This is a can of worms that has gotten opened periodically on the forum... I was the "can-opener" about a year & a half ago. (Yikes!! Duck for cover!)<P>I do respect the beliefs that anyone chooses to espouse. But I too was finding some of the proselytizing a bit much... MB is not an avowedly Christian site, and I still feel that people of all faiths (and none, if that is the case) should feel welcome here, without being challenged over their personal beliefs. MB is a very unique and special place, and those who need to utilize it are somewhat of a captive audience.<P>I do understand the central importance of "sharing the Good News" to certain faiths; however, I feel there are more appropriate forums than this to try to persuade people that there is only one way to heaven. That said, I have no objection to people offering prayers or referring to God helping someone.<P>(Suse ducking for cover now - as I said, this is a *very* volatile subject!)<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

HurtButCoping and Suse, thank you for actually reading what I wrote and understanding the meaning of what I wrote, maybe you guys did a better job of saying what I meant.

Hi everybody!!!! I don't really understand what's going on here, but I think everybody needs a great big hug and a teddy bear *passes one around to everyone*. I know you guys will probably continue to argue about this, but.........I guess it would be nice if......d'oh!!!!! I haven't the faintest idea what I was going to say! OK, everybody, have a nice day! [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<P>Ps Please don't slam on me, my post wasn't meant to be mean, I just thought ya'll would like some hugs and a bear! [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<P>------------------<BR> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse" TARGET=_blank>http://www.geocities.com/zbucketmouse</A> is where my page is. Oh yeah, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR REPLIES!!!:) Very much appreciated!:)

Well, I'm a lapsed Jew/pagan with Buddhist leanings, so I guess I'm headed straight to hell. <P>That said, I've NEVER felt unwelcome here because of the religious leanings of some of the participants here.<P>Yes, I have taken the bait from certain betrayers who feel that their religion makes them better than I am because they are "saved by Jesus", even though they've cheated on their spouses and I haven't.<P>But by and large, I've had no problems here. When the proseletyzing gets to be too much (and it's really only certain posters), I just bypass those posts.<P>It's not like we're a captive audience...

FA, I have always understood what you meant. I understand where you are coing from. You in essence are saying that it is RUDE to such things as tell someone that they are wrong.<P>We get to the truth through discussion with others than trying to get there on our own in a vacuum. It is the cross polinization of ideas that proves which are right and which are wrong because the right and wrong is an absolute that isn't dependent on subjective reasoning. Yes, this does exist. Just because we don't know all the rules does not make this state nonexistent.<P>I still contend that you are saying that I am wrong by your post. I am not saying that you are wrong. I just want you to see it from my perspective and see that you are in essence saying that I am wrong even though you don't see it that way. I know you are saying the same about me. I just want you to see how what you are applying goes both ways rather than one way.<P>D&C,<BR>But those individuals you refer to are not necessarily Christians. Just because you profess it does not make you one. According to the Bible you are better off than those who profess to be Christians bacause they claim to know. Their plight is significantly worse.<P>------------------<BR><B><I>God Bless,<BR>Rob</I></B><BR> regilmor@swbell.net <p>[This message has been edited by professorg (edited June 16, 2000).]

Ladies and gentlemen -<P>Without getting too much into quibbling over definitions, I think most people would agree that MarriageBuilders is a Christian site. <P>Dr. Harley, his wife, and (I believe) his children are professing Christians. There is a Women's Bible Study forum on the website, as well as a Prayer Requests forum. The purpose is marriage counseling rather than direct evangelism, but many of the posters (like me, for instance) are Christians, so I would expect that a substantial amount of the advice passed around here is coming from a Christian perspective. <P>Some are more direct about advocating their beliefs than others, but one way or another you are going to get a clear understanding of what our core philosophy is. <P>This doesn't mean there is nothing here for non-Christians. We are honestly interested in helping if we can, and we should certainly not make becoming a Christian a prerequisite for receiving the best advice and support we can offer. I believe the principles that MarriageBuilders proposes can work for non-Christians. Just be aware of our mindset so you don't get surprised. <P>One thing Christians shy away from (as a rule) is the idea that truth is different for everyone. For better or worse, we believe that Jesus is Lord and Messiah and that God exists in pretty much a literal sense, and that those who choose not to believe this are as wrong as it is possible to be. Part of the urgency with which we evangelize is, believe it or not, out of genuine concern for others' ultimate well being. <P>Our view of such things is not like saying there are many roads to where you are going, and it doesn't matter which one you take. It is more like "You are about to drive off a cliff! For God's sake HIT THE BRAKES!"<P>I hope none of this is offensive. If it is, I apologize, so go get what you can from the other threads.<P>Regards,<BR>rs0522

Folks:<P>While Dr. Harley and his family have definitely indicated they are strongly Christian, they are people. This is a website. The internet, by design, brings people from all over the world together, and this website is no different in that respect than any other.<P>Here is the rule that I would like to see you ALL follow: Believe what you believe, but respect that others may not believe the same. It is true that this discussion occurs every so often, and that it is a very volatile one.<P>Being accessible to anyone in the world with a computer and an internet connection, the MB forums attract people from many cultures and countries - and religious beliefs. And on the Infidelity forum group, we share one common thing: the hurt of infidelity. Let's all focus on what it is we have in common here, and try to support, comfort and help each other with that in mind.<P>Thank you for your cooperation.<P>------------------<BR>Tempest, Moderator<BR>Marriage Builders<BR>Infidelity Forum<P>

Ahhhh...nothing like a bit of diversion to get our minds off our own struggles.<P>FA...you asked something to the effect of 'how can you tell who the real Christians are anyway?"<BR>Jesus answered that...<BR>"By this will you know who my disciples are...by the love they have one for another."<P>Oh...one thing I have often pondered; because I realize Jesus did seperate "Christianity" from all other religions by claiming to be the "only way to the Father..." ...and that is this: <BR>If there were "other ways" to receive "eternal life...salavation....enlightement" outside of surrendering your life to Jesus, then there would have been no need for him to die the horrible death he died...and to pay the price he paid...<BR>All His suffering would have been for naught, if there were other suitable ways...to the eternal Father.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tempest:<BR><B>. Believe what you believe, but respect that others may not believe the same.<P>Being accessible to anyone in the world with a computer and an internet connection, the MB forums attract people from many cultures and countries - and religious beliefs. And on the Infidelity forum group, we share one common thing: the hurt of infidelity. .<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank You Tempest, you said it better than I ever could. <P>

nb to rs0522 - It's my understanding that the Women's Bible Study group and the Prayer Requests section were formed at the specific requests of members (which I think is fine). They were not originally part of the Forum (I have been here since Jan.'99).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoMas:<BR><B>. 'how can you tell who the real Christians are anyway?"<BR>Jesus answered that...<BR>"By this will you know who my disciples are...by the love they have one for another."<P>Oh...one thing I have often pondered; because I realize Jesus did seperate "Christianity" from all other religions by claiming to be the "only way to the Father.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think the Tempest post said it best, but I see that some people still can't get an understanding of what that means Respect for other people does not mean continuing to try to "explain", "justify", or "convince" others of the "right" way of being, believe what you are going to believe and respect those that have different beliefs.........THAT'S ALL!!!!<P>To those that our Christians I never in anyway tried to criticize you because of your beliefs and I have gotten the notion that this is how you took my initial posting because of all of the defensiveness about your faith that seems to be here on this thread, that was never meant to be the case, then or now, I just want people to respect each other and show each other love and concern, no matter what faith someone may be, can we all do that?<P>I shouldn't do this, because this is the discussion that I wanted to avoid and was not what this post was all about, but I guess I am now somewhat reacting to the defensiveness that I have seen from the simple request to not push your own beliefs onto others, but what the heck, maybe this will take your mind off of the pain that you are going through, so what the heck.......<P>Others may have used the term or the name of a religion, but <B>Jesus</B> himself <B>never</B> used the term or word Christianity, never, as a matter of fact the term came from the enemies or persecutors of the followers of Jesus, at Antioch. So does that make those that believe in the Bible and in what Jesus said, doomed to an eternity in hell because they may not call themselves Christians? I know that I may be opening up a new can of worms, but it was just a thought.

I wanted to apologize for my earlier post. I had overlooked Tempest's post about curbing things down. I really had no place posting what I did. <BR>Besides...given the place I find myself in these days, I don't feel like I am one to be talking to people about "how and why" a person should be a christian. <BR>Once again...I apologize fo speaking out of turn.

F A<P>For whatever it's worth, I agreed with the intent of your post and still do.<P>I hope we can all continue to support each other.