Time for an update.<P>Not much new.<BR>My wife is down to calling every 2-4 weeks now. She called on 2 Aug. She spoke with my oldest for a bit, then with me & the youngest just for a moment as we were rushing out the door. Said she would call back the next night...<P>4 weeks later (Wed 30 Aug) she calls on my oldest bday. I actually spoke with her again. WOW! Twice in one month. She's trying to give me a heart attack! Anyhoo, she had sent her a card with $100. A real mom's card. She wrote, "someday we'll be close again, I pray."<P>Ticked me off! All she has to do is get on a plane & see them. And she very likely isn't praying either.<P>She said she would call back the next night (Thurs) to talk to the youngest who had spent the night at a friends.<P>She finally calls on Tues and leaves a message. Said she tried to call on Fri but it was busy. We weren't even home! LOL. Said she would call back on Wed. She didn't. DUH!<P>So here is the plan. When/if she calls again, I'm gonna tell her I would like to see her again & sit down & talk about <B>US!</B> Everything! Except when I'm gonna divorce her.<P>I'll fly out to wherever (last I new she was in Charlotte, NC) to meet her. Don't know if she'll go for it, most likely not, but I need to assess ANYTHING I can about them, her & us.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

What a mom <P>Would it have been possible to meet the girls in a neutral place this summer and spend some time with them?<P>I know you would have made it work, even if she came around home.<P>Do your girls ever ask her to see them?<P>What a mom <P>What a dad

Chris,<P>I'm just curious about how your girls are doing. <P>My stbx only sees our 3 sons about once a month. He's seen them a total of 12 hours since April 14th. And he only lives 10 minutes away from us. <P>My oldest (almost 11) is angry at the world. I know that he's truly hurt by his father, but he reacts to everything with anger. My middle one (8) has turned into a clown but also cries alot about his dad. My youngest is 3 1/2. He just makes comments that his dad is at work. My 8 year old has even made the comment that he'd like for me to get him a step-dad so that he'll have a dad to do things with. It's heartbreaking.<P>Anyway...I was just curious.<P>Mitzi <BR>

FHL, If you recall, we drove through there in March to see her & she wasn't there. She called my cell & left a message that she wouldn't be there if we went back through there on the way home.<P>In June she did say she would come back to see the girls this summer sometime, but here it is Sept.<P>Mitzi, she hasn't seen them since May of LAST year!<P>They are doing really very, very well! A few things have helped them to cope.<BR>I talk with them about what is going on. I don't use them for support, but I let them know what my plans are and what is happening right now.<BR>I ask them how they are feeling about me & Mom without pressuring them to talk.<BR>I have kept a steady environment for them. Much easier now that school has begun again.<P>Me & the oldest were talking a few weeks ago. The subject of marriage came up somehow. I told her if Mom was still with this guy when she (my daughter) gets married & I'm paying for the wedding, he will not be there.<P>She looked at me & said, "who said Mom will be invited?" It wasn't an angry statement, just matter of fact.<P>My youngest was spending the night at her friends when Mom called. Later I went to take her some clothes and told her Mom called & said she would call back tomorrow.<P>She looked at me & said, "yeah, maybe next century."<P>They are probably hurt moreso than angry, but I'm there for them. I don't need (or want) to slam Mom, she is cutting her own throat with the kids.<P>No they don't ever ask about her. They don't want to call her or write her. They do talk to her if she calls, but it's not like, "oh goody, Mommy is calling. Let me talk to her now!"<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris,<P>I'm glad they're doing so well! <P>I talk to my kids about things that are going on too. I give them the opportunity to talk and if they want to, that's good. If they don't, I don't push it. <P>I think the thing that has made this hardest on them is, I was a SAHM until May. When I went to work, I worked anywhere from 40-60 hours a week. Since I got a promotion, it's only 40-45. It's been a really big adjustment for them to be without me a lot. Plus my shift doesn't enable me to spend much time with them during the week. I'm afraid they feel like I'm abandoning them too. But I have to work 40 hours just to pay the bills. <P>I also don't bash my stbx in front of the kids. I'm letting them form their own opinions. <P>Thanks,<BR>Mitzi

Hey Chris, I'm in Charlotte, gety a location on her and I'll let you know wher she is then you can come down and sand bag her into seeing you. Got plenty of room at the house so you have a place to crash.<P>Then again this probably is a love buster...<P>Bill

Hi chris,<P>I've asked you similar questions in the past but lets just say you and your wife meet and talk about the 2 of you - and somehow end up back together - how do you think your girls would be and at this point (getting closer to Dec, isnt that your time frame) would you still even want her? <P>I know you hear it all the time here but your girls are very lucky to have such an involved and caring dad...I'm sure what ever happens they will do fine..thanks to dad<P> Magoskid<P>

Mitzi, the absolute best thing you can do for your kids is be there for them. They may not show appreciation now but in the years ahead, you’ll definitely know you did right by them.<P><BR>Bill, don’t know if she’s still there, but if I end up going down there, before I leave I’ll get your number.<P>Mag,<P>I have spoken with the girls about the possibility of her coming back. I told them if she did, I would not let her move back into the house for at least 3 months. We have become a 3 person family now & it would take some adjustment for her to get integrated in again. They understand. They tell me they don’t know how they feel about it (totally confused?), but I believe with time they would want it.<P>Do I want her now? Tough question. I don’t believe I love her anymore. I mean I don’t even know her. The love does surely die with time. <P>I told Steve Harley that I was relying on his (and his Dad’s advice) that the love can be brought back.<P>He was the one who suggested I go see her & talk so I can at least have some idea of what is going on as I have NO idea at all.<P>She didn’t call again tonight. I asked my youngest, “if mom calls do you want to talk to her?”<BR>She said, “No. Tell her I’m in the bath. Just lie to her like she lies to you.”<BR>Had to tell her 2 wrongs don’t make a right, etc.<P>To me, divorce (by me) looks inevitable at this point but I’ll wait.<P>Tomorrow I’m off to see her parents before they go back home. Also, gonna go see Jethro Tull tomorrow night. Woohoo!<P>My last day of work is 27 Oct. Time to look for a job. My actual retirement date isn’t until 2 Jan so I’m not in dire need of a job at this point, but time to get on the ball.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> She looked at me & said, "who said Mom will be invited?" It wasn't an angry statement, just matter of fact.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don’t think Donna will truly realize what she has done until this happens... maybe not even then.<P>I know school has just started, but how are(were?) the oldest’s grades?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I told Steve Harley that I was relying on his (and his Dad’s advice) that the love can be brought back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In this case, I’m not so sure. I’m not even shure why you would WANT to at this point, but who am I to try to explain love? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He was the one who suggested I go see her & talk so I can at least have some idea of what is going on as I have NO idea at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that STILL his advice? I know you’ll be cool and calm if she DOES agree to it, with no expectations whatsoever. This will probably be the last time you see her before a mandatory court date for the divorce, right? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> She said, “No. Tell her I’m in the bath. Just lie to her like she lies to you.”<BR>Had to tell her 2 wrongs don’t make a right, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>you really are amazing, Chris... you’re raising those girls right. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Chris, <P>My admiration for you continues to grow. You're a good father and a good man. <P>SHA

It sure sounds like your kids are hurting. it also sounds as if they are losing some of their faith in relationships.<P>This will affect them as they become adults. Do not over look that they may need counseling for their pain too. A good child psychologist can make a world of difference.<P>I have used one in the past, my son had a anger problem and it was often self directed. I took him to a Dr. even though he was very young. It turned out to be a chemical imablance that occurs during growth, but the counseling REALLY brought him back to his lovable and confident self.<P>Now my son rarely has this problem, he seems to outgrow it, though he is still a perfectionist and very hard on himself! I have kept the Dr. Number, and I call and give updates now and again. It comforts ME to know that someone is there to help him if he needs it.<P>I am the beginning of my journey here, but if all fails and i get to the end of the marriage, I will not hesitate to take BOTH kids to Dr. <P>I come from a divorced family(in the 70's)and there was no support for me. I am glad that you are such a good dad, my parents just feuded with each other for years using us as weapons. I am scarred emotionally from that, and a lot of my present reactions to my H's A has to do with that time. <P>Consider it. Talk to your kids' school psychologist or advisor about what he thinks, or contact a child psych and see what he recommends. <P>It is also nice having to depend SOLEY on yourself for their emotional support. It does not leave much time for your own. I was very depressed by the time I took my S to counseling. The DR. told me to see my family DR and tell them! I wish I had listened, it was not good for my marrieage either to have me to weak. One of the causes of his distancing? Who knows. (But it was HIS choice to do this A! Bum!)

Chris you've given me some sound advice and I just have to say after reading this post I admire you even more.<P>Your girls are the luckiest. If your wife only knew what she's losing. Keep up the good work. Take care of yourself. You deserve better than this. I hope you find it. <P>------------------<BR>Lost Soulmate<P>"Character is doing what's right, when no one is looking"

Whodat, not much of an update so I didn't let you know. I wasn't ignoring you. <BR>The oldest just started 10th. Her last report card was 4-C's & 2-D's. A 1.6 gpa from a 3.9 gpa the previous 3 years.<P>I last spoke with Steve in June. Then he suggested I keep on keepin' on and see if she would meet in Sep/Oct so I could "assess" everything/anything.<P>Don't know if it's the last time I'll see her. She did say earlier in the year she would come back to see the kids, but then again she has said a lot in the last 2 years.<P>As far as court, she wouldn't have to do anything if she didn't want to. If she does not want to tell me where she is, I can't have her served. If she doesn't want to sign the papers with a waiver of service, I just advertise in the local paper. After that if she doesn't respond to the court, everything pretty much goes the way I want it to. (Hope she doesn't read this).<P>SHA, thanks. You have enough on your plate to worry about.<P>burned spouse,<BR>The kids have seen a child psychologist. Everything is as well as can be (expected).<P>I am talking to them about relationships, how they should be, how ours isn't, and how they should be handled when problems arise. I'm teaching them that divorce is not the answer to problems.<P>I have plenty of outlets for me to moan & groan. This forum, I see a psychologist once a month and I also attend a separated/divorced men's group.<P>This is nothing new for me. My wife left 17 Feb of 99. I'm okay now, worked through most of the grief, sadness and loss. Just waiting for the time to pass.<P>LSM, Yeah, they are lucky girls. As will be the person I next go out with (my current wife or otherwise). Not trying to be too pretentious, but I know what I am, what I have learned & what I have to offer someone.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris,<P>What makes you think that Donna will ever return back to "normal"?<P>I can't believe that she would ever be the same again. It sounds, and I haven't followed your story all that closely, that she went off the deep end, and can't possibly return the same, or even remotely close to it.<P>Although I commend your hope, when these people snap, unless something magical happens, the switch had been flipped and there is no turning back.<P>Although you know what you need to do, I am amazed that you think waiting more than a year, anything would change.<P>Not criticizing, just more amazement than anything else.<P>thl<P><BR>

I'm doing it because of everything I have read & people I have talked with. Frank Pittman & daughter(Private Lies) Michele Weiner-Davis (Divorce Busting) Dr Willard Harley & son Steve (Surviving An Affair).<P>They & others recommend 2 years before divorce for many reasons.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I am amazed that you think waiting more than a year, anything would change<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Most everyone here agrees with alost all the MB principles except the 2 year time frame. Everyone says wow, but when they are in it they say "NO FREAKIN WAY! He's gone for 6 months, he's never gonna change or come back."<P>Ask Lor about that.<P>Sure it's difficult, but I believe it works. For the affair to end, for healing to take place, for the betrayed to "just get over it", to move on, to look at oneself, understand what happened & how you got there and how to prevent it again.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

I understand what Burned Spouse means re: your daughters and their future relationships but I think just the opposite. I've been reading your posts for a long time and you really are an amazing dad...I would imagine them to have very high expectations for a future mate. I'm sure they are confused and hurt but they will sure know that there are good men out there, men who will be dedicated fathers, husbands. I'm sure alot of young girls with 2 parents in the home do not have a father as involved in the every day things as your girls do. Magoskid

Chris,<P>I have read Pittman's book, as it explained my behavior exactly, and I have FIXED that weakness, I have tested myself, and it works. I have many pages of that book underlined!<P>I do believe you have taken the right course of action. I too hate the thought of actually filing the papers after going through mediation and negotiating the stuff myself. It does seem so final, yet I highly doubt that my W would change, being of the mind frame she is in, but we shall see. Her last comment to me after the last mediation when I told her the kids were not doing well with me was, "I'll do whatever it takes to make it work." <P>She has so changed its unbelievable, I mean not even just fog, but freakin' driving rain and thunderstorms! after negotiating the final agreement, but not filing, and I told her we would live the agreement to be sure that's what she wants, I think I will make her file it.<P>Hey, keep up the great parenting stuff, its is hard I know to not only be the only one, but to overcome a really bad example. I too have been working my kids over to overcome the really bad examples of behavior that they exhibit. take care, I wasn't critical, just more amazed especially with her lack of respect for her kids, that I really wonder if she would ever come back.<P>Lor and Guard are a little bit different than you, although I understand the point you were tryig to make.<P>keep on going.<P>thl

Chris,<BR>Glad to hear you and your girls are doing so well. Hopefully your d's grade will pick up now that she has a year under her belt without her mother.<P>My kids haven't seemed to miss a beat. I guess I am lucky. I keep waiting for some fallout from the divorce, but there hasn't been,so far.<P>You continue to be in my prayers.<P>Bob<p>[This message has been edited by RWD (edited September 08, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR><B> Although you know what you need to do, I am amazed that you think waiting more than a year, anything would change.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>WIFTT,<P>Never doubt that things can change. My h left me for ow # 1 14 years ago. He lived with her for a year and a half. That is a long time and it's hard to have hope for that long, but I did. I heard all the usual things, including that if things didn't work out for them he still wouldn't go back with me. We are back together, have been since then. You would be surprised how things can change. <P><P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

Bozos_Deb<P>thanks, sometimes I hope that it would happen, other times I don't. I just can't imagine having hope for that long, as well as knowing that what I was living with before this started was very empty from each of our points of view.<P>I just hate it for the kids, and today was not a good day, first one in a long time.<P>thanks again