I have been a married Christian man for many years. Several months ago, my wife confessed to me that she had a long-term affair during our marriage. It had been over for a while, and I never suspected. She confessed because she couldn’t live with the guilt.<P>As a Christian, I know that I have to forgive her for her sin. And I have, in the sense that I know all of us sin and that we all need Christ’s forgiveness. But I haven’t been able to forgive her on a marital level... a husband forgiving a wife for breaking her most sacred vow.<P>This is the first time that I haven’t been able to forgive someone for hurting me. I’ve tried everything, including going to a Christian counselor, and taking antidepressants. But I just can’t get over the enormity of what she did. I feel like it irreparably shattered our relationship.<P>The best way I can describe it is a vase that has been dropped and shattered into pieces. You can glue it back together, and it may have the same shape that it did before, but if you look closely, it will always be cracked, and held together with glue. That’s how my marriage feels now, like I’m holding it together with glue.<P>Many years ago, my wife had been unfaithful one time. I forgave her and she swore it would never happen again. I believed her and trusted anew. This time, I can’t. <P>I do think she has really changed inside, and that she will be faithful from now on. But the damage has been done, and can’t be undone, even by God. I haven’t told anyone about it, because I really want to work it through myself, before making choices that have irreparable consequences. <P>I feel like my marriage has been a failure. Nothing I do can change that. If I get divorced, I could start over and have a chance for a successful marriage with someone else.<P>What should I do?<BR>

I can't reply at length right at this moment but wanted to let you know that I am walking in your shoes at this very moment and as soon as I am able I will reply at length. <P>Just didn't want you to feel no one was out here! I know how it feels to wait in pain...hope to get back with you soon. <P>I just posted a new topic myself. It might give you an idea of my own situation in the meantime.<P>In short, to answer your question, don't give up.

Welcome <B>Howtoforgive</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>...even about the name you've chosen...<BR>...<B>Howtoforgive</B>...<BR>...seems like you'd like to make your marriage work!<P>Forgiveness isn't easy to handle...<P>I have some ideas that might help...<BR>check out the web sites...<BR><A HREF="http://www.divorcebusting.com/forumlinks4.html" TARGET=_blank>Forgiveness is a Gift You Give Yourself</A><BR><A HREF="http://forgivenessweb.com" TARGET=_blank>The Forgiveness Web</A><P>and some books...<BR><OL TYPE=1><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/034541344X" TARGET=_blank><B>The Art of Forgiving :</B> When You Need to Forgive and Don't Know How</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060674318" TARGET=_blank><B>Forgive and Forget </B>: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve</A> by Lewis B. Smedes <BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785282556" TARGET=_blank><B>The Choosing to Forgive Workbook</B></A> by Les Carter, Frank Minirth <BR></OL><P>and a few posts on our recovery forum...<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/006615.html" TARGET=_blank>How to rebuild my spouse's trust?</A>…..redman…..8/23/1999<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/007102.html" TARGET=_blank>How do you deal with "TRIGGERS?"</A>…..NoTrust…..9/7/1999<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000076.html" TARGET=_blank>Can I forgive?????</A>…..indy032…..1/31/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000274.html" TARGET=_blank>Things my husband did to rebuild trust</A>…..HGBrawner…..3/17/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000293.html" TARGET=_blank>Making New Memories</A>…..HGBrawner…..3/25/2000<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000303.html" TARGET=_blank>When Triggers Stop Being Triggers</A>…..wasstubborn…..3/26/2000<P>...I understand your analogy about the vase...<BR>...reconsider it to be more like a broken leg... after it is "reset" it is stronger!<P>"I do think she(W) has really changed inside"...<BR>... only you can judge that...<BR>... if you have grown so far apart<BR>... and <B>you</B> have ... over a period of time... lost love so much<BR>... you can decide definatively!<P>If you don't want to build...<BR>...and your W doesn't want to build!<BR><B>It isn't going to happen</B>!<P>Your quote "...because I really want to work it through myself, before making choices that have irreparable consequences..."<BR>...seems to open up the possiblity that you could still reconcile.<P>Keep posting... asking... and reading...<P>Do follow through the links in my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>Welcome</A> post.<P>Prayers to you... <P> <P>Jim

Hi Howtoforgive -<P>Welcome to MB!!! I see NSR has come by with some great Forgiveness links for you....hope they help.<P>I also liked your vase analogy.....<P>I would use a "recycling" approach for the ending though.....<P>Take those pieces, grind them down and use them to reform a completely new, stronger vase!!!!<P>That is what a good rebuilding is...getting down to the nitty-gritty of what is needed in ourselves and our marriage....<P>I think that the most important issues to focus on are why your wife needed to do such a thing as have an affair. Do you and she know the reason? Have you both worked to eliminate the reason as best that you could?<P>Once the reason is eliminated, any similar actions will not reoccur in the future.<P>You didn't really say too much about why, so it's hard to really help you in your understanding of what she is going through and how to help. Is it a weakness of her own or is it a combination of unmet needs within the marriage? <P>Either way, I suppose, your best path to forgiveness is to participate in doing whatever you can towards the goal of a stronger, more aware bond between the two of you.<P>I know the devastation you must feel, I also know that our spouses are no better or worse than us, or anyone else for that matter!!! They have or had issues that they made bad choices about...<BR>All we can do if we TRULY love them is to help to pick them up, dust them off and grow and learn from those bad choices.<P>I hope this helps some.....I know that you can get through this!! It is a matter of correcting whatever problems led to the affair and showing the compassionate understanding that we all need from time to time.<P>BIG HUGS to you (and your wife!)<P>Sheba <BR>

Howtoforgive<P>I see you've received many replies already. I hope they are of value to you. (I'll be looking into some of those links myself!)<P>Being on the outside looking in on what you've written, having walked a mile in this direction myself (more than once) I see a lot of positive happening in your marriage.<P>She confessed on her own which is a great sign. You've begun to forgive her. You've gone to counseling. (Has she?) Once before you were able to forgive and rebuild trust. You believe she has indeed changed for the better and seem to have begun to rebuild trust already when you say that you feel she will be faithful this time.<P>These are all wonderful things going on here for you and she. Don't lose sight of that. <P>I feel you are going through the same point in time that I am at now...being overwhelmed by the reality of what she did, "he" in my case. I know all too well just what you are saying. I don't feel angry often anymore though I am not ready to forgive. <P>I don't know how long it has been since she told you, your day of "discovery", for me it has been nearly 4 months and I feel that only now is the full impact of what he did being felt.<P>Like you, this was not our first time with this sort of pain and betrayal. My spouse also betrayed me before and like yours, assured me it would never happen again. I, too, rebuilt my faith and trust in him only to lose it all again.<P>About your analogy, everyone else has commented on it so why not me too! ;-) You are right, your marriage is very much like a vase that has taken a fall and shattered. But you know what, you dont' glue it back together again. When it's that badly damaged, you can't use those pieces even if you want. What you have to do is get a new vase.<P>I'm not saying to leave your spouse. I'm saying, something in your marriage obviously didn't work. Find out what it was, get rid of that element in your lives.<P>Here's one thing I can say for sure. When my H betrayed me the first time, it was beyond my imagination and ability to comprehend. Like your vase, I was shattered. But we worked our way through it and it took time, about two years in fact. And what I had in the end was not a marriage that was glued back together but a completely different marriage. The same two people but on a completely different level now. It wasn't the same vase at all. It was a totally new vase. One that I liked much better as there was some similarity to the old vase but for the most part, is was different.<P>That's what you need. That's what I need again! My new vase has also fallen off the shelf but for very different reasons than before, reasons I won't bother you with at this point, but suffice it to say, it has shattered once again. Despite my horror, I will not try to glue it back together but again, throw out the pieces and look for a new vase to set out. (Perhaps cement this time!)<P>I don't know your wife's take on all of this but given her sense of guilt and the caution you are using to make a decision, it seems to me there is a "want" on both your parts to get things back on track between you. If I am right, then don't lose sight of that, even on your hardest days. But also, don't put them back on the same track. Get them on the right track and they won't come off again.<P>I'm not pleased with my counselor but she is right when she says I need to stay focused on the positive. For the very reason you have stated, what's done is done and not even God can change that. It's true. But with God's help, you can make something good from this devistation. Let it be an opportunity that presents positive change in your lives rather than an opportunity which robs you. <P>Just because it hurts so badly does not mean it always will. It won't. But we both have to give it time.<P>I wish I knew how long you've been going through this. On average, I've been told it takes about two years to recover and this is what I found to be true. I've actually been through this twice before. The second time was when he first met the woman with whom he ended up having an affair with. Little did I know it had turned into an EA. I only knew he took a liking to her, enough to tell me in a rather brutal way and it sent us right back to counseling. While we worked on our marrige, he was working on her and she on him. So I can understand your sense of total disbelief given the trust you invested and the way you've been betrayed once again. <P>But whether it is you or I who is hurting, the fact remains...a terrible thing has happened. And nothing in the world can change it. It seems to have taken so much from us already. And now we have to decide, right now, how much more do we let it take?<P>This OW nearly took my H from me. She nearly took away my children's father. I nearly became a single parent. I could have lost it all, including my mind which does come and go on occasion even now. But she didn't. She didn't get anything. She had her intangible fun for two years and now it's over. Why? Because I didn't let her have it. I put my foot down and kept it down and even though it seems it would be so much easier to just give up and runaway, I'm not going to do so. <P>Like your wife, I too feel my H has changed for real this time and that it will be a last time. Why? Because this time is so much bigger than before and I suspect the same thign is true for you. I have read, and I believe, that sometimes people have to screw up really big before they learn. I know this was the case for my H. He had to nearly lose it all before he learned he didn't want to lose any of it. And it sounds like the same thing is true for your wife, she had to really screw up big before she could wake up.<P>Try to think of it this way, never mind the specifics of what they did to us. Just ask yourself this, if you had been the one to screw up really big, and like her (I'm assuming now based on what I've read in your post) you wanted another chance...wouldn't you want her to give it to you?<P>Yes it is hard to live with the reality of what they did each and every day. God knows I know how true that is. I really do. But I also know that today is easier than it was 3 months ago. And today is even better than it was 5 months ago when he was still having the affair behind my back. So as time passes on, the quality of my life improves. Doesn't mean it's not hard, but it does get better. And I know that given enough time, though I will never forget what has happened, the passage of time will allow me to forgive him for what he has done. Not simply to me, but much moreso, to himself.<P>Forgiving isn't so much for them as it will be for us. It's a way of saying "I'm not going to be angry with you anymore." That doesn't mean we aren't still hurt. Just that we are not going to punish them any longer with our anger. personally, I'm not there yet but I know I will reach that point eventually. I have before and as hard as it is to consider forgiveness right now, I do believe it will come in it's own good time and not sooner. Just gotta have faith!<P>My H often asks me why I dont' just leave him. It's a great question because when I look at all he has done, logic says I'm a fool to invest myself again in this marriage. But you know what, and I hope this makes sense, but the reason I don't leave, quite simply, is because I love him. I know that deep down that wonderful man is still inside somewhere and that he just got lost and has to find himself. And I know he will. And as for what he did, that wasn't the real him anyway. No more than what your wife did was the real person she is. Like my H, she too got lost. Like my H, she too has to find her way back. They both need our love to get back to where they should be. <P>I've rambled on quite a bit. My apologies. I hope this has somehow helped you out. Best of luck to you and please, just take it slow. Time will tell what is best for you to do. It sounds like you already know what you want. But I do understand it's also very hard to follow through on it. Just take it one step at a time. Everything is in your favor right now and moving in the right direction. You just need to give it time to work itself out. It will. <P>Take care, and take care of eachother!<BR>

Brava, Is There Hope!! You said exactly what I wanted to say, but with so much more finesse!<P>HowToForgive:<P>How long has it been since your wife told you? I ask because it takes time to be able to forgive. Sometimes one gets the impression from Christian literatur that one has to forgive overnight, but life doesn't work that way.<P>You can do it! NSR has given you a lot of great links. I wish you all the best! --HBC

Dear NSR, Sheba, Is there Hope and Hurt but Coping,<P>First, thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your caring as well as the advise you offered.<P>I visited the sites suggested by NSR and have pondered your thoughts, but still feel there is an unresolved issue within me. To give you a bit more info, I have been dealing with this for the better part of a year. Neither my W nor I LB about it, and the problems that led to the affair have long since cleared up. We are both seeing a Christian counselor, and I have been on antidepressants for awhile. I have little fear that she will cheat again, because I think she truly learned from the experience.<P>I liked the different ways you suggested changing my vase analogy: like a broken leg that heals stronger or ground up and reformed into something new and better. I guess my analogy was lacking in that there are no 'absolutes' when making a vase; no right and wrong, if you will. But in marriage, there are sins and then there are SINS! I don't know that a marriage which has experienced what mine has can be made better than ever, in that what was lost was the most essential ingredient: being true to one another. Could a virgin who is raped but grows from the experience say that she is now better than ever?! <P>If I were business partners with someone, and they stole my entire savings and squandered it, and then confessed and repented, I would forgive them. But that doesn't mean I would continue to have them as a partner! Forgiveness doesn't mean that you go on as though it hadn't happened, when the crime cut to the heart of the relationship, does it?<P>I'm confused, and would greatly appreciate your help in sorting this out...<P>Howtoforgive

Howtoforgive,<P>Forgiving isn't the same as forgetting...<BR>...they are similar... but different just the same!<P>You will <B>never</B> forget...<BR>...you're human<BR>...there will be "triggers" all throughout your life<BR>...memory doesn't get wiped clean<P>Does that mean you can't heal...<BR>No!!!<P>Grave harm... adultery... "<B>THE SIN</B>"... isn't going to be lightly dismissed...<BR>but that is what we need to do...<BR>Jesus is asking us to do that!<P>Today happened to have been, in my church, the commemeration of Pentecost...<BR>Today... I heard (in fact read)...<BR>What sins we retain... will be retained...<BR>What sins we loose... will be loosed!<P>Can we really hold back our spouse's sins...<BR>...even "<B>THE SIN</B>"...<BR>...and let our "righteousness" kill our spouses?! (rhetorical)<P>We are ourselves sin every day...<BR>...they may not be as bad as "<B>THE SIN</B>"<BR>...but is that for us to judge?!<P>Be called to follow in Jesus' steps...<BR>I call you to follow those steps...<BR>...forgive them... they know not what they do.<P>Please don't feel you are better than your W.<BR>You are not... you just had a little more restraint... and a lot more graces...<BR>Be thankful... and show your thanks... by saying to yourself...<BR>"I can't forget this... but I can let it go... because that is what Jesus would want... "<P>The "essential ingredient" of your marriage (any marriage for that matter) isn't keeping your vows of fidelity...<BR>...it is your vow to love... no matter what!<BR>...it is your vow to love... as Jesus loved!<BR>Wasn't Jesus at your marriage?!<BR>I think he smiled at mine...<BR>...I think he smiled at your too...<BR>...knowing all you can do!<P> <P>Jim

HowToForgive,<P>I am in the same situation. I am about 99.9% sure my wife will not cheat again. (She had 2 one nt stands with 'gentlemen' she met over the internet). Before these incidents I trusted her fidelity 100% without question; Blindly trusted her and completly trusted her. So now the pain I feel just doesn't seem to go away and we are going on 3 years of recovery. She has moved on emotionally and put this all behind her since she now gets the affection that she never had before from me. She has as she puts it "Moved on" and can't understand why I am 'Stuck in the past" <P>The pain and doubt, small though it is, hangs over me and the least little trigger brings the memories back to me like a cold icy bucket of water. <P>I say beyond a shadow of a doubt that in most respects our marriage is 1000 times better than it has ever been. But it all boils down to a bottom line that asks "Can I EVER feel 100% sure of her fidelity in the future when I know I will never be able to forget what she did?". It's a toughie, the hardest thing I have ever had to deal with in my 51 years of life and 28 years of marriage.<P>The best to you

Okay, I think I got your question but I'm not sure how clear I will be in answering it. <P>In looking back at what I've been through as I think of your question, this thought comes to mind. Before the betrayals began, I was perfectly happy loving my H as I did and with the way he loved me. I was "in love" and though all was NOT right with the world, my little corner of the world was coping fine though we did have a rough road.<P>And then the betrayals arrived. Following discovery of the affair comes discovery of our relationship and what went wrong, why, and how to avoid it in the future. All things we hadn't addressed before or given thought to worry ourselves with. So we worked on these things. And in the end, some two years after the one night stand, purely a PA, our marriage was a very different relationship than what it was two years prior. And I liked it better. I don't like that we had to go through what we did to get to where we were, but what we ended up with, once the pain healed, was so much better.<P>Now, it is true that my H at that point in time got involved in an EA which lasted until this past Feb, some two and a half years of lying and cheating and God knows what all. And like you I pondered the worthiness of going through all of this pain and healing...again. After all, I know what it's going to require, and this particular time is far more painful than it was previously. <P>And I came up with this as an answer.<BR> If I leave him I'm still going to love him and with or without him, I will suffer. So it makes more sense to suffer to achieve a greater marriage in the end than to suffer trying to rebuild my life after a failed marriage.<BR> I also thought of the fact that he didn't try to hurt me. Yes he certainly should have known that it would and perhaps he did for why else did he take the trouble to cover it for two years, but the point is, he was really just trying to have his cake and eat it, too, not trying to become this Jekyl and Hyde person that he did become. He got caught up in the momentum and lost control. This is why he did something so stupid. Not because he was TRYING to hurt me. The latter of which is much more serious.<BR> What he did is forgivable though not forgetable and that isn't such a bad thing really. It's by remembering that we stay on the right path. It's when we get cocky and forget the errors of our way that we tend to stray.<BR> I don't want to spend my life alone and so if I left him, I would hope to eventually find another person to share my life with. In reality, that marriage stands the same chances that this marriage did of having to deal with infidelity. It occurs much more in marriages than those it does not. So in all probability, I'll walk this path again. Well, I'm already on the path. Why would I stop now, take a break, and just start all over again? I'd rather just deal with it now and get on with our lives. Someone "new" as my H doesn't at all mean I'll have a better life. It just means I'll have to deal with someone different and likely about the same thing...betrayal.<BR> Something was wrong in our marriage and though I "knew" what it was, I didn't appreciate how important it was to address it. I thought it was something minor, a low priority. I didn't correct it. Didn't think there was a rush order on doing so and I was mistaken. Perhaps had my H said "hey, I'll go look elsewhere to get my needs met if you don't do this for me..." maybe I would have given it more attention, but he didn't communicate that at all. So we were both at fault in the breakdown of our relationship. <BR> Even though this hurts like I've never hurt before, whether I stay in the marriage or not, it's still going to hurt. And if I leave the marriage, I've not only been hurt, but I've lost everything in the end. I've allowed the affair to not only temporarily rob me of my H but I will have allowed it to have permanently changed my life forever. Does it deserve that much power over me?<BR> What my H did, though it hurt me very deeply, he really and truly only did to himself. He didn't "do" anything "to" me. I was simply an innocent victim in all of it. You mentioned being raped. Well, reality is, we haven't been raped. We haven't had our hearts ripped out either, but yes, it does feel that way. Reality is, our spouses strayed for very stupid reasons and broke our trust. As a result, life has changed. But here's the catch, how it changes is up to us. We can allow it to destroy us entirely and completely, OR we can allow ourselves to feel and accept the reality of the pain BUT move forward and find something of value in this lesson so that it has meaning and purpose and so that something good can come out of something awful. Just because it is the most devistating pain one can inflict on another does not mean that it has to remain in a state of devistation. Personally, I choose not to live that way. If I did, I might as well stop living.<BR> There are many more reasons but because I don't want to ramble on, let me just jump in with the biggest reason of all. Some may moan and groan when they read this, others might even vomit, but for me, it is true. I didn't walk away from my husband still because...quite simply because that's what it means to love someone...to not turn my back on him just because he broke my heart, just because he broke my trust, just because he's human. These are all reasons to continue loving him and if nothing else, to love him all the more. If I were in his shoes, I would not want him to turn his back on me. How can I possibly turn my back on him? I promised him and I promised God years ago, for better or worse. Well, this is "worse", and I didn't have any clauses in the agreement. So if I walk away from him, I too am breaking a trust.<BR> Nobody said love was easy. It's not. It's the hardest thing in the world right now. But I KNOW that if I don't allow myself to succumb to the pain, if I force myself to forge ahead and try to be patient, allow myself to slip on occasion and be angry when necessary, I KNOW that in the end, I will have something far better than I've ever had before. Our relationship will be on a whole new playing field as we'll have gone through an extremely difficult period together, with success, and that's going to be a shared success that will bring us closer together.<P>Like anything else in life, bad things often times occur because something wasn't quite right and so the opportuntity presented itself. It is through these mistakes and our determination to win over them that our relationships are made better. If we weren't challenged, our lives would become stagnant. Though I could go for some "stagnant" days right now, overall, I need the challenge..it's a chance to grow, a chance for change, a chance for failure as well but given determination and love and all that good stuff, it's a chance for a better life and greater happiness and love.<P>I want to take the chance. I think you do, too! And yes, it gets hard knowing if we're doing the right thing... but I think that's only when our faith is weak. And then we just need to try a little bit harder. So tomorrow I'm going to start working out at the gym. Focusing my energies (and my anger!) on the equipment and try and make something good out of something bad. Don't know if it will work but I do know that I'm not going to let this pain rob me of anymore days. I hope you find the will to do the same. Best of luck to you.<P><BR>