I feel so hurt and neglected with my H comings and goings. I know that I have probably helped to keep this happening with my angry outbursts and crying etc but when all that energy gets pent up inside and I feel like I am going to burst it all comes out. I have been down the road of not wanting to be around if you know what I mean and I think my H was hurt by what I did. I realize it was wrong but I felt so alone and not worth being around seeing he had found someone so disgusting and cruel to replace me a wife that did everything for him for 12 years. <P>As I sit here wondering what action to take next while my H is at work I am thinking of writing a plan B letter. I asked him to leave seeing he was still seeing the OW and spending more and more nights away from home which is the most hurtful and cruel thing to do (I think it would be easier to accept him leaving totally). <P>He has refused to fill out paperwork (net worth statement) to have divorce proceed he feels WE can sit down and talk about it and decide. How could he expect me to do that seeing what is happening and he continues to see the OW. CRAZY is the only way to describe his behavior although he is very good at turning the tables around so I feel like I am to blame for not loving him enough and being there for him and that marriage has been bad for years. Well then get out of it rather than continue on the way it is if he is so UNHAPPY.<P>I told him he could have his divorce in two months and then be free to marry the OW or flaunt her in public if he hasn't already done that and be on with his life. He is keeping me in limbo and I can't even think about trying to move on because he keeps me on the emotional roller coaster one minute home and talking about the future the next minute out night after night with the OW. <P>Should I write a letter and leave it for him. I am sure the OW would welcome him with open arms to live with her. They spend at least half of the seven days in a week together anyway. It would save him a lot of gas money running back and forth and he could see just what she is like 24/7. <P>I am so tired of being blamed, used, mentally abused and ridiculed by this man I just want it over and he can't even have the decency to leave.

No BC -<P>No Plan B letter....he has seen NOTHING consistant from you that would allow a Plan B to do any good....don't bother. If you want to run....then run, but don't call it Plan B!!!<P>You are either going to do this or you are not.....it's that simple!!!<P>You started in the right direction this week and were lucky to have seen some quick (although subtle) changes in H -<BR>You threw that away!!!!<P>WHY?<P>He told you that you weren't there for him for years.....is he right? Isn't it what you are doing now? Not being there for him?<P>You said you know you hurt him? Is that what this is about? Just hurting him cuz he hurt you?<P>Your actions and thinking are in a very big "taker" mode.......you are being as selfish as he is!!!! <P>Where is the love and compassion for your partner? <P>Sometimes we have to be able to hold up the fort when they falter.....are you unable to do that? If so, why?<P>Perhaps you need to read this book called Life Strategies by Dr. Phil McGraw.....it will help you to analize your own motivations and keep your feet on the ground about what role you did and can play in making life better for you (and eventually your marriage!!)<P>I highly recommend it!!!!<P>BC, I know all the hurt and pain....I lived the same for years, so you are not telling me anything new. YOU HAVE to rise above it!!!!<P>He isn't doing it TO YOU.....IT IS NOT all about YOU and you are being arrogant if you keep thinking so. He is hurting and scared and wanting you to be there for him.....<P>You are choosing not to be......<P>Again, either you want to go forward with your growth as a person and a partner or you will run and wallow in poor me the rest of your life.....the choice is yours!!!<P>If this is a slip, then give yourself a slap in the head and decide to not do it again!!!!<P>You were making progress - for yourself and for H.....now that is ruined cuz you had a "taker" moment.....<P>Does your "taker" feel any better after it? I don't think so, so what good did it do?<P>You have to stop it BC......<P>I know that you feel low and angry and hurt.....you are the only one who can change that!!!<P>Do you want to?<P>BIG HUGS - we love you and believe in you.....start believing in yourself and your ability to change things around!!!<P>Sheba<P>

So if I was making progress then why does he tell me it is over and has been for years. If he truly wants out how can I change that I can't. I told him I was doing good that I wanted to show him the affection that he thought I never did. The problem with being there for him is that I was in the past and he just kept staying out drinking more and I resented him more because of it. I realize my faults and I am trying to change that but he won't let me. How can I be affectionate when he won't let me touch him only by saying I love him. How can we do things together when he doens't want to be with me. I tried going to the races because that is being there for him and doing things he enjoys and I too but then the OW is there just mocking me and my marriage.<P>I don't want to run but how much do I have to swallow and put up with when he tells me it is over has been for years doesn't want to try he says he has tried for too long. I am not that bad of a wife I have at least admitted my shortcomings and have tried to change all he has done is run away from the problems and found someone who feeds his ego and he allows her to love him. <P>Maybe it is ALL me. I guess I have to ask myself if this is the person I truly want to be with anymore. He isn't the person I married and we all change but he won't even admit he has done anything wrong only that these things happen. WEll he had a big part in making it happen and he continues to allow it to happen.

C'mn BC, you should know by now that I won't feed into the "maybe it is ALL me" or "doormat", or "enabling" garbage!!!<P>It takes two people to have a relationship....each person can choose to react to the other or to stand on their own legs and ACT the way they should for how they want to be and who they want to be.<P>If he wanted out so badly....he wuld be gone!!!<P>He doesn't really want that...he just is not happy with the way things were and are between the two of you!!!<P>He didn't know what to do about it and that is how he ended up in the drinking/OW mess!!!! Until he can see a light at the end of his dark tunnel of fear and unhappiness....he is stuck!!!<P>YOU on the other hand, are in the light of day!!! YOU can be the light at the end of his tunnel by changing your own reactions and habits. YOU can help in his wanting to pull himself out!!!<P>YOU CANNOT make him by threatening or demanding.......How is that possibly something that would allow him to realize what he is throwing away? That part of you is what he is afraid of and unhappy with.....<P>If he sees the woman who can believe in him, love him and help him when he decides he wants it....he would be more likely to hurry that up!!!<P>You are not enabling or putting up with anything......stop thinking that way!!!<P>He is responsible for his actions and YOU are responsible for yours!!! He is at fault for his choices (drinking OW, not communicating his unhappiness effectively, etc) and YOu are at fault for yours (reacting negatively, not really listening if he communicated, not improving yourself, etc.).<P>He is not responsible for your emotions and you are not responsible for his. What you both need to do is to start caring about each other instead of just your own feelings.<P>You have to begin that first because your mind is not soaked in alcohol!!!!<P>So, what do you want to do? Keep playing some self-righteous blame game or do you want to start pulling yourself up out of this mess?<P>Think about it.....<P>You went from being considerate enough to ask us the best response when he says he needs to stop drinking ...to throwing a temper tantrum......<P>Those two are so completely different emotions, aren't they? <P>This part of it IS your responsibility!!<BR>Gotta get your emotions steady!!! That happens by the slow positive changes you began this week......<P>Get back to them......<P>I have to agree with whoever it was (Guilty - I think! sorry...) that involving your mother was not the best idea.......<P>Wouldn't that damage H more? You know it would.....is that why you did it?<BR>OR did your own "need" take the driver's seat? What you do can hurt or help the situation....you need to think before you say or do.<P>I know that you can do this if you want to......<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba and others,<P>I called my mother because I felt suicidal again. This is the reason I needed to talk to someone and yes maybe she wasn't the one to call but I didn't want to end up where I have been before. Maybe my H didn't see it that way but I NEEDED the support then and there and she was just a phone call away. Maybe I should have called the crisis center where I am being counseled but I wasn't thinking about what I should do only about what I wanted to do. I wanted to go away and never come back to my life as it is right now.<P>I am sorry for coming apart at the seams I am mad at myself for doing it maybe I am Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde I don't know. <P>I have always been there for him. When he got in trouble for drinking and driving I was there for him even though it was a very tough time. I supported him and helped him legally, financially and emotionally. At that point he quit drinking and vowed never to end up in that situation again. But here we are and he has gone back to his old ways and habits. It started gradually with him drinking after work. Yes I resented that and I got mad of all the nights I ate alone. We never did anything together he did his stuff alone. So if I retracted yes it was my fault but I still cared. <P>They say people are to learn from their mistakes and I am trying to do that now at least I admit what I may have done wrong or he persieved what I did wrong but he doesn't even want to work on things. All the books I have read say that marriages change over time and the honeymoon does fade. He takes this to mean I have changed and he doesn't like me now that I don't want to sit in a bar till 2am everyweek and that I want to go out for dinner once in awhile.<P>He is home now and I asked him to just place himself in my shoes for a minute to try and understand why I lost my temper and emotions etc. Maybe that was another LB but I had to say something. He did bring me strawberries. I thanked him.<P>He also seems like he is trying to push me into doing things. Like my parents went to the lake today and he asked me why I didn't go with them. Maybe I didn't want too. It is also 90 degrees and I burn like crazy. Maybe I was wallowing in self pity. He wants me to do all of these things by myself while he is doing his thing.

Ihave agree with Sheba here..Thanks Sheba for those words of encouragement we so desperately need.<BR>Hello bc ..Wake up..This is affair mode..Which means H's HAVE TO BE: Horrid,cold,uncaring,unloving,cruel,confused,unpredictable..etc etc and all the rest of the behaviours and emotions your H and mine and alot of ours here are going through.<BR>So,while he is going through his tunnel of hell,Take adeep deep breath,and focus on your Long term goal..As Sheba said RISE above the madness,and PROVIDE your H with the stability and solidness he so desperately needs now.Think of it as an exercise in SELFLESSNESS..yes it is unfair,hurtful,,etc and I too spend lonely nights crying and twisting in my bed knowing he is with her at that very moment..I shall endure more next week as H shall go to her again and again and again..I brace myself for the forthcoming agony,,but I am empowered here.And I strongly believe my H shall give her up and realise his mistake,But he will do it on his own terms and not mine,and no matter how much I cry,plead,threat,It wont speed it up<P>You are not alone bc...Cry , shout here and keep loving and smiling to your H<BR>Good luck

Thanks for the reinforcement Nabilqad!<P>Well, BC this is good.....keep telling the story of Mr and MRs.....instead of the H/OW things that we already know!!!<BR>That helps us to help you.....<P>I am glad that you called someone if you felt that you were in a dangerous frame of mind. That is always the best action if you truly need it!!!<P>We need to talk about why you felt that way though....<P>What caused your change from a stronger person a couple of days ago to being so distraught that you felt so bad? Why did you approach H with a conversation when things were improving by your just doing the little things? <P>Why did you put yourself through that?<P>You really have to look at the answers to my questions, BC.<P>Seems that you are still stuck in your wants and needs and do not yet understand that H doesn't see them and doesn't care about them....<P>Not cause he is mean, but because he is messed up with his own stuff!!!<P>You have to find a way to handle your own wants and needs yourself.....stop looking to H for their fulfillment!!<P>You also have to start showing that you are capable of putting them aside enough to be able to care about his!!!!<P>Why do you ask him to put himself in your shoes? What do you expect him to say or do? He is a man in crisis with himself and you expect him to comfort you? Does that make sense? Especially when you can't comfort him in his dire need of it.....<P>Do you care that he is on the brink of self destruction? Are you only concerned with how it effects you? Do you ever think of how you can help the man you love get well? Do you just look at what it does to you and your existance?<P>You need to really look at what you want and what you are doing, BC.....<P>I am glad to hear that you have been there for him....perhaps he feels that you haven't been there in the way HE NEEDS for you to be!!! There is a big difference sometimes between what we think is being there and what they think is being there.....<P>What counts right now is what HE THINKS your being there is......<P>It is good that you admit that you have made mistakes - we all do!!!! It does not stop there though!! It is what we do about them to change our way of thinking so that we don't repeat them that we have to work on.<P>Caring is a great thing....but if you act like you don't care about him then how does he know that you care? And yes, making it all about you and your feelings is acting like you don't care!!<P>He just "sees and hears" what a terrible person he is...how bad he is...what a martyr you are......"<P>How does that help him? Telling him to go to her....is that reinforcing that you love him? That you want him? That you are willing to work on things?<P>You don't have to wait for him to work on anything.....it is a fact that when one person makes changes - the other person makes them also!!! The whole dynamic of the relationship changes....they have no choice.<P>You don't HAVE to say anything...that is not an excuse to LB...... YOU WANT to get your feelings out....you WANT your needs known....big difference!!!!<P>That is all well and good, when someone is capable of a normal mind....but BC, your H is far from having a normal mind right now......<P>About his asking you about the lake...<P>Maybe he wanted you to have a good day cuz last night was so bad....<P>Maybe he was feeling bad about his going out and your being home alone......<P>Maybe he didn't want to face you when he got home.....<P>Who knows what he was thinking....so why do you assume that he was pushing you into doing something? That's a tad defensive isn't it?<P>Instead of making him fit into your shoes.....how about fitting into his? I know that it isn't fair, etc....but it is all a part of truly caring about someone.........<P>You aren't as messed up and ill as he is, not that that is an excuse for his behavior - it is an explanation!!! What is your reasoning for being demanding about your wants?<P>I learned something a long time ago, it is harsh to hear - but very true for us in this situation.....<P>"Too bad if you have wants and needs when noone is capable of fulfilling them.....Time to start filling them for yourself so life can be as happy as possible - otherwise, Tough Luck!!!"<P>Along the way, we need to give our spouses the fulfillment we so desparately want.....perhaps they will catch on when they are strong enough!!!<P>You can do this BC, you just need to redirect your thoughts to helping instead of expecting.....<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>

Sheba,<P>Thanks for the insight. I don't know why I felt so weak last night maybe because my H hasn't really paid any attention to me in months. I know I can't and shouldn't expect that need to be met, but I had been trying all week long to be a loving and caring person. I approached my H because of the letter from his lawyer and him not giving any response. I probably shouldn't have said a thing. I am looking for that roll of duct tape.<P>I told him that I was here for him and that I loved him and wanted to work on our marriage. I said I was trying to understand what made him make some of the choices he has made in the past months. I said that many people make mistakes and the important thing is we learn from them and go on. I apologized for the outburst and crying last night and he said he understood why I did it that I get everything all locked up inside.<P>I want to comfort him but how? He doesn't want me to touch him so what can I say or do? Maybe asking him to be in my shoes wasn't a great idea but I thought he would see what I do but that isn't going to happen either.<P>I said I felt like people were ridiculing me and that is why I couldn't go to the races where I did want to be to watch him and support him. He said that no one is ridiculing me and he would kick any bodys a** that did. He said it was him who has been so mean and a jerk. <P>So I guess I should just not say anything that has to do with the OW even though I could strangle her right now. And probably only talk about small things how his day at work was, the weather etc.<P>So when he doesn't come home tonight and when he finally comes home tomorrow I should just act as though it doesn't matter and just say hello glad that you are home??????<P>How do you care and show that you love someone when they are so distant?<P>I am totally lost. If I go out and do my own things I am afraid he will think I don't care about him and his needs.

Hi BC -<P>Now we are getting somewhere!!! YAY!!<BR>You made me laugh with the duct tape..<BR>experience showed me that a roll is not enough...invest in a case at a time!! LOL!!!<P>You asked some very good and pertinent questions....<P>Let's see what we can do with them.<P>First, you have to recognize that there are two different avenues you have to maneuver on.....<P>One is the emotional - this is where you need to gain an understanding of what you are dealing with, process your own emotions and show compassion for his emotional torment. It's all about perspective!!!<P>It also includes: no expecting your own needs to be filled for now...not until your H feels safe enough to do so.<BR>In other words......you are on your own and must stand on your two feet!!!<P>No clinging, whining, wishing, losing it, etc. Be happy that you are breathing!!!! Everything else will come in time........<P>The second is the physical day-to-day interaction with H.....<P>You already began with the transferring of his stuff to the spare room - good start and serves two purposes: 1) it gives you some strength to allow the needed "detaching" that you must have in order to get strong and deal with this.<BR>2) It also shows H that all is not continuing to be the "old" way of living.<P>Conversation....this can be tricky but once you know what would effect your H for the better, you stick to that kind of communication.<P>When you push, he retreats.....so, that isn't the way to do it.<P>When you are cordial, he maintains a halfway decent attitude...this is OK - not great, but OK......<P>If you were to pick up your emotions enough to where you exude a pleasant and positive attitude, you could talk about a lot of things with him probably having positive reactions just because of the energy you are exuding.<P>You said that you told him you were there for him, loved him and wanted to work on the marriage.....OK, now he knows "the talk" of it, but you need to back it up with your actions and kindness!!!! It is not enough to just say it and then act like he has the plague!!!! Sorta mixed messages with that!!!! You see what I mean?<P>So, what to do to show him? Well, first off you have to get yourself looking physically happy and positive - nobody is drawn to a gloomy-gus.<P>If you never smile....start smiling.<BR>If you mope around....start being more active around the house.<BR>If you only speak of the problems or issues like his drinking, going out or money ..... stop and start talking about what you saw today that reminded you of the time that you both...(blah, blah!!).<P>Get what I mean? Change to positives!!!<P>Show some belief in yourself, him and that everything can be allright if changes are made.<P>You cannot be needy or clingy....that is a big no-no!!!!! You must be the one that he can turn to because he feels needy and/or clingy!!!!<P>You can't look at this as an act either!! It must be genuine....that is why it is so important for you to work on your way of thinking......<P>You want to behave in a way that you really want to be for the rest of your life!!! You don't want to be angry or feeling low for life do you? Then don't behave like you do!!!! Start changing it!!! Believe that there is hope for you both and you will send off vibes showing him that there is also!!!!<P>As far as touching him....well, that is intimacy which you both are lacking right now. That will take some time to get to. What will help get there is his being able to trust you....to know that you love him and seeing that you are being understanding and doing things to want to change the problems.<P>Perhaps if a situation like the one from the other day comes up again (his saying he should stop drinking) you can lovingly touch his arm or face, look into his eyes with all the concern you can muster and tell him the response that was recommended (sorry, forgot what it was exactly, but it was good!!).<P>That would begin the "touching".. ..remember that this is a lot of baby steps!!! <P>As the days progress and your changes bring about small changes in him....you take another step. Like maybe a kiss on the cheek when you leave or get back from Alanon....or before bed....or just because!!!! Nothing heavy, just a little sign of affection. Don't expect a response.....<P>It doesn't matter how distant he seems. He is afraid and is being cautious.. ..you have to show him that DESPITE his behavior you are there and love him.. ..always, no matter what you will not abandon him. This is becoming safe for him.....and what will eventually get him to want to help himself.<P>You can't control what he does or thinks, only what you do. <P>For the times when he stays out....go with the flow. Say hello, add that you are glad he is home safe and sound. Before you leave for work or meetings or to go for a walk, tell him you hope to see him later. <P>When he is around, talk pleasantly and interestingly....about whatever you think he would like. Ask him to go for a walk with you if you are both home and not really feeling "together" but rather a little uncomfortable. Walk to or by something that would cause a good conversation....the park, a video store (and maybe rent one to watch together) - things like that.....<P>If he declines - that's OK....you go!!!<BR>Bring back a movie or a pizza or ice-cream or whatever for you both.<P>Be productive with your time....how about doing the deck you said you wanted done.....perhaps he will jump in. If he doesn't then it's done!!! So, nothing lost there!!!!<P>You don't need to "go out and do your own thing" in a derogatory of "I'll show him" kind of way....that's just silly!!<P>If there is something you want to do, ask him to share and if he says no, then continue with your plan of doing it.<P>No "attitudes" need to be present during any of this!!!!<P>Remember when you were dating? Did you act mean or inconsiderate or demanding? Probably not...so don't do that now either!!!!<P>Let him remember what it used to be like and how it could be again......<P>You can do this BC.....<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

Sheba,<P>Thanks for all the insight. I will try to proceed with changing my attitude and other things that you suggested. My H has said in the past that I have been very negative about a lot of things like thinking I should have a better job, or that I haven't succeded in life, etc. Maybe I am tough on myself because I do want the most I can get in life. He takes it as me being negative and I think of it as striving for a goal.<P>He always says that I never ask how his day has been so maybe I can start there. He is also worried about me eating the way I should. Now that is a bit tougher seeing with everything that is going on I don't feel like eating many times or I eat junk food.<P>I did ask him before he left if I would see him later. Maybe not a good idea but I said I hoped he would be coming home. He said maybe. That was very hard for me to hear. Like he didn't want to come home. I just said remember no matter what happens "I still love you" and I want to be with you.(meaning I did want to be at the races but felt awkward going because of the OW). He said he understood me feeling awkward and that he admitted it was his fault for the way the situation is.<P>Alanon is Monday night again. I don't know what he thinks about me going but I haven't said anything I just go and then come home. A lot of the time he isn't home from work when I leave. <P>He did give me money for bills before he left. I said that I had made a list of what was due. I tried to ask once and then leave it alone so it isn't like I NEED the money nagging like. <P>The nights alone are the worst. I realize that maybe he isn't staying with the OW but don't really know for sure and I guess it really doesn't matter if he is or not. I did tell him that by me not saying anything to her or confronting her about everything anytime I have seen them in public must tell him a lot about me that I am a good person and even though what she has done is wrong I haven't caused a scene. I said that this shows him that I do care and I am trying to be understanding. He agreed and said me confronting her wouldn't help matters anyway. Don't want to touch that one with a ten foot pole and I didn't.<P>When he left I said be careful, good luck and I love you and I wish I was there.

You did great, BC.....<P>I am so proud of you...and to think you were so distraught with those horrible thoughts last nite!!! Just look at what changing your thinking can do!!! What a wonderful turnaround!!!<P>ATTAGIRL!!!!<P>I am so happy that you were able to take something I mentioned and apply it to what you can do for yourself!! That makes this nightmare bearable to me...to be able to help someone else through this.<P>You will be fine, BC....just have to stay the course for the possitive.<P>Having goals is fantastic. The trick is to enjoy what you have at the same time!!! You are always better off than a lot of poor souls out in the world. We should always try to remember that!!<BR>It helps us to be thankful for what we have.<P>As far as your interactions with H, you did good. He knows how you feel about the races and has acknowledged his part in it....now drop it!!! Give him the space and time to think about it and figure out what to do about it.<P>It is out of your hands......<P>Let him lead the way with it. Don't bng it up again, OK?<P>You accomplished some Understanding tonight....both for yourself and possibly for H.... VERY productive day, I would say!!! Pat yourself on the back.<P>Little bit more for right now - he is off to the races....he may or may not come home. You know this and therefore it should not be hard for you...it is nothing new!!! Do not dwell on it.<P>You made some great steps - give them time to sink into his brain. Allow yourself a wonderful night's sleep because you have done a good job today!!<P>Don't let what he does take that away!!!<P>Things will get better....Patience!!!<P>BIG HUGS and sweet dreams!!!!<P>Sheba

Sheba,<P>Thanks sooooooooooo much. I feel better now.<P>The duct tape thing my H has an abundance for the race car so the supply is always here.<P>I am not sure where you get all the wisdom but thank you.