i need some opinions on this. first of all, i just got back from the bookstore and now have Dr. Harley's SAA. i have several books on infidelity, which were helpful, but they all seemed geared to couples still living together. my H moved out over six months ago. so i am hoping this book will give me a different perspective, because i am at the end of my rope. i am so close to just throwing in the towel because i want an end to this awful pain.<P>my question is this. i have had a strong urge to go to the office where this OW works, along with my H. i want to show her that my H that she so selfishly helped herself to really does have a flesh and blood wife. also, i want to see what this woman looks like. i have built up an image in my mind of a gorgeous, flawless younger woman. maybe she's rather ordinary in reality. i want to say to her that i hope some day she suffers from the intense pain and anguish she has helped cause me and my children. and then i will walk away because i don't know how much self control i have. have any of you done this and what was the result? will this cause more trouble than it is worth?

sadwife,<P>I can understand your need to know. I really do. I drove myself crazy. I asked all my friends who saw the OW and my H together, "What did she look like? What did she dress like?" They told me that she was not attractive, just sort of plain, but I was convinced that they were just saying that to spare my feelings. So I drove myself even crazier.<P>I actually did have contact with the OW. When it got to the point where I found out where my H was living (with the OW) and we had tax and other financial issues to discuss, I emailed her and called her. He is my H, and I have every right to talk to him. I personally do not regret doing this. I did not approach the OW in a mean, vicious way; I approached her as a wife who was terribly hurt by her H's actions. Turns out that she had been fed a lot of lies by my H, and was sort of shaken into reality once I told her the full story. He had told her that we were legally separated and going to divorce, when in all actuality, there was absolutely no paperwork filed, and he just walked out on me one day. So she got my side of the story. There is a lot more to this than I want to get into on this board. Of course, there were instances where she lied and still continues to lie, however, that's irrelevant at this point, because she does not have my H. I do. She's over, history, nada - to treat her as though she means anything to our relationship is giving more validation to the affair. I am convinced that my contact with the OW hastened the death of my H's EMR, to be honest. If I hadn't found out who she was and where she lived and every little thing about her, I think he would have gone on indefinitely. As luck would have it, I have a good friend who moved into OW's apartment building - how creepy is that?!!! So I know for a fact that he is not visiting or going to see her - my friend keeps a sharp eye out for his car and monitors the comings and goings from OW's apartment for me. My friend has a direct view of OW's door. This combination of my finding out about the OW, finding out who she was, where she lived, etc., and having a friend who lived nearby put a screeching halt to H's EMR. It took effort and diligence, but it was well worth the results.<P>If you want to see what this woman looks like and feel that you cannot rest unless you talk to her, then ... well, it's your decision to do that. But I urge you not to say anything or do anything that will give the OW a justification for her part in the affair. If you must say something to her, be kind and civil. Be very honest and open, but not mean. I also urge you not to approach her where she works, as she can have you thrown out of the building. This can be construed as harassment. If you absolutely *must,* make contact once and then never again. Leave a good impression.<P>belld

belldandy,<P>thanks for your quick reply! i am having a bad day, very emotional, so contacting the OW has been on my mind again. i just need some relief from the pain. i have driven myself crazy from the time i first suspected (and knew in my heart) that they had gotten together. she is 35...12 years younger than me and H. childless and divorced, makes alot of money. so as i said, i have built up an image of her in my mind. i wonder why it really matters to me. <P>the day after my H admitted to his affair, i, in a very emotional state, composed a letter to the OW and called and got her voice mail at work, and proceeded to read it to her. YOW!! my H called later that day and amazingly said to me "i"m really disappointed in you". (i said...gee, honey, i'm kinda DISAPPOINTED in you, too!)at any rate, i guess the woman just freaked and was going to call a lawyer and get a restraining order against me. my H talked her out of it. but this was back in Jan. the letter did contain some pretty harsh statements and some very nasty words, i admit.<P>i don't know, i will think on it some more. maybe i am giving this woman too much importance. maybe she wouldn't "get it" anyway. you are so lucky the way things turned out for you. to actually have a friend who can "spy" for you. i don't know where this woman lives, and her phone number is unlisted. what i want here is for her to realize she is a party to destroying a family. how can she live with that? i want her to feel intense guilt and regret. probably won't happen, right?

Sadwife,<BR>I contacted the OW. I actually made my H take me to her apartment and I confronted her. Contrary to what you might think if you read my post about her on the "I'm not a whore" thread, I was VERY civil and mature. It was brief. My H told her it was over and he loved his wife and wanted to work on his marriage. I wanted so bad to be mean and to tell her what I thought of her but I did not feel that is what God would have me to do.<P>After that meeting I have agonized at times over wanting to tell her off. Many letters have been written, but all have gone unmailed. Now, I am glad that I took the higher road and was the nice one. (She doesn't know I call her "The Whore" on here!)<BR> <BR>I know how you feel that it just eats you up wanting to know what she looks like. I did too. Before I found out who he had the affair with (He said it was a stranger, when it was actually a co-worker) I drove myself crazy wondering about her. Personally, it helped me to know what she looked like. If I had gone on wondering about this stranger forever I don't think I could have stood it. Still, it hurts either way.<BR> <BR>About wanting her to know what pain she has caused you and your children... I understand. When I confronted the OW I did say, "I'm sorry you don't feel about your daughter the way I feel about my children. When I look at them I am filled with so much love that I wouldn't want any child in the world to hurt. I'm sorry you don't feel that way." (Okay, so maybe I wasn't totally mature!) Anyway, I didn't launch into ALL the damage she has really caused. I decided to leave it in God's hands.<BR> <BR>My advice to you is to do what you feel is best. Don't act in a way that you will be ashamed of later. Have you thought about what you would say and do? How would this affect your relationship with your H? <BR> <BR>Could you see her without her seeing you? I stalked the OW the other day because I want to know if she moved or not. And if she got pregnant or not. (You see my maturity is only a facade...) Just a thought.

Hi Sadwife,<P> I personally HAD to see her, I was going crazy and like you had her built up as some gorgeous babe. When I finally had my chance , it was the best thing that happened.....she was plain, and older looking and very prissy.....the first thing I felt was relief and then when I saw her house (my H had made her out to be a Martha Stewart type) I almost laughed....it made me realize how delusional he was.<BR> From then on, I felt empowered and knew exactly what I was dealing with. I called her a few things (homewrecking B)...probably shouldn't have but I think it made her realize I was not going away!....I have never regretted confronting her , just be very , very careful and restrained......LU

D.I.,<P>what a sad, sad user name you have. ofcourse i have felt that way myself since my H left us.<P>since i have never met the OW, i wouldn't be able to have a look at her from a distance. i wish i knew some of my H's co-workers so i could get some info from them, but unfortunately i don't. they work in a very large office in busy downtown Denver so it's a hassle even to get into the building.<P>i may have to let go of this idea, for now. my H is in frequent contact with me by phone and comes over on wed. evenings, so i need to focus on that, and not HER, but it is so hard. naive as i must be (imagine that at MY age) i am amazed and disillusioned at how cruel and selfish people can be, and i want to say that to her face. but i am sure she, like my H, feels completely justified in her actions, and i might as well talk to a brick wall.

Lu,<BR>it seems from the replies so far, it's natural for me to want to do this. that makes me feel better. i have felt OBSESSED about what this woman looks like, dresses like, etc. i will think carefully about this, though. i still don't trust my emotions and self control totally, and don't want to end up looking like a madwoman ("no wonder he left his wife"...), or get slapped with harassment. how unfair, she gets to scr** my H and cause untold pain to me and my kids but is not breaking the law, where if i show up at her workplace and tell her what i think of her, i can get myself in legal hot water. boggles my mind.<P>i just need to put some of these images in my mind to rest. imagination can be a dangerous thing......well, i'm going to start reading Harley's book. thank you all. this day started off pretty lousy but i am feeling better after hearing from you. SW

I contacted the OW because I felt that 'if only she knew the truth, she would stop seeing my husband." Wrong. <BR>I'm glad I saw her but I am also glad that I was very polite with her. In my dreams, I am not quite as classy....hmmmm. Yet, I have my dignity.<BR>You can give in and see her, but realize that you may always wonder about something with the A. "If only..." can become quite a greedy monster.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sadwife_in_co:<BR><B>i still don't trust my emotions and self control totally, and don't want to end up looking like a madwoman ("no wonder he left his wife"...), or get slapped with harassment. SW</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would not advice going to her workplace or anything of the type. If you have some financial resources, maybe a PI could satisfy your curiousity....or even someone adept at internet snooping. It is amazing what you can find out on the internet.<P>Remember, she was ready to get a restraining order once, and probably still has that "harsh" latter you reference. You don't want something like that on your record. <BR>

Yeah, pretty sad user name. Pretty sad to ever feel that way. When I first started posting here I could think of nothing else to describe myself. <P>Well, I think you are being smart by waiting and not doing anything hasty that you will regret. Show your H that you are classier than that. I know you are by trying to focus on the time the two of you have together. <P>I too am amazed at how cruel and selfish people can be. But, chances are if sleeping with a married man and destroying a family doesn't clue her in to her cruelty, then hearing from you won't either. <P>Anyway, I'm glad you are feeling better. You deserve it! DI

I would have to advise against contacting the OW. I did and have really regretted it. <P>One, it gave her leverage. She sent my e-mail to my H making me look like a pathetic helpless creature and her look like the mana from heaven because she had to ask my H if she should respond. I personally think she wanted to make me look bad. So, this also meant she contacted my H after the no contact letter. Bad, bad, bad. Back to the drawing board.<P>Two, she replied and it hurt. After it hurt, it made me mad. I just wanted to let her have my H who had become a complete hurting wreck consumed with guilt, depression, and shame. A most unattractive picture. I was ready to throw away my love, my life and all of the Harley principles because this woman was manipulating my mind just like she manipulated my H's mind.<P>Three, when I started thinking about it, I realized that this is just what she wanted. Her divorce is almost final and she needed a man. My H is a great man who grew up with her and was nice to her when her H had an A. So, instead of doing the noble thing and telling my H that if he needed help with his marraige, he should see a therapist, she stepped in, the selfish bimbo. She wanted me to get mad and leave him in her clutches. No, no, no. I still love my H, and I'm not going to give him up to a husband-stealing woman without a fight. I would have fought for him if he was dating someone before we were married, so I'm certainly going to fight for him now that he's my H.<P>The point of this rambling is no matter how much you want to talk to her, are you prepared for the answers and for her to start controling your relationship. First she will hurt you by telling you how much she and your H are "in love". Then, she will make you second guess yourself. I really didn't need to hear about how their relationship was "not some torid sex affair" and how she was going to step aside if she thought my H might be happy with me. What kind of bolonga is that? She should have never stepped in in the first place. Your self-esteem will probably sink even lower because you will wonder if someone like that could attract your H, how bad must you be to be unattractive to him. It's just best to let sleeping dogs lie. I tell you, I ended up looking like a pathetic, clinging piece of moldy cheese to her mana direct from heaven.<P>So, don't do it. She won't really answer any of your questions and it will probably just give you more to overcome. Hang in there without it. Hopefully your H can one day give you the answers you need. But keep that woman far away from your relationship.

I understand your wanting to see what she looks like believe me. But if you are obsessing about it ( I understand that too) then you may react in a way that you will regret. I know I did. Try waiting it out, try taking the focus off her and focus on you and your h. Maybe in time you wont even care what she looks like. BTW, when I found out the OW was in town - I went there like a mad woman. My emotions took over completely and she was calm and cool. Guess who looked like the fool? You dont know how you'll react, you may burst into tears and if she is as smug as the OW in my case she may practically laugh in your face. I hope you think about what could happen before you make your decision. Take care, magoskid

magoskid and all,<BR>thank you all for helping me out with this. i think for now i will put it on the back burner. when i am feeling really sad and upset, i get these awful urges to go get in her face and really let her have it, hurt her any way i can with words,(i don't want to get thrown in jail for physical assault, though i sure think about it.) i also know it would have a negative effect on any progress between my H and i. the visceral satisfaction i would get out of it might not be worth it in the long run. it's not fair it has to work this way. thanks for all the input. i'm off to read SAA and i'm sure to come up with more questions. SW

OW contacted me the first time to tattle on H after he dumped her. And she was such a good little secret keeper during the affair lol! After constant hang up calls and the fact that she wouldn't stop calling my H at work (even though he told her to) I finally called her. First she started with "I can be friends with and call whoever I want" She was such a whiny b---h! It was like talking to someone in junior high. This chick just had no clue that she was living in real life. Then it was "He hurt me and it's not fair, I hate you" blah blah. The first time she called I hardly said anything. That time I let her have it (although not nearly as much as she deserved). I made it very clear that we were together and staying that way. In one respect I feel as if I made her think she was more important than she really was, and that I regret.But on the other hand, the calls tapered off really fast and stopped shortly after. Of course she probably found someone else to become obsessed with.

Lapeine, Fairydust,<P>i have thought about it some more overnight, and knowing my H as i do, i think contacting the OW in any way directly would not be good. my main goal is to get him back home and away from her. i am just going to have to get these feelings under control for now. a friend once suggested i go to his office with something special for him, i.e. a nice homemade lunch or flowers for his birthday, and maybe that bimbo would see ME. that sounds safer at this point. <P>i read ALL of Harley's SAA last night (and consequently overslept this morning) and of all the books on the subject that i have read, his made the most sense to me. all night long i kept nodding my head, saying "yes, that's what is happening right now" and "yes, that is how he is acting". i feel like i have more of a plan, more of a direction to go in. i am feeling more hopeful....

More about OW contact. I too had several hang-up phone calls in the middle of the night placed from various downtown bars and all-night cafes and phone booths. I got anonymous email telling me all about H's affair. I got hacked not once, but twice, and email sent out in my name (OW knows some high techie people). <P>I had deliberately set up a sole sub-account when I contacted the OW. I knew then that any anon. email that I got in that account would come from her; she was the *only person with this eddress.* I think that this has made my H come to the realization that this woman is clearly deranged when it comes to what she though she had with him. She might have been "playing it cool," but oh, believe me, she will do *anything* to get me to cast doubt on my marriage with my H. Sometimes it works, but now I get to the point where I just pick up the phone, sigh and say, "What do you want, (OW's name?)" *Click!* Buzz.<P>And I go back to sleep. I am sooooo glad that I was never *that* pathetic.<P>belld

Sadwife, I would hold out on going to your H's office too. At least for awhile. You don't want the OW to even think that you are there to see her. Better, to just deliver your H a huge cookie bouquet or fruit basket with a sweet message in it about how much you love him. I was thinking about doing this today, but my H called to tell me he was not going into the office today, so I guess I will have to do it some other time. In my case, the OW doesn't work with him, so I would just be doing it because I love him. You, however, would have the added bonus of showing the OW that you love him and giving her something to think about.

Lapeine,<P>Great idea! A cookie basket is always a good idea, because it's something that one can share with the whole office. Imagine the OW choking on those crumbs, LOL!!! <P>I am probably in the minority, but I personally think that once the W and OW make contact, the affair begins to wither and die. As soon as I found out about the OW and made contact with her, that's when my H started separating from her. He didn't want her to find out anything, or me to find out anything. I think that at that point he was just scared. <P>But I also interjected myself into their tidy little world. I'm sure that H was none too thrilled that OW knew that I was a real person, and even less thrilled that we had talked via email. I think it sort of took the whole "secrecy" aspect out of the affair. So in my case, I think it was a good thing.<P>belld

Hi Belldandy,<P> I'm with you , I think becoming real to the OW helped to take some fantasy out of the whole affair. All of a sudden there was a flesh and blood wife and kids and it started to get "messy".....definitely not conducive to a great romance!<P> It also helped me to see her, and put her in perspective....until I did, I really thought she was going to be a gorgeous,movie star type.....hardly!!! LU

Lapeine, Belldandy, Lu:<P>i really believe i will not rest until somehow i have seen this woman, directly or indirectly. i really like the idea of sending a cookie bouquet to his office. I REALLY, REALLY love the image of HER choking down a cookie. Hoo, boy! so what kind of places send cookie bouquets? <P>despite all my violent fantasies of rearranging her face and all, i don't feel so driven for a confrontation these days. i have shifted my focus to the interaction between my H and me. after reading Harley's book SAA, that focus has been reinforced. but i really do feel it is important that this slutty woman see i am a flesh and blood reality, not some imaginary person my H has created. yes, he has a wife that has spent many years doing the hard work that goes into a marriage; yes, he has three children that previously adored their Dad but have lost all respect for him. and yes, SHE is a big reason why. oh, yeah, we are gonna meet one of these days.....