom and not be bogged down w/ the day-to-day responsiblities of raising a child. I don't agree with that statement. It is a very personal decision and there is no right or wrong answer. <P>MM threatened to take custody of our son or have nothing to do with him. I never had a problem with joint custody but in his selfish terms it was "all or nothing". It has taken me 2 years to get to this point but I now understand WHY he and his wife chose not to be a part of our son's life. I can only imagine the pain that it would cause because I experience the guilt and remorse, daily, everytime I look into the eyes of our son.<P>How will I raise my son? What will I tell him? Those are tough questions. What my son will grow up knowing is that there are no boundaries in the love that I have for him, that his Mommy made some bad choices. One day, he will know the truth. I am not perfect, his dad his not perfect but I can't imagine terminating the pregnancy after seeing a heartbeat on the sonogram.<P>We are all just trying to "make it" in this world. In these type situations,everyone loses. W looses because she did NOTHING to deserve any of this, son looses because he will not know or have an intimate relationship w/ his dad nor will he know his sibilings, MM looses because giving up a child has got to be the hardest thing that anyone would ever have to do, and here I am raising a son on my own. <P>I came to this board nearly 2 years ago so that I could understand WHY a person would walk away from their child. I understand that the relationship between MM and I ended but to desert your first born son! I have learned a lot over the last 2 years just by browsing posts...doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt, but at least now I understand WHY. Hopefully we can all help each other in some way.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by justme:<BR><B>>> I would like to shed some light as the OW who is now raising OC single-handedly.<BR>Am I proud of this? Absolutely not. Would I do things differently if I could turn back time? Absolutely... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am sure that XOW have feelings too, and when you are able to share them as you have, with taking responsibility for your actions and trying to be fair to all parties, it takes a lot of the flame out. Thank-you.<P>I can't say that I don't think having a child with a MM is not selfish though. Personally, I would not have a child, or pregnancy, out of wedlock even if the man and I were both single. I DO think that is selfish. I respect other people's rights to don the "it's the 90s" attitude, but it's not a choice I'd make for me or my children. My vision of what a family should be is just different I guess.<P>Yes, doing it on your own is a gesture of love for the child, but it would have been an even greater sacrifice and greater reward for all to wait for someone who loved you, was committed to you and could be a partner to you and a father to your child.<P>I'm sorry that you are in your situation. What is done is done. We all make mistakes. I hope you can learn from this and have a happier life in the future. I truly do.

How could a man "give up on" his child?<P>Because he probably had to CHOSE between the Other Child and his wife with any children he has with her. It's not pretty, but it's reality. Dealing with a child of adultery is NOT the same as divorce, because any continuing contact between "affairees" is a constant threat to the rebuilding of the damaged marriage. The hurt spouse is often too hurt, too angry, to want to be the contact with the XOP, even for the child's sake; OR, the XOW can't talk with the wife. The affair parties have already proven that they cannot be trusted and must EARN back trust by NOT having contact; words have become meaningless. It's incredibly difficult if not impossible to co-parent with an ex-affair partner. In many cases the marriage OR the XOW/OC must go. It's ugly. It's painful. EVERYONE loses. The pain seems to live on and on and on and on, and I personally see no happy ending. <P><BR>[PS Why "firstborn son"? Are his other children "just" girls? What difference does that make?]<p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited May 10, 2000).]

Jenny, Popeye:<P>I concur completely. You two women are so wise. I love reading your posts and your compassionate common sense.<P>Catnip =^^=