removed<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited June 05, 2000).]

oops-wrong place?!<p>[This message has been edited by cl (edited June 03, 2000).]

I know you think that it is always the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000008.html" TARGET=_blank>FS</A> that is putting out...<P>...and in most cases it's true...<P>...but sometimes it is the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000008.html" TARGET=_blank>WS</A> that comes back... and has to put up with the exact same attitude (from the "supposed" <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000008.html" TARGET=_blank>FS</A>.)<P>I happen to be the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000008.html" TARGET=_blank>FS</A> and like you...<BR>...and that's just the way it is...<P>As someone told me today...<BR>...life's not fair!<P>Plug away... <P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited June 03, 2000).]

removed<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited June 05, 2000).]

yuki,<P>Honey, the reason we work so hard is because we want to be able to have a better marriage, and we want our spouses to stay with us. It may not make much sense to you, it didn't make much sense to me either. And frankly I stink at plan A. But if I hadn't learned to bite my tongue every now and then who knows where my h would be tonight.<P>It's not easy, my h has cheated more than once and even left me for ow # 1 for 1 1/2 years. Then when we got back together he cheated again 12 years later. That was almost 2 years ago. <P>It hurt (still does, just not as often) but look at it like this, when you have plan A'ed all you can, for as long as you can , then you can honestly say you did everything in your power to make the marriage work.<P> <P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>Hepatitis C, educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://hepatitis-central.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://hepatitis-central.com/</A>

removed<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited June 05, 2000).]

<B>yuki miaka</B>,<P>I'd be lying to you if I were to say that I am never mad...<BR>...of course there are many times I get angry and frustrated...<P>...but part of the growth process is learning how to both "forgive" and redirect that "anger"...<BR><A HREF="http://www.anger-stress-marriage.com" TARGET=_blank>Anger & Stress Management Communication Skills for Marriages and Relationships in Conflict</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/forumlinks4.html" TARGET=_blank>Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself</A><BR><A HREF="http://forgivenessweb.com" TARGET=_blank>The Forgiveness Web</A><P>and some books...<BR><OL TYPE=1><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0806509376" TARGET=_blank><B>Anger : How to Live With and Without It</B></A> by Albert Ellis <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1879237970" TARGET=_blank><B>Angry All the Time :</B> An Emergency Guide to Anger Control</A> by Ron Potter-Efron, Ronald T. Potter-Efron <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0800786467" TARGET=_blank><B>Getting the Best of Your Anger</B></A> by Les Carter <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/034541344X" TARGET=_blank><B>The Art of Forgiving :</B> When You Need to Forgive and Don't Know How</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060674318" TARGET=_blank><B>Forgive and Forget </B>: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785282556" TARGET=_blank><B>The Choosing to Forgive Workbook</B></A> by Les Carter, Frank Minirth <BR></OL><P>Getting into these sites...<BR>Reading books... (Harley books as well)<BR>Isn't a waste of time...<BR>...maybe someday... he too will read the sites/books!<P>To be honest...<BR>...what has helped me the most is a rediscovery of "faith"...<BR>...difficult to get back into that if you've been away... or many haven't had a grounding in one.<BR>...but is doable! <P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited June 03, 2000).]

Yuki, what I've learned from hanging out here is that you have <BR>to ask yourself some questions and give yourself honest answers: <P>I'll get you started:<P>1) Do you still love him? Could you give this <BR>man another chance?<P>2) Would it make you feel better in the long run to know that <BR>at the very least you gave it your best shot to try and save <BR>this marriage?<P>3) Are you willing to stick with it for the long haul?<P>There are many more, and some of the veterans here can help you <BR>out along the way. But you need to take a peek around the anger <BR>(believe it or not, it is temporary) and evaluate the situation.<P>Keep posting; you'll get answers. I've been here for less than <BR>two months and feel a h*ll of a lot better about a majority of <BR>things....<P>Good luck!<P>theo

(see...Jim had already posted as I was writing my response...you're in good hands, Yuki...)<P> <P>

removed<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited June 05, 2000).]

removed<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited June 05, 2000).]

<B>yuki miaka</B>...<P>When theo said "Keep posting; you'll get answers..."<BR>...I hope you didn't infer that you will get those "answers" from the forum members...<BR>...you won't! <P>What you'll get is ideas... suggestions... analogies... and support...<BR>...<B>all</B> answers will have to be yours!<BR>...a hard lessen to learn in a young life...<BR>...but one that can't be avoided.<P>---------------------------------------------<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...I don't have an <I>anger</I> problem, my H does... ...Forgive me if I seem <I>extremely angry</I>... ...being sarcastic when I'm <I>mad</I>...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...give yourself something to think about...<BR>...Is there any counseling available to you?<P>'...can I "smile"?...'...<BR>...what will happen... if you do?...<BR>...what will happen... if you don't?...<P>...yes... the answers need to be yours. <P>Jim

removed<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited June 05, 2000).]

Yuki Miaki,<P>No it isn't fair, but when a marriage is in trouble there is usually two people responsible for the state that the marriage is in. The WS often feels neglegted in one or more areas that often leads them to think that the marriage is a hopeless cause, and they turn to others to fill these needs. Then to add to the stress of the marriage, it now also have infidelity to cope with.<BR>Having an affair isn't a nice thing to do to anybody (to say the least), however, it's often the solution that seems attractive to the WS, and they blind themselves to the immorality of it and justifies it to themselves in various ways, often by exaggerating the faults in the marriage and especially the faults committed by the FS (remember that none is without blame or your marriage would be a happy one).<P>Now with that in mind, if you start <B>Love Busting</B> all over the place, give in to your anger at being deceived, lied to, cheated and treated as sh*t, and following your instincts of wanting to get revenge for all the hurt the WS have caused you, you will only push the WS even further away from you and into the arms of the OP, by validating all the complaints that the WS spouse have about your role in the demise of the marriage.<BR>If however, you follow <B>Plan A</B>, you will not only invalidate the complaints, but you will also show yourself as an attractive alternative to the OP, and thus often start bringing your marriage back again, as the fantasy with the OP crashes. And best of all, it will also make you think more deeply about how you contributed to the state of the marriage, and give you a tool to change yourself so that the marriage a WS will return to will be a better one, and not one where the WS would run away again.<BR>Plan A, is not easy and as somebody said it is not for wimps! It's a 24/7 thing, and it takes a strong character, sacrifice and biting your anger and frustration, however, it gets easier with time, and soon it will feel natural.<P>Of cause this doesn't mean that the WS gets completely off the hook, and can relax in the knowledge that the FS will do all the work to make the marriage better, au contraire! But the first priority is to get the OP out of the picture and the spouses living together again. After that has been achieved comes the often long process of recovery, that will take introspection from both spouses to each acknowledge their past faults and errors, and making a plan for their future marriage, often with the help of counselling. This process is often long and hard, and compared to a rollercoaster ride with ups and downs... and often takes a long time sometimes years, however, the results when it succeede is tremendous (look in the Recovery section for success stories and you will be amazed what can be achieved).<P>Hopes & Prayers to you and your family, Sadman<p>[This message has been edited by SadMan (edited June 04, 2000).]

never again

{{{{{{{{{Yuki}}}}}}}}}...<P>You most likely won't get this...<BR>...and that's OK.<P>So many people here on your last few posts were trying so hard to witness to you...<P>You can be like the rich man who asked Christ... "what must I do to inherit the kingdom"...<BR>...when Christ's response was just a little too hard to take... the rich man walked away sad.<P>Maybe that's why we shouldn't look for the 'riches'... we think will make us happy here...<P>Yes... you can leave...<BR>...but you know something...<BR>...we'll still love you...<P>...because you know... that's what God wants...<P>May peace touch your heart...<BR>And His words touch your mind...<BR>And His spirit fill your soul.<P> <P>Jim

removed<p>[This message has been edited by yuki miaka (edited June 05, 2000).]

Yuki,<P>You amaze me! I haven't posted to you because I didn't think I had the advice that you needed and you would just shoot it down anyway.<P>But what really gets me is, you have just been rude to, who I think, is the most kind and caring man here. He is going thru his own nightmare and takes so much time trying to welcome all of the new people. Plus he is always around for words of encouragement for EVERYONE!<P>As for you being ignored...not everyone gets a bunch of replies to everything they post. Myself, sometimes I only get 1 or 2 replies to things I post and I've been here almost 6 months. Do I take it as being ignored? NO. I understand that so many here are in there own pain and can't think straight somedays. <P>Yes, you are immature but stop blaming it on your age. You're 21, right? Well, at your age, I was the mother of a son and had been married for a year. Plus I had been getting my a** kicked for a year by my abusive husband. Did I sit around whining about it? NO. I made the best of a bad situation. I took care of my son. When you're a wife and mother, the childish games stop. You made the choice to be in an adult relationship, now act like one!!<P>Mitzi

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