I have been told twice in the last week that an internet affair is not a real affair. That on the scope of things that can happen in the marriage (no offense is always said) it's pretty low on the totem pole. <P>Arghhhhhhh!!!!<P>As if seeing your spouse with their pants down cooing to some strange woman on the phone is any less painful than catching your husband in bed...<P>Well at least I can't get a STD. Maybe a bacterial infection if he didn't use soap and water beforehand. <P>Anyway, now that I have that off my chest. I guess it just really irritated me because the woman who said this went through the pain of seeing her husband flirt with another woman. I thought she understood. Never expected her to diminish what I'd been through.<P>I also know that was not her intent so I smiled politely, but boy it irked me. <P>Ok guys thanks for listening to my rant. I feel better now.

It does feel better, don't you think?<P>Anytime your spouse is getting needs filled by someone other than you, it is an affair. Plain and simple. They all hurt the same, people that are supposed to love you the most cause the hurt.<P>There should be no totem pole, were all on the same playing field.<p>[This message has been edited by Goober (edited May 11, 2000).]

Hi Beth,<P>No I beg to differ with that woman. All of Tony's affairs were started on the Internet. Two went real life. It hurts. <P>This last group I came home and caught Tony putting his pants on trying to stop me from going into the computer room. Nice. Jerk. <P>It is real and it is painfull all the same.

I guess it's kind of that, <BR>"I did not have sexual relations with that woman" kind of thing...<BR>(Apologies to any offended Democrats)<P>I think it would be interesting to do a study on that particular historical event, and how society's perception of adultery in general changed as a result. Probably would be difficult to get a baseline though.

beth28<P>I agree with you that an internet or email affair is devastating. Please don't jump on me, but I am the betrayer of one of those artificial affairs. In the beginning I told myself I wasn't doing anything wrong...it was just typing. The phone calls were just talking. In my case, I fell in love....or I thought I did. I'm still in a confused state of mind, so who knows what I feel at this point? <P>My H made a comment about what a guy would do on the phone...about the pants being off and I scoffed at that, claiming it wasn't like that. Thinking about it, it probably was, but not for me. I've been struggling with withdrawl...and reading your post has actually help me get the rose colored glasses off.<P>LS<P>

I'm being told the same thing by my Fiance and others! Not an affair. Just a "game" Then why do they hide it and lie about it? Why does it usually progress to phone calls and "real" contact if it's just a game and not real!!!!!!!!! <P><BR>

Steveoo...Sometimes it can be a game, but it is a dangerous game and if the two people keep it up, you can count on it being very real and not just typing. In some respects an EA via email, can be more detremental then an affair based on sex. In the beginning of the email romance there is a whole process taking place that unknowingly to the participants, allows their emotions to get involved. When the sneaking and lying start, it generally is because the person does not want to admit that there is anything really going on. Most people think of an affair as having sex, not just flirting with each other. I know I did. I just kept telling myself, I was not doing anything. I had done plenty...I allowed my emotions to become completely seduced. I really think this type of affair is a million times harder to shake then something based on just sex. <P>

I guess part of me has a real hard time saying that someone who is masturbating while typing explicitely on a screen and talking explicitely on a phone to a real live person on the other end isn't some form of sex. <P>I mean there hasn't been an exchange of any kind of fluids, but that's about it. Emotionally, and even physically there has been a level of intimacy that I just can't shake off as harmless typing. <P>It's the whole argument that oral sex isn't sex. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. <P>One other thing to consider about internet connections. I just read in the paper about a 15 year old who thought she was speaking to an 18 year old. She ended up going to a swimming meet. He met her in the hotel they were staying at and he was like 40. He almost raped her if it wasn't for the fact that her mother happened to get suspicious and did some detective work.

Well...can't resist this one...may get "roaststed"...but hey...it wouldn't be an MB site without that!<P>I am in a very strong EA via the internet right now...both of us...having only met over two short days back in December. There was no 'intercourse' but some sexual contact.<P>We are also both painfully trying hard to "make the break"...knowing as we have for some time, that this relationship is not right. And we read here often and hear how all of this is a "fantasy"...and not real,etc. Perhaps this is hindering our "deliverance"...but I have a hard time thinking that I am just living in a "dream world" and that someday...if I come clean all the way, will look back on this as if it were a bad dream.<P>I can see where a day would come when I am ashamed and broken over what I did to my wife and famliy...as I have never been proud of this. ( I confessed to my wife in Jan. after the meeting...broke off contact, but resumed contact a few weeks later) Yes...these are very strong and real "bonds" that are involved here. <P>We have never justified this relationship...never made plans to leave our spouses...and while we both feel very compatiable...and feel very much in love...and wish deeply we could have a chance to have a life together in a way that would be "right"...we still struggle to do what we NEED to do. <P>Honestly...we are like two lonely sheep who both stumbled off into a ditch together...and are struggling daily to get out. But make no mistake about it...I just don't know anyone will ever convince me that what we have felt and experiened was just a "fantasy". Wrong? yes...breaking the rules? Of course. But face it...we all got married at one time to other people...based on these attractions and "feelings"....and no one said those were not real. <P>I, for the life of me, would have never thought I could be in this place...of falling in love again...feeling this way about another woman. But I did. I am sure my life will never be the same. I can only pray that somehow...my marriage will survive as the marriage of my "internet companion".<P>I use to shake my head in disbelief asking "How in the world do people get into these kind of places???" <P>Now I know.

Hi Beth!<BR> If it feels like an affair it IS an affair...I'm with you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I guess part of me has a real hard time saying that someone who is masturbating while typing explicitely on a screen and talking explicitely on a phone to a real live person on the other end isn't some form of sex. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> If I try to eat lunch and hold the phone at the same time, I inevitably drop either the phone or the sandwich...he must be pretty coordinated

beth28...you are absolutely correct about the dangers of the internet. It can be dangerous...it has opened up a whole medium for scum bags, con men and women, and just plain crazzies to pounce on the vulnerable, young and old. From your post, I gather you caught your H having a wonderful time with himself and a little help from a friend on the phone. I'm sure it was something you could have lived with out seeing.<P>Anyway, just to set the record straight...I agree that some internet romances are 100% true affairs. I'm not sure about talking dirty on chat rooms though...how about men who masturbate looking at pictures? I know I'm splitting hairs here, but there are some differences. I think men who have a problem with that have another kind of addiction. I know what you described was different. I know there are basically two types of affairs...love and physical. How you get there I quess isn't important.<P>

I just have one question.<P>Never having done this before, how can you get any typing done with just one hand? I have enough trouble with two...

I have a question for NoMas...you said you confessed to your wife about this OW on the internet...did you tell her you were in love with this woman and wanted to be with her? I somehow don't think you were that honest, or she wouldn't still be living with you as your wife. Has the OW confessed to her H her deep love for you? I am not judging here because I was virtually in the same type of thing. I know when my H and the OM's W found out, they were not as forgiving. The OM was delivered an utimatum me or the marriage and my H went balistic for a month. My H found out the true depths of my feelings for the OM by reading my journal and quess what we are getting divorced. The OM spoke of me the way you spoke of this woman you are involved with....the only difference is he did break it off; he had no choice if he wanted to save a two year marriage. I'm sure he didn't tell his wife the same thing he told me either. <P>I know I'm regressing from the point in question here...are internet romances real an affair...whatever? Yes, they are. <P>

Lonely...<P>Your questions are fair ones. <P>Neither me nor the "OW" shared the depth of our feelings for each other to our spouses.<P>I can only speak for myself here as to why.<P>About a year ago...I was being drawn to another woman at work. It scared me as I had never felt such a temptation before. I had never given my wife any reason to worry about me...and this was never a problem area for me in our 18 years of marriage.<P>At that time...we were in a difficult season of life...getting ready to turn "40"...wife in school...very demanding schedule...as well as my work load...along with three kids.<P>The marriage had kind of been put on the back burner. We had always had a good marriage....but the past several years...things got stale. WHen I first shared with my wife about this situation at work...she seemed kind of put out. I had come across this web site here at MB...read the book "His Needs/Her Needs...and felt like I had discovered what was happening here.<P>Unfortuneately...my wife just did not feel like she had the capacity to handle this problem...or really focus on helping meet needs" at this point. I felt very alone and discouraged and afraid...and ended up inovolved with another woman here on this site. She became the sounding board for me...and ended up meeting some of those needs I was longing for at home.<P>When I did confess to my wife....she was devesated...her world was rocked. She NEVER thought this could happen to her or that I was even capable of doing this to her. Just the thought of something like a "brief meeting" was hard for her to swallow. I was very worried about totally sabatoging her schooling with only 6 months left.<P>I would very much like to have shared with her the depth of my problem and need...but I honestly did not think she was able..willing...or wanting to hear it. Maybe I was wrong...but I think I know her well enough to have made that choice.<P>She told me after I first approached her about dealing with the weak areas in our marriage...that she just had to much on her plate with school and the kids....to be try and "meet all my needs as well". Kind of like...just do the best you can until I am out of school. <P>Guess I did not do very well.<P>She does not know we have been in contact. I feel bad about this. I just think the depth of my problems will not be resolved without her total support and help. She has been too busy to do this for some time. Perhaps things will change.<P>By the way...I do not deny the fact...that I have been involved with an "affair".<P>Internet....email...phone calls...etc...everything but seeing each other. Quite a deal!

NoMas...thanks for answering. You are probably going to tell me to butt out on the next thread, but this relationship sounds so similiar to the one I was in, I can't help myself. I hear you saying your wife was too busy with school, she couldn't give you what you needed, family, etc, was in the way to meet your needs. You claim to love this OW, but you know you have no future with her. So what is the point then? You cannot email each other and talk on the phone for the rest of your life...you just can't. Eventually, you are going to want to be together; face to face. Then what? I am sorry I hear people rattle on about being in love with the OP, but they love their S. Maybe I'm dense and I'm missing something. If you love your S...I don't mean feel guilty over what you've done, but if you love them then you give up the other OP. If you love the OP, then is it fair to live a double life, share your body with your S, but give your heart and soul to the OP? <P>I know exactly what you are saying. But eventually, you are going to have be honest with yourself and come clean. I know I wouldn't want someone who was in love with another woman. I would find it humilating...that he was with me out of obligation. No, thank you, but that is me. <BR>

I know I cannot stay in this place. I am trying hard to move on. My head says one thing, my heart says another. <P>I will get to where I need to be..and hopefully...things will line up again with what is right.<BR>And I hope my wife never knows...just had badly my heart strayed...<BR>

NoMas...I am sorry for being such a downer...I quess I was just feeling ultra crappy about my situation. I finally had to say to the OM...look do what you need to do, but I can't do this anymore. It was painful and horrible and I miss him every day, but I knew if I left my H I didn't want to stay in a relationship with a married man and if I stayed married I had to stop. He chose to try and work it out, I didn't. I felt like the biggest jerk in the world, sleeping with someone and dreaming of another, so I stopped. I am sorry though for being so hard on you....I wish you happiness and luck in whatever you decide.<P>LS<BR>

Grandpabri-To answer your question...hunt and peck. <P>No that is certainly a site I hope I never have to come acrossed again. <P>There are a lot of gray lines here, and when my husband came clean I often wondered how the courts would interpret this? Would it be considered adultery in the eyes of the law? <P>When my friend said to me that this was basically small potatoes in the grand scheme of things, I was upset sure, but I also wondered how much worse could it have gotten? Let's say they met and actually exchanged fluids...would I have felt that much worse? According to my friend I should have been thrown so deeply into the pit of despair (comparing to where I actually was thrown) that I would immediately have impaled myself on some sort of sharp object. You know where I think my emotions would have gone with it? I would have been a bit more concerned about an STD, a bit more angry because of the danger of an STD and that's about it. <P>I guess I just don't see as big a leap from phone sex to sex as she does. Especially when there was an emotional connection between them, especially when he was willing to walk away from everything we built together for a women who he'd only heard her voice and seen a picture she sent him. There wasn't a whole lot of other places left for him to go with that relationship.<P>What NoMas says is exactly what my husband said. He had this special connection with her. Never thought he would find anybody else. Didn't want to lose me, but didn't really want to be married either. I was the good friend. She showed the promise of passion. He wanted both of us.