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#868817 05/28/00 06:11 AM
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I'm looking at my H's behaviour and trying to figure out just what it is he wants in a woman.<P>My H chose me because I am not a drinker or partier. He respects that and feel secure with me. But the OW are partiers because he needs someone to party with. (I socialize, but selectively- not with people who wake up naked in places they don't remember how they got there or with people who black out.) <P>He chose me because he can trust me with his money. He wouldn't let any of the OW near his money. <P>He chose me because he knows I am faithful. Obviously the OW are not good candidates for that.<P>He chose me because I am educated. None of the OW are educated women, but he isn't either. I think it makes him feel like he has more of a connection with them or that he is smart in comparison?<P>He chose me because I am strong and capable and can handle any financial or emotional crisis. He dropped two OW because they became demanding and couldn't deal with stress.<P>He chose me because I give him freedom to pursue what makes him happy. His OW are clingy and end up getting left for that.<P>He chose me because I am efficient and take care of everything. These OW can't take care of anything, but sex. I think it makes him feel powerful to be the one in control, yet he wants to be taken care of at the same time.<P>He said he wants children, but children with ME. He knows how much I value the family relationship, yet one OW had his kid out of wedlock and he despises her for that. One OW tried to get pregnant (a fact he missed or overlooked) and failed. The other OW is MARRIED and has abandoned her H and child. None of these women are good candidates for a long lasting family life.<P>So, what is it he is looking for? He seems to want everything that I am not, yet dumps it when he has it. <P>The very things he loved in me are the very things he seems to reject in me. So, is he just trying to get away from everything that reminds him of me? Is he just out trying to have some fun to balance out all this stability? Is he just concentrating on feeling good and not seeing the bad stuff in his OW as "bad stuff?"<P>My guess is that your spouses OP chose people that are not like you too- is that correct? Anybody got any answers or feelings about what it is they are looking for? It baffles me.

#868818 05/28/00 07:52 AM
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Imagine - you're H and mine sound a lot alike. I've decided that mine just doesn't know what he wants! So he's trying out his options. Mine's realizing, though, that the "grass is not always greener". <P>childless<BR>

#868819 05/28/00 08:44 AM
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Your H sounds very, very confused and immature.<P>My H chose me for the many of the same reasons yours chose you. After 18 years of marriage, and a very stressful last two years, our relationship was a bit frayed, and he "fell in-love" with a co-worker. He loved her because she was caring, mature, responsible, intelligent...the same kind of reasons he had fallen for me initially. Luckily,they did not allow the affair to become physical, and we are rebuilding & doing well now.<P>Good luck.<P>Kathi

#868820 05/28/00 12:14 PM
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Popeye,<P>I think you're right. My H's OW (both times) are nothing like me. I'm talking from careers, values, morals, standards, spirituality and even looks (although thats trivial in my book).<P>OW is a career welfair mother.<BR>I've worked at a job my entire worklife.<P>OW goes to bars every night (aka bar fly) and drinks like a fish.<BR>I haven't been in a bar for years now and don't really drink.<P>OW is not domestic in any way.<BR>I love to cook and take good care of H.<P>OW is aggresive, jealous, possessive and pushy.<BR>I allow my husband space and his freedom and have never been possessive or jealous. What's the point.<P>OW has fake tits. <BR>I have real ones. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>OW has sex with H's friends if he won't be there for her.<BR>I am faithful no matter what.<P>OW is high strung and unstable.<BR>I am low key but bubbly and always there for him.<P>OW says bad things about me.<BR>I stay on nuetral ground and restrain myself from disrepsecting her to him.<P>OW is needy and not self sufficient.<BR>I am strong and can take care of myself and him w/no prob.<P>So what do they want you ask??? Maybe what they can't have until they get it and then, of course, don't want it. Ultimately I think they want the attention that a crisis or affair brings. They are the focal point of everyone's interest and receive nassive attention, whether it be negative or not. Attention is attention when you're in this "fog".<P>Your thoughts?<P>Best,<BR>-Jo<BR>OW

#868821 05/28/00 12:20 PM
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By the by ... in my last post there was an "OW" showing aft my name. It was a typo. I am not an OW by any means.<P>-Jo

#868822 05/28/00 10:56 PM
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<BR>I agree that it does seem like when a man finds an OW it is usually a woman of lower intelligence, looks and morals....but that's the type of woman who gets involved with a married man. <P>I think it goes back to emotional needs... if a man needs more sex...then he will find a woman who is highly sexual...usually she won't be particularily chaste or faithful, but he won't care (at first). <P>If he wants his ego stroked, he will find a needy woman, who will tell him everything he wants to hear to get him to stay with her and away from his wife.<P>If he wants to party, then he will find a woman who will drink with him, usually in a bar in the company of other men.<P>I don't think you will find many men looking for intellectural stimulation or companionship in an affair,...although finding a woman who shares your business interests or leisure-time activities can be stimulating for some men.<P>My particular H found what he was looking for in a stupid,ugly,drunken, sexually liberated OW with lots of problems he can help her with so that he doesn't have to deal with his own problems and short comings. Just my opinion of course.<BR> <BR>Buffy <P>

#868823 05/28/00 11:15 PM
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Hey Buffy ... don't hold back. Tell us what you really think of your H's OW.<P>I too want to slam the OW, she's been so horrible to me. She can't just have sex w/my H, oh no, she's got to call me and harrass me. Send me hatemail and leave me filthy msgs on my ans machine. She is so aggressive, I didn't know what to think.<P>She was referring to my H as "My Man this" and "My Man that". Thought I was listening to the Jerry Springer Show. Didn't know what to say, because it would be like talking to someone from another planet. Real "street" thie one. Like I sd before, she's been rode too hard and put away wet. Sorry.<P>-Jo

#868824 05/29/00 09:14 AM
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I understand your hostility towards the OW in your lives. My wife had an affair with a married neighbor so that makes her an OW too.<P>The OM was my friend for several years and I knew him well (at least, I thought I did). He is caring, sensitive and not afraid to show his pain. He is very generous and always willing to lend a helping hand. He likes to enjoy life and likes sharing it with those around him. These are some of the reasons we became friends. Of course, he does have a distorted view of loyalty and morality. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>My wife is attractive, intelligent, loving and caring amongst many other attributes. These are some of why I fell in love with her.<P>So, like Kathi said, I think sometimes they choose people who display the characteristics we displayed earlier in our marriages.<P>While the affair itself is a horrible act, that does not, in itself, make the parties horrible people. If that we're true, none of us would be on this site.

#868825 05/29/00 01:36 PM
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Sorry that was nasty<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited May 29, 2000).]

#868826 05/29/00 11:11 PM
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Gonnatry:<P>You are right that we have let our personal experiences with our H's OW over influence our judgments regarding the general characteristics of OWs. Perhaps a bigger sampling of opinions would give us a better idea of what the majority of OW are like.<BR>Since we don't have that then we perhaps can't give anything other then our personal <BR>experiences and they can be taken as such.<P> <BR>Buffy<BR>

#868827 05/30/00 02:55 AM
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Buffy and others. I'm in the minority here but I am a betrayed wife also so here's my opinion. The OW in our case is intelligent, funny, beautiful and sweet--no Jerry Springer show here! A very tough act for me to follow (like trying to beat out Grace Kelley) but for some reason my H and I are doing relatively well. <P> OW was able to meet the top 6 of my H's EN's extremely well when after 13 yrs. of marriage and a very demanding career, I admit I was only haphazardly meeting--no excuse, right, but NOW we know how affairs begin! <P>I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT OUR H'S WERE/ARE AFTER! What are your H's top 6 EN's? Were you meeting them? Are you trying to now? You got your POJA going?<P> Sorry for your pain, friends. Sometimes I wish I could hate her--I think I turned the blame all on my H since he's the one who said the vows to me, not her, and she never said or did anything untoward against me (besides the A). I know my scenario is rare here. That's why I felt I had to respond, so now you got your variety of opinions.

#868828 05/30/00 05:14 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>The OW in our case is intelligent, funny, beautiful and sweet...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think you are far too generous in your appraisal of this woman. She may be funny and beautiful, but she's also STUPID, selfish, and of low moral character if she got involved with a married man. <P>Okay, so you weren't meeting your H's needs. What about his responsibility to meet yours? What about his responsibility to meet his own? We are all ultimately responsible for ourselves. If we find someone to complete us, we are lucky, but our happiness is our own responsibility.<P>The fact that the OW was so capable at meeting your H's needs points more to her evil, in my opinion. She exploited his vulnerabilities and used them to her advantage to tear your relationship apart- and that is to be applauded and admired? No, use that as leverage so that it doesn't happen to you again. <P>Your H's OW was not a day at the beach. She was a whore just like the rest of our OWs. It's nice that you can see your side in this and blame the H instead of this woman, but in my opinion, you are far too kind to her and far too hard on yourself. <P>Having said that, I must acknowledge that your point of view (focusing on what was missing) is great for healing purposes and letting go.

#868829 05/30/00 07:33 AM
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Sounds like you are the office and she is a vacation.<P>Get it?<P>The office is very necessary but the fun part is the vacation.<P>Give him what she is giving him and then she will have no advantage over you.<BR>

#868830 05/30/00 07:57 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by popeye:<BR><B>I'm looking at my H's behaviour and trying to figure out just what it is he wants in a woman.<P>1)...he needs someone to party with. (I socialize, but selectively...<BR>2)...it makes him feel like he has more of a connection with them or that he is smart in comparison?...<BR>3)...These OW can't take care of anything, but sex. I think it makes him feel powerful to be the one in control, yet he wants to be taken care of at the same time.<BR>...So, what is it he is looking for? He seems to want everything that I am not, yet dumps it when he has it. <BR>Anybody got any answers or feelings about what it is they are looking for? It baffles me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Seems like you have just filled out the emotional needs questionnaire for your H. He seems to be mostly after what you stand for (if your analysis is correct), but could it be that you have become too predictable/"dull" for him and that he needs more variation in his life?<P>Maybe you should look into the SBT methods described in "Divorce Busting" written by Michele Weiner-Davis? Methods like "DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT" and "DO A 180" could be worth a try.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.weiner-davis.com" TARGET=_blank>DB-site</A><P>scandinavian

#868831 05/30/00 08:16 AM
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Buffy, You are right. We all speak from our own personal viewpoints, or should I say painpoints. Given the hurt we feel and anger towards our WS, the OM/OW and even ourselves, it's hard to see ANY redeeming qualities in the OW/OM. However, our WS clearly see something we don't.<P>While I said having an affair does not make you a horrible person, what you (the OM/OW)do that follows discovery may. Harrasment, sabotage, or other actions taken against the betrayed spouse by the OM/OW are clearly acts of desperation to preserve the relationship. I have not had this happen to me so I can not relate to the additional pain Josey must be going through. (Sorry Josey) [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Several months ago, I was also filled with rage, grief, and frustration over my wife's affair. I hated the OM for his betrayal of me, and found myslef quite confused over my feelings for my wife. Did I want to stay married because I loved her or because I loved being married? Not sure! Did I want to call her a b!t@h and kick her butt out? Thought did cross my mind! Did I want to go over and punch out OM? You bet! (but didn't).<P>What has worked for me has been a renewed faith in God and the miracles (small at times) He can perform. One miracle He has performed is taking my hate and much of my pain away. I have been separated from my wife for nearly a month now and I am doing surprisingly well. Now, my wife no longer sees this pathetic, needy, angry, broken down, shell of a man. I am becoming more and more of what I was many years ago, and even better. As a result, she has been warming up quite a bit lately and I feel that our chance for recovery is growing. This is in spite of the fact that the OM lives right across the street.<P>Hopefully, one day He will ease all of your pain and you won't look at things so scornfully. Once you rid yourself of the anger, you can focus your energy on the important stuff.

#868832 05/30/00 08:25 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cuckold:<BR><B>Sounds like you are the office and she is a vacation....Get it?...The office is very necessary but the fun part is the vacation...<BR>Give him what she is giving him and then she will have no advantage over you.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The problem with a vacation is that there are mosquitos, missed connections, sun burns, and snotty concierges, but if the liquor is flowing enough and the laughs are plenty, you might overlook that stuff.<P>You also must come home from your vacation and deal with the work you left behind. Vacation is not real life.<P>Dealing with sick children, infirm parents, grocery shopping, paying bills, cleaning up after company over a long weekend, candle light dinners, Christmas, soccer practice, and sitting in the jaccuzi with a glass of wine after a hard day is real life. Being able to trust that the basic necessities in life are provided by someone else if you should need a break from life is the glue that keeps a family together. <P>You make it sound like I should apologize for being that. To imply that I should become a beer swilling, lap dancing, clingy, untrustworthy, insecure woman who chases married men is insulting. I don't want to provide the "fun" that she does, thank you very much. That level of self indulgence comes at too high a cost.<P>To say that he needs what I am not misses the point that he dumped what he thought he wanted...

#868833 05/30/00 11:11 PM
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My H got involved with a woman who is about 8 years older than he, already on her 2nd marriage, with two kids from her first mariage. I know that he enjoys going out with her.. that she enjoys happy hours and hanging out in bars. With her he has learned to roller blade and do other fun things that I am not too coordinated at doing.<P>We met in college, at that time, I enjoyed hanging out and drinking with friends.. but than I grew up and had a career (still enjoyed myself occasionally - but always preferred the smaller intimate group of friends as opposed to the crowded happy hour scene).. than after 7 years of marriage, paying off debts, we had kids.. blammo that is when he has affair. Now I know that men are especially vulnerable to affairs when they are about to become fathers.. as the stats show that. So why doesn't that register with him? he has convinced himself that he loves this other woman. She is his true love because otherwise how could he be so sleezy asto have an affair when his wife is pregnant.. that is his reasoning....<BR>So the bottom line is that she is like I was.. (also she is skinnier than I and I know that he thinks she has great legs). I grew up.. he and OW have apprently regressed.. and I am left being the only responsible adult in the room!!!

#868834 05/30/00 12:00 PM
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Popeye,<P>Your list of virtues that your attracted your husband could have been written by me. I read your other post and know its almost over and Im sorry. I also seem to be headed that way, it just too difficult and emotionally draining, especially since my husband has never been willing to work at any of our problems in the past and is showing that same pattern now.<P>I am reading a book about anger by les carter. My verbal displays of anger have damaged our marriage in a huge way. My H's anger has been much more subtle and just as deadly. H is passive aggressive, wont say much but holds all of it in, a pessimist ("she will never change" talking about me), a procratinator (Ill show her shes not important), etc...any way. The p/a man is often attracted to a strong woman but eventually resents her for different reasons...Just a thought, maybe your H is p/a too.<P>Another thought, my H has told me I dont "need" or "want" him. My strong personality, that attracted him to me, makes him feel insecure and unwanted...I dont know if your H has thought this too but just another thought.<P>Take care<BR>Kris

#868835 05/30/00 03:03 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sad In St Louis:<BR><B>Another thought, my H has told me I dont "need" or "want" him. My strong personality, that attracted him to me, makes him feel insecure and unwanted...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Aye, and that's the paradox, isn't it? It seems it is often the things that attract can also repel. My H is also passive aggressive and a conflict avoider. He is a very strong, manly man who needs to run with the boys, needs his independence, and exert his testosterone. He does what he does well, but he can't manage money, wash a dish, or schedule regular maintenance on cars or household things. Only a together woman with a great deal of security and independence can tolerate such a man, but that same independence makes him feel unneeded. Combine that with his inability to articulate his needs and feelings and there is a recipe for disaster. <P>I have spoken to one of the OW and she definitely was SOOO impressed with his physique and manly exploits. She thinks he is just the hunkiest guy, but she doesn't have the intellect to relate to his monetary plans, can't relate to his spirituality, and can't tolerate his need for space. Their connection was very superficial. She coo'ed all over his "heroic" deeds, but do you think they've ever spoken of God or the afterlife? (ha!)My H has intellectual needs too, and you can't have a conversation in a vaccuum! <P>I understand the concept of meeting each other's emotional needs and how that feeds the "in love" feeling, but it seems to put the blame and the responsibility for fixing the marriage on the betrayed. I have a problem with that. Yes, that is a way of making the relationship more healthy and it shares the responsibility for the success or failure of the relationship, but it also gives the betrayer a way out. <P>As I see it, there is no getting around the fact that we are all responsible for meeting our own needs. The only way to happiness is through ourselves. There are too many people with histories of homelessness, abuse, addiction, financial difficulties, lack of education, lack of opportunity, and handicaps out there who are happy and productive people to convince me that outside forces or another person is responsible for how we feel or how we act. If people in those types of situations can find the rainbow after the storm, everyone else can too. Saying, "My needs weren't met" sounds like such an immature cop out! Sure it influences our feelings and our behaviour, but to what extent? Where is the personal responsibility?<P>It's all so pathetic and so preventable. The answer isn't in who WE are or who the OWs are. It lies within. My H can LEARN to be a better communicator. He can learn to appreciate the joys in life and minimize the sadness so that he can be happy. He can learn to confront conflict in non-threatening ways, but he won't. And that is the saddest part of it all.<P>It really doesn't matter what side of the infidelity equation you are on, if you take responsibility for what you've done and make a better you from it, you've succeeded! As long as blame is still being tossed around and someone is passing responsibility for their happiness to someone else, there are bound to be unfulfilled people out there.<P>My H has lived a pretty selfish life. Everything we've done has been in pursuit of his desires. The vacations we've taken are to places he wants to go. The ventures we've embarked on have been his calls. He had all that power and he never used it to create the dream marriage he wanted. I simply adored him. I would have gone to the edges of the earth for him had I only known he wanted me to. I see this over and over in so many of our posts. How do they miss this?<P>I think it's about the whole "how to be happy with what you have" concept. He was always looking over the fence to see what he was missing, so he could never enjoy what we had. That was nice when it was a motivating factor to help him achieve his dreams, but not nice when it lead him away from his marriage. The grass isn't always greener.

#868836 05/30/00 03:12 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My H has lived a pretty selfish life. Everything we've done has been in pursuit of his desires.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This says an awful lot about why he can't stay faithful, don't you think? Sounds like a basic flaw in his thinking...everything is about what he wants at the moment...<p>[This message has been edited by kam6318 (edited May 30, 2000).]

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