Hi,<BR> I know how hard this is, the uncertainity, the not trusting, the guilt for not trusting,the painful memories the list goes on and on. I think you need to find out for sure what is going on there? You don't deserve this craziness! You need to find out if he is with her or if his job really is taking this long. you owe this to yourself and to him to if he really is being faithful.<P>Love,<P>Jill

Can you take a trip up to see him? Call him, or have him call you a bit more frequently. Make the opportunities for seeing her harder. Anyway prayers. It may be nothing, and you certainly have the strength to help him past temptation. Make the opportunities for plan A. <P>hugs...

(((((wassi)))))<BR>i know how you feel, and it is awful. i would be afraid to find the truth, but want it more than anything.<BR>you are in my thoughts,<BR>julie<P>------------------<BR><A HREF="http://www.go.to/wcu" TARGET=_blank>loveWASblind</A>

Ladies<BR>Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.<BR>I tried to reply earlier but the computer wasn't cooperating.<BR>he is apparently on his way home. Something odd in his voice but I guess I'm just oversensitive right now.<P>Jill<BR>You described the feelings perfectly.<BR>I guess I will always have this uncertainty as long as I don't have the closure. Too many years of "friendship" behind my back to be over it so soon. Especially since that door is wide open. <P>beth<BR>Thanks for the prayers and vote of confidence. I seem to be a little sapped in the strength department right now. You have all helped so much!<P>julie<BR>Is there any such thing as truth?<BR>Thanks! I know you understand.

My h is a fool. (we already knew that). <P>We went on vacation in February. He decided to drink adn the monster came out. He beat me up and I stood up for a change and called 911. He was arrested and spent 65 days in a Va jail while I came back to NY.<P>I went down to testify. He pled guilty. Now he is back in NY but not with me. I have an order of protection. He is working and trying to get himself together.<P>He was caught by me at the place where his "Friend" works. He said he was just talking to her to find a place to live. I told him that was one more promise that he made to me that he has broken. He didn't even defend her though when I called her every name I could think of. <P>Later, he said that it was no more than I saw and that he will avoid her in future. He ws apartment hunting at the time.<P>Anyway, he has a decision to make about alcohol and his intentions toward us.<P>I will try to stay closer. I miss you. God bless.

Keep the faith. It is almost like a test that big black hole that we keep slipping into. <P>We climb up, see alittle ray of light, and our footing fails.....we slip back down into the darkness.<P>I am there with you. It is difficult to tell yourself to keep climbing. I know how hard it is for me!!! The trust....or the lack of it....or the lack of faith in believing in the one person who was to treat that trust in a gentle,loving way....that is the heart of the issue. <P>I know for me, my H was one of probably only two men that I trusted. I trusted my H whole heartedly. In fact, I discounted many other men in my life, waiting till I was mature (32) to marry... I really looked for a person of integrity...an honest...etc. man...oh well!! you know the rest.<P>I truly understand your sadness. My H moved out 3 months ago. I think the situation with he and Op is dissipating, but I still wonder. tonight I called him after he was here to see the kids...My youngest wanted to talk to her daddy again. I called his apt. He didn't answer so I paged him. He called back immediately but when he said the phone didn't ring I didn't believe him.. I told him to hang up and I would call back. I did and he answered. It made me sad to realize, I might never be able to trust another again.

dreamer<BR>You sound so good. I mean it. You sound so confident. We have grown in a year haven't we? Just one of my yuck periods you had to pop in on. Don't go so far again. <BR>My E-mail is mmawilliams@hotmail.com. Keep that and don't disappear. I miss you too.<BR>Now your H. Yes he needs to get it together to deserve you. The alcohol has got to go. You know mine has the same problem but he just turns sleepy and stupid. Biting my tongue now.<P>tootrusting<BR>Thank you so much. I know you understand.<BR>I decided a long time ago that trust is not my goal. Safe is my goal.<BR>Did you watch Phil on Oprah?<BR>The one thing he said that really hit home with me went something like this:<P>Trust is not being niave but knowing that you can handle whatever your spouse does.<P>I think that is a more attainable goal don't you?

Dreamer does sound good, doesn't she... <P>Wassi, you sound better too. Been on my knees 3 times for you today, lady! I sure hope you can feel it! You are a very very special lady. Never forget that, okay? You are VERY VERY special. And cared about tremendously by many. God bless you.... You remember what bless means? 'to make happy'.<P>

Not a failure, you know. One of the strongest, wisest women I've known!<P>These things are tough. You've been through so many. I tend to agree with Connie - something good is going to come of this - I just feel it. Maybe just a little extra strength, just knowing you got past it. But something more, I feel.<P>He probably DID have a strange tone in his voice. It's a trigger for him, too, you know? And he will definitely pick up on YOUR insecurities right now. I don't know why, Wassi, my silly intuition I guess, but this one's gonna be ok. He's being the man you need him to be right now.<P>You'll pull yourself up, I know you will. You always do. And we're here loving you and holding out our hands to give you a boost!!! <P>Love you, Wassi.<P>Lori

Oh wassy, so sorry I am late!<P>I had two concerts at the school and was going crazy over here, didn't even check the forum.<P>I'm not sure what I can offer in terms of advice or comfort, everybody has been doing it so great!<P>All I can tell you is that the feeling is oh so familiar... Having to work away for so long is not easy, and to top it off with working in "that" place... well, let's just say I understand ( remember my anxiety even last year?).<P>On a positive note, bellieve me wassy, this year my H can go to Barrie anytime. I don't even worry ...it might remind me, but not in a painfull way anymore. More like a "I'm glad it's over and we were able to sail trough" kind of way.<P>So my friend... it's just one more little "jump", things are fine now, soon you'll be able to go trough this in a different way. Give it some more time.<P>Hugs, hugs and more hugs<BR>Kat

Good morning my friends!<P>TNT<BR>I felt it all day! I am much calmer now and I have no doubt that all your prayers are responsible. There certainly wasn't anywhere left inside of me that calmness could come from. <P>Lori<BR>I needed that boost. I'm afraid I will be needing it for a while yet. H and son arre leaving Sat. for a fishing trip. I will be alone again. I'm glad they are taking the fishing trip but you know what lonely can be like. Then when he comes back I know it will be another trip to Bimboland then a months work just a little farther from there.<BR>Speaking of intuition...did I ever tell you that the first time I replied to you on the forum I KNEW you were a winner? <P>Kat<BR>I know you understand. I wish I was as resilient as you. You are my hero. <BR>Lectures welcome.<P>H is home now. I am very withdrawn. While he was away I realized that he is rating a D- in rules for recovery. He would like to reap the benefits of my work but hasn't got the TIME to make me a priority.<BR>His job is such that he chooses which projects he does. Once he has committed to a project there is no turning back. During the affair and the courting period with Bimbo he was either not working or at a job that was only 4 days a week. He gave her time. He made her a priority. She was "now". I am "tomorrow". I will always be here, he can put off working on our marriage.<P>He is good and kind but he has not done any of the work in recovery. My Giver is spent.

Hi Wassi,<BR>It's all right to let the Giver take a break, but do be available in case he does want to give to you. Now, after my "break" (don't do what I did), my H says we both need to work on the marriage. I won't work alone, but I will meet him halfway. Before I was doing my work in the marriage and his work...and wondering why I was so bummed out. <P>I do get the feeling he wants me to go all out like I did for so long, but some days it is difficult enough to generate the will to want the marriage at all, much less work like a dog on it. I mainly avoid those LBs, I invite him to the house and sometimes out for a date, and I am genuinely glad to see his face when we're swapping kid duties.<P>I wish there was some switch we could flip for "his turn" and wire it into permanent "on" position .<P>Take care.

Lor<BR>You just got the biggest smile and chuckle out of me that has escaped in a week!<BR>A switch.<BR>Could we make it a control panel and wire it to turn several different things on? Like maybe the brain some days? <BR>You know what he asked me last night?<BR>"What do I need to do?"<BR>DUHHHH! Not like I haven't been pretty specific for how many months?<BR>I just asked him if he really had no idea what he needed to do. He said he knew.<BR>I don't think that classifies as progress.<P>So dear lady did we work too hard?<BR>Did we get anywhere?<BR>Yes a break is in order. <BR>Find a convent for us yet?<BR>

Maybe he was hoping your requirements/needs had changed? "Why, honeybabe, y'all don't need to to nuthin'!"<P>I don't know, I think his asking is a least an indication of awareness. Certainly that would have been a step forward SOMETIME.<P>Hmmm, a switch and a remote control, now that's the ticket!

Hello my dear Wassi -<P>I saw this and have been praying for you even though I didn't have time to post till now.....<P>Have you REALLY been listening....to us....to God's message to you? <P>Do you know that you are a very special and strong woman? Do you realize that these lonely times bring about all sorts of thoughts from cobwebbed corners of our brains? <P>We have two choices when this happens. We can withdraw and give way to the nasty cobwebs taking over the entire brain or we can break out our brooms and sweep them away......<P>Your H is home till Saturday....what are you going to do? He is not in your brain and doesn't know about those cobwebs.....he is just seeing withdrawal. Is that good? <P>Just like he is not in your brain - you are not in his. Perhaps he feels as unsafe as you? Perhaps he has that uneasiness bolstered by your withdrawal? Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't like working so far from home for so long either...... maybe he was so looking forward to coming home.....<P>Are you showing him that you like when he is home? That you feel safe and he should also?<P>I know that you have learned that we can hold onto things or let them go if they are only part of the cobwebs. Complete closure is very elusive to most of us. Perhaps the step by step approach (yes, even though led by us!!) is the way to "safe".<P>Ok, that's the philosophical end of things to tell you.....<P>More practical measures - Pick your spirits up, Wassi!!! He's home!!! Show him that you are VERY GLAD that he is!!!<BR>Give fodder to his somewhat clueless "proactive marriage building" brain just what it is to behave like you actually ARE HAPPY to have each other around!!!!<P>Remember that we all tend to react to each other....there is always a certain amount of mirroring.....<P>Crack that mirror!!!!!<P>Forget those idiotic words of that person passing himself off as a counselor. We are better at it then he is remember? <P>Remember also, you're "taking back" trip that you made....was that only for you or was that to let go of the area in regards to both of you? Obviously it didn't cover completely when just H goes close to there.....how about going to stay with him there for a bit? Is that possible?<P>Take it back TOGETHER......<P>Just throwing out anything I can think of to you Wassi.....I love ya and don't like it when you are hurting so. Especially on things that are mainly from our own brains. You can decide to help yourself with this one. You really can. <P>You know what I notice a lot....we have this tendency to only think on how much our H's are not really doing to learn, rebuild, change behaviors or whatever when there are circumstances that scare us going on. We don't really give it too much dwelling time when they are close by and life is "normal".<P>Hmmm? What does this say? <P>BIG HUGS, PRAYERS and STRENGTH,<P>Sheba

Hey - you gals were posting as I prattled!!!!<P>I like the switch idea!!!! Remote is an excellent one too!!!<P>Wassi, he's open...just fill his head gently!!!!! Too much at once triggers the automatic shut-off mechanism!!!!<P>Tell him you need a hug...to start!!!<P>

Lor<BR>I think you're right. I think he's been hoping for a very long time that if he waits long enough the requirement needs will change to nothing.<BR>However I am at the end of my rope. I'm tired of being "tomorrow"<P>Sheba dear!<BR>Knew you were praying. Knew you'd be here.<BR>What you say makes perfect sense as usual. If I wasn't so tired I guess I could control the withdrawal. He knows why it's there. I've explained this to him. He knows the key to my door is at his disposal. There is another door that needs to be shut or this lock won't work. Yes I'm being stubborn. I tried the giver thing for a long time before it became exhausted.<P>I forgot a very important detail in the story.<BR>He came home for 1 day, 2 nights last week. I did all the things in your post above. I was ecstatic that he was home. I hugged and kissed and all that other stuff. I made his favorite meal. I was fabulous.<BR>He went to sign something at the bank 7 minutes away and I heard from him 3 hours later. This when we had limited time.<BR>He was sitting in a lounge with bimbo's friend.<BR>He came home. He reaped the rewards of my work and then buggered off to enjoy his other interests.<BR>That is why this homecoming was not as friendly. That is also a big part of the reason I was in the state I was in the other night.<BR>I think his control needs more than a remote. A major kickstart with a frying pan?<BR>

Hi Wassy,<P>Sorry you are having such a hard time. I will pray for you.<P>I just had a thought. Maybe do it to him. Say you are going to run an errand and leave. Not come back for three hours and say oh I am sorry I decided to go see a movie.<P>Tony would threaten to leave me and then runn of. Of course he would always come back a little latter and say he was sorry and did not mean it but come on. He would also hang up on me if we were talking on the phone and he did not get what he wanted.<P>So I did that to him. Boy did he not like that one bit. But he could not say anything because he did it to me. If he did start to protest I just said...ohh it is ok for you to do it to me but not me to you. There is no real rational reason to counter that. So now he does not do it.<P>Let you H know the consequences to his actions and then do exactly what you say you are going to do.<P>Just my thoughts.

Well Geeeeez Wassi!!!!<P>I would say that that was a VERY important part of the story to leave out!!!!!!! LOL!!!<P>OK....hmmm? Then forget what I said above and just beat 'im up!!!!<P>Sometimes they NEED to be dominated!!!<P>LOL!!!<P>Why are they such JERKS!!!! And why can't we act as "Jerkily" without a thought in our head and/or a care in the world?<P>Sex change? (ooops!! Sorry guys!! Just some nasties coming through!!)<P>Love ya Wassi,<P>Sheba

Paha<BR>Thanks! I use that tactic on occasion and may be doing it depending on the next 24 hours.<BR>How are ya? I tried to respond to your thread earlier this week but was not in a very good state of mind. Been thinking of you!<P>Sheba dear!<BR>Smack me too!<BR>I just talk so tough but here's my afternoon's version of withdrawal:<P>I asked H if he wanted to go to the garden center. We went, picked out flowers for my new flowerbed, stopped at the lounge for a few minutes on the way home. Then he insisted on getting me a dozen donuts.<P>I give up!<BR>When you do Plan A this long you are incapable of anything else. It's true!<BR>I cannot shut off even if I want to. I cannot close up even if I want to. It is the way I am now and there is no alternative in a relationship once you have learned what I have learned here.<P>You should have seen me. I found a package of my favorite Burgandy snap beans and I was like a kid in a candy shop. Now why would he bother to put any effort in when I'm that easy to please.<P>So much for my plan. <BR>Well I did learn something today. Dr. Harley's plan is a way of life. It is not a plan to end the affair or recover from it. It is a lifestyle. Seems I heard that somewhere.