I was thinking about the 'No Contact' rule and how necessary it is to get past the addiction of an affair, whether it is an EA or a PA. However, it seems that no contact allows for the perpetuation of the fantasy. If the OP is not seen in reality after the end of the A, the fantasy lives on in the mind of the betrayer.<P>I think in most cases, where both the WS and the OP, are equally attached to each other, no contact is necessary.<P>But in some cases (like mine) where the OP is the one who ended it, I think no contact is not doing me any good. I'm not saying that I should carry on a friendship with him. Aside from the effect that it would have on my marriage, he has made it clear that he doesn't want that. But if he was present at the dances, but not interacting with me, I would see him in a more realistic light. I would see him interacting with others. It would hurt at first to see him there and not be able to talk to him or dance with him, but in time I would start to see him for who is and not the person I have dreamt him up to be. I think that would help me get past the withdrawal a lot more than what I'm dealing with now. All the memories of nicer times, the fantasies of what I thought could have been, the fantasies of what will happen if he does show up one day...<P>I think a good dose of in-my-face reality would do me a world of good.

OK...I understand what you are saying. But in your case, now that you have thought of this, you can do quite a bit by yourself to deflate the fantasy?

TS:<P>We've discussed this in terms of "how an affair should end". It's always best when one of the affair partners engages in lovebusting behaviors and completely deflates the fantasy. But it doesn't happen in all the cases.<P>In your case, you've already got the fantasy busting behavior; you're just ignoring it. He hasn't contacted you, and he really doesn't care. Hardly behavior for a "soul-mate", huh?

The other suggestion for wliminating the fantasy is to develop a plan forimproving your marriage, and work on it...keep pulling oneself back to that goal & efforts to get there. Quite difficult at first, gradually becomes easier, I'm told.<P>Hugs--<P>Kathi

TS,<BR>Interesting point...except, as your post shows, you'd still be watching him and being in his life vicariously and hoping and wondering if there wouldn't be a moment of re-connection.<P>Another view, my H's OW has said really snotty things to him about our reconciliation(s)--they broke off & resumed their relationship a couple times. Are you after that sort of negative interaction? That game brought them back together at least once. My opinion is that both of them wanted to be the person who "broke it off". It's no fun being dumped...are you wanting to check to see if you could get him back?<P>I know if I saw or talked to my EA, I'd be at ground zero, whereas at the moment I'm on a hill with a view.<P>Take care TS, I know it is a struggle. I try to think as logically as I can about my hopes for my marriage & family (I know you aren't there) and how little the OM fits into those plans and base my actions on that and not on how I feel at any given moment.<P>Both last year at this time and the year before my H left me, so this is a particularly icky time of year for me and marked by a week long festival sort of thing where he took her both years. Believe me, if you hold any hope for your marriage, you don't want bad memories 2 years deep.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

FHL,<P>You'd think so, but I haven't been very successful. <P>I'm a visual person. I need to see it before it can sink in. It has a year and a half's worth of other images to compete with.<P>K,<P>Part of me still believes he's staying away because he doesn't want to be responsible for my marriage breaking up. Why would he stop doing something he enjoys in order to avoid me if he didn't feel something he was afraid of feeling? If he didn't care, wouldn't he just show up anyway, dance with everyone else and ignore me?<P>If he showed up, that line of reasoning would go away. I would be able to watch him interacting with others. I would experience him not giving me the time of day while physically in my presence. That would tell me "I'm not interested" a lot louder than staying away and being silent. It would give me another mental image - a real one - that can compete with all the other images swimming around in my head.<P>

Kathi,<P>If I was sure I wanted my marriage, a plan for improving it would be great. But as Lor pointed out, I'm just not there.<P>Lor,<P>I want to see that I CAN'T get him back. I want to see that I never had him in the first place. I just want to see it.<BR>

TS...<P>Go with the plan for improving it. THEN decide if you want the new and improved version....OF course you don't want he version you are stuck in now!<P>Let go & swim, or we're gonna have to take up a collection for water-wings <P>Kathi

I don't have the energy to put all that effort into something I'm not sure I want. <P>I'll probably be getting "water-wings" on Thursday when I go for my appointment. <P><p>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited August 07, 2000).]

Hi Truthseeker...<BR>I haven't been around the forum much lately. You sound like you're still struggling. So am I. But my no contact has been established, which really did free me from sustaining any more fantasy with OM. NOt even a friendship. I just couldn't handle that even though at first I thought I could. <P>You mentioned your going for your "water wings" on Thursday. Are you going to counseling or are you trying something else? Will you keep us posted. <P>How long have you been married? Were you really in love with your husband when you married him. Is the OM married? Sorry for all the questions, I just can't seem to remember your full story except that you both danced together if I recall. <P>Let us know how Thursday goes...<BR>Wings

Hi wings<P>I'm going to a shrink for anti-depressants. I just can't shake this state of being that I'm in. It seems to be getting worse. I'm having a heck of a time concentrating on work. It's not that my mind is wandering, it's just 'shut off'. I can't think. I just stare at the computer. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>How long have you been married? <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>9 years.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Were you really in love with your husband when you married him.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Who knows? I don't think so. I cared about him, but love? What is that anyway? I don't even know anymore.<P>What I think happened is that he was a nice guy who was interested in me and was interested in helping me raise my son. I needed help. I let my head rule my heart. It would be nice if the two could agree for once.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR> Is the OM married? <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>no.<P>Yes, we used to dance together a lot. Then he suddenly stoppped going with no explanation. I know he's OK (I spoke to someone who knows him) so it's not like he got sick or was in an accident or something (thank God). I miss him a lot. He's made it pretty clear that when he said 'Just friends' back in February that he meant 'not even friends'. He doesn't want me to contact him. Funny. What I heard from him sounded like a no-contact letter. I wonder if he found me here. Or if someone here knows him. It would explain his sudden disappearance pretty well. He disappeared shortly after I started posting here.<P>So 'fess up! Which one of you knows him? K? JL? C'mon, who?<P>Oops, forgot. I'm not supposed to be thinking about him. <P>Things should start getting better after my appointment on Thursday. I hope.<BR>

TS:<P>All illusions aside you know what you're really looking for is one more last chance.<BR>To make it happen once again. <P>But regardless of what the reason for OM ending the A, he has ended it...that's his decision...perhaps it is hard for him too...give him the benefit of the doubt...accept his decision for whatever reason it was made.<P>You're stuck in disbelief...it's understandable...ending the A was not your idea...assume it's for the best..even that he did it for your best interests. Thank him in your heart and let it go.<P>I know you're unsure about whether you love your H...but there's no possibility for your marriage with this continuing fantasy still in your brain. Let the fantasy die...and get on with your life...whatever that may mean.<P>Buffy<BR>

TS, Your post was a good one for me to read this morning. Each day, I have more resolve to focus more and more on my life and that of my kids.<P>I thought long and hard about the perpetuation of the fantasy with my H and wanted so badly to push it further than it was for that reason.<P>I could never live with the wondering if he would constantly be "wondering". And believe me, the hooks are very deep with this one. She has fed him a whole new "ideal" to live. ONe in which he has to tell himself he's "changed" to accept.<P>But I will tell you this. My H was just as infatuated with me at the beginning of our relationship. Just as obsessed. He called me constantly and if I wasn't home he would be mad. He is very needy that way. <P>Now with three kids and the stress's he's had at work many of his check up calls became irritants to me.<P>Even if he ends up with Op and lives this new fantasy for years, I know that in the end he will not ask himself "how many times did I "feel" good", but "how well did I love"<P>I think if you really want to understand love you can see it in your children's eyes. It's quiet and simple and it is based on those core values that we are taught... <P>I can forgive my H many things....just as I can forgive myself for my role in this mess, but the hardest to forgive will be his not trying.<P>I think the lessons that it teaches our children are not the best. To give up on something because it is hard., To move on to what "feels good" instead of ever once thinking of someone else.<P>I hope I am able to teach my children to discover what makes them happy themselves, and to not depend on what's "out there" to do it.<P>It seems to be endemic in our society. And yes, I currently see it in my own kids. They are bored.. They want me to try to find something for them to do, or to have friends over all the time to entertain them or to go somewhere, or to buy some new toy or game or CD to bring momentary pleasure.<P>Maybe, the thing to to when we are constantly looking to "get", is to give instead....<P>I know my H will rationalize that he tried. I, on the other hand, think that saying "i love you", every day to your wife as you walk out the door, including the day you left for the fatal trip, does not constitute trying. (along with the 10 hour, 7 days a week, incl. lunches, days with coworker.)<P>I wonder if he'll think it has all been worth it.

Hi Truthseeker,<P>I've been thinking about you. How are you doing?<P>About your original thoughts: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But in some cases (like mine) where the OP is the one who ended it, I think no contact is not doing me any good. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No contact is essential. Remember, I work with the OM in my situation, and with my H cheating on me, and a divorce in the wings, you can bet that stupid OM looked a bit attractive at times. There has to be no contact. <P>Where there seems to be a difference is when the affair doesn't run it's natural course (ends on its own). If it is ended by the betrayed spouse (discovery, a phone call, a threat), for example, and both betrayers are pining away for the other. That's the most difficult of all. Your affair did not run a natural course, so you wonder how it 'might have been'.<P>Remember, your OM ended it, and yes it breaks your heart... and <B>remember that pain</B>, TS. Remember that so you can go forward. No, your H may not end up being the man for you, but neither was the OM. Hold onto that!<P>Sheryl<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited August 09, 2000).]

I think you are deluding yourself to give yourself a reason to continue the fantasy. I have been in Plan B for a couple months now and no contact has been a God send! I have absolutely NO Fantasies at all about this man. I held on tight to all the good things I thought the STBX was feeling that they outweighed all the other stuff and it kept me emotionally attached. <P>Now, I don't feel anything. He comes around all the time, but I don't go out of my way to see him or talk to him. I just don't care.<BR>I don't want a friendship. I don't want to know what he's doing. I don't care if he thinks of me or if he remembers the good times. I am so much more in control now and feel healthier.<P>I think you would be better off in the long run to do the hard thing now and stick to the no contact. Sorry.

TS,<P>IMHO, you are caught in the mind trap of withdraw.<P>This thing that occupies space between my ears can reek havok on me alot of days...<P>Like all other thoughts and obsessions it will eventualy pass...<P>Hang in there and maintain the no contact...<P>Does your H know about the A? Are you practicing the Harley principles?<P>Have you told your H about these thoughts?<P>In SAA Dr. H had I think it was Ken, tell Jill about his thoughts....in the end his honesty brought them together...<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

Bill,<P>I told my H about it. I have talked with him some about my feelings and my thoughts, but I don't want to inundate him with it. He knows it's been tought for me and I have even cried on his shoulder about it a few times. <P>I am not practicing the Harley principles (except for the honesty one - I believe in that one) because I would feel like a fraud doing it. My heart just isn't in it.<P>My mind keeps running around in circles and I can't get it to stop. I have a Dr. Appointment this afternoon to hopefully get some antidepressants. Maybe then it will get better. <P>And this depression isn't just about the OM. I was depressed before and didn't know it. This just made it 10 times worse.<P>I haven't seen the OM since March. His staying away isn't doing anything to destroy my feelings for him. I thought maybe if he WAS around and started LBing all over the place, then maybe...<P>

TS, As you know, I believe my H to be in the same state as you re: depression.. except he is unwilling to give up the OW and the "created" new ideology (poverty, mission work) that they've created. THe big difference in my situation is that the OW will not give up. Each time things were moving in my direction she jumped through a new hoop. She will give up her kids for him.<P>I know that he believes the same as you. That to do otherwise would be a fraud.<P>I'll have the hardest time forgiving his not trying at all, concidering our three children and the history we have, but I'll have to accept that along with all the other hurts.<P>I will be nice to him throughout the rest of this ordeal, without giving my blessings, but I really hate to think that he will never remember all of the really good times we had. <P>I had to just step aside. It's just going to have to play it's course. I wonder with you (and nomas) if it played out with the OP's if in time those memories would come back.<P>In some ways I feel cheated out of my life. LIke it was nonexistant. I keep trying to pretend that he no longer exists (which the old H and father doesn't). To compartmentalize the good years I had from this past horrid 8 months.<P>Yet here I am in this house with every turn of a corner smacking me with a wonderful memory. <BR>