As you look back onto your discovery, do you think that you spouse’s initial reaction was in any way indicative of how difficult your recovery would be?<P>For instance, I had discovered two different affairs. W/the first, OW used one of her friends to alert me. When I confronted him, he denied the extent of the affair suggesting the old “we’re just friends.” Since OW had set up the whole thing and assumed (correctly) that I would confront him that night, she called her house that night in a panic about her H being after her. (This was all a part of the whole plot I found later) It was simply a ploy to find out from him what was going on w/he and I. He took the call and supposedly “consoled.” He left shortly thereafter to get baby some formula. What he was actually doing is going out to call her so he could talk in private. Of course he promised to end it, but it continued on for another 3 months when I finally had enough and made plans to leave. I was counseled, he refused. He is of the “let’s move on” variety and doesn’t want to deal with.<P>Discovery of second affair was when I found him pull up to her apartment late one night. I had had suspicions but he, of course, made me think I was crazy (again). Granted, they were both surprised. I walked up to his side and asked him to tell her to get out of our truck. He wouldn’t do it. She just sat there. I asked again and he just kept asking, what are you doing here. I began to walk around to her side and he jumped out of the car to “save her from me” I suppose. She took her sweet time removing herself from the car. She and I had a few words (mostly because she was in MY seat in MY space!) but my venom was reserved for him. This affair continued for 6-9(?) months after discovery.<P>I ponder this question because, particularly in my case of multiple affairs, I feel like if you feel anything toward your spouse, something inside you would somehow make you “protect” him/her when “CAUGHT” in these situations. Being caught does not necessarily guarantee that the affair will end at that moment, but does not the WS reaction to discovery indicate what he/she still feels toward spouse. <P>These were “defining moments” for me that spoke volumes about his respect for me and commitment to this marriage and recovery. I understand if the WS wants to not “hurt” OP, there is still a way to “gracefully” acknowledge the spouse. These “moments” further hinder my ability to trust him and his respect and commitment to me. <P>Thanks for reading this far. Any thoughts would be appreciated.<P>God Bless,<BR>Enlightened<BR>

When I had a discovery moment and placed a lovely call to la bimbette he cried and said "How could you hurt her!" I just asked her if she wouldn't mind leaving us to our marriage - really! That's why I'm "just the wife" I think our recovery is going along ok, but we have weird circumstances. I still flash to that moment though, and we discuss that TONS. All he says is that he doesn't know what was going through his mind.<p>[This message has been edited by justthewife (edited October 03, 2000).]

My H uses the same excuse and after learning about the "fog" here on MB, I tend to believe that. But, I just cannot reconcile within myself how, at a moment like this, he could not find a need to acknowledge my place in the situation. Well, maybe he WAS acknowledging my place; I had NONE. And THAT is what is bugging me. Watching this unfold (twice) before my eyes left a major mark on me.<P>

My H had first affair before we were married, but it still hurt because we had been dating over 2 yrs and were talking marriage. I forgave him. The second was five years into marriage. The things you describe, the lies, the cover-ups, the "fog" are just a part of it. Your H was putting her first because she was in the big fantasy world with him at that time. It is rare for them to cut it off at the moment they are caught because they have to unwind themselves from the web they are caught up in. What's important is who he turns to when reality sinks in. You BOTH have to work on rebuilding the relationship and when you decide to forgive him you let the little details of what was said and done in the past go and move forward. He has to decide to cut of contact completely. You have to decide to not keep bringing up the same details of the past. I don't know which is more difficult, but as a BS I know it feels like we are cleaning up someone elses mess.

JR61,<P>Thanks so much for your reply. The number of posters who are dealing w/multiple affairs is rather small on this board. I learn alot here but also don't want to discourage those who are dealing this for the first time(which is one reason I mostly lurk anymore).<P>By the way, H has had 3 affairs. I only discovered the 2nd and 3rd. He confessed to first after my 1st discovery. Last one ended about 2 years ago.<P>So, in my case of dealing w/multiple affairs, I can't help but try to distinguish the "fog" from what is possibly simply his nature. This is what I cannot seem to reconcile. <P>I muddled through 1st discovery basically on my own. You are right, we BOTH need to work on rebuilding. He didn't. Refused counseling, wouldn't stop until I made plans to leave, no remorse, won't discuss, etc. Even after it ended, I, unknowingly, did much of what is described as Plan A. He even told me that I was the one that saved this marriage. But even though it was my 1st discovery, I was already dealing w/more than one affair.<P>Two years into that recovery, he gets involved w/yet another woman. He plays it out much like that last time, refuse counseling, won't stop, no remorse, etc. But this time, I'm not so amiable to rebuilding. I'm still here, but I don't bend over backwards (to Plan A) like before.<P>I am essentially stuck. Afraid to move forward for fear of a repeat performance. <P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened <P>

When initially confronted about the OM, my W too gave the "old friend there to help me during my crisis" routine.<P>Since he is 42 (same age as her) and never been married (also her HS crush), I asked her why she didn't seek support from women friends who were happily married instead of this gigolo. <P>I also told her "unless he's gay, I don't know what kind of advice he could offer you."<P>She only discussed our marital "problems" with two of her girlfriends, about once per month each, but called this slug 20 times per month or more.<P>Liar, liar pants on fire!!!

I don't know about you, but I've grown to despise the "just friends" excuse.<P>It's strange how these "just friends" are never known to the BS. Why are they secret friends that the BS happens to find out about. I would think a "friend" is someone that spouse knows about, have met, spouse talks about, etc, not some surprise relationship that WS has been having.<P>Maybe my definition of "friend" is more narrow than most.<P>God Bless,<BR>Enlightened<BR>

Enlightened,<P>I had one discovery ten months ago, but there were two affairs in 18 months: six months, a little break, then 3 months.<P>My entire life since discovery has been about my marriage. In that, I too am stuck.<P>I think my h has issues that I can help with (he is confiding a lot these days), but he must deal with them. I have told him I will not forgive again. There is a small doubt in my mind whether I would actually stick to that.<P>I totally agree about friends. I cannot go on with this man without total honesty.<P>Personally, I think you are entirely right about your conclusions and his actions.<P>How can you trust him? Trust has to be earned. The betrayal is so painful and will always be there if we rebuild. But I am willing to live with that if I can find healing and IF he becomes the man I need.<P>Why else would you put yourself through that? You have so much value as a woman. Why would you sell yourself short???

Thanks for your reply Schizzo.<P>Dealing w/the first discovery is difficult enough, but to go through rebuilding (albeit, one-sided) only to have the trust broken, yet again is devastating. Yet, to me, devastating in a different way.<P>First time I had more sorrow and willingness to "fix" myself for him... ie. meet his every need. Look what that got me. This is why I question, in his case, the "fog" vs. the reality.<P>You see, I've put the things that go w/most any affair (lies, secret meetings, money spent, etc.) in my little box and actually can reconcile that as it comes w/the "affair" territory. But its these "defining moments" that I cannot reconcile. When the fog meets reality, how did he respond?<P>I realize that I cannot control/nor change his behavior and this is why rule of honesty and POJA is so vital. We have struggled throughout our marriage w/these two issues. I tell him that these moments (and there are many other than those I listed)during the affair simply magnified what was already there. Its like my wake-up call... HELLO, HE HAS NO RESPECT FOR YOU!!!<P>Too bad it took his having 3 affairs for me to realize this.<P>God Bless<BR>Enlightened<P>

I know what you mean. He has had no respect for me for years. It is only because he is really changing that I am willing to rebuild. Maybe you would find this article helpful, I did!<BR> <A HREF="http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb001/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/cb001/</A>

Thanks Schizzo.<P>You posted that site for someone else the other day and I have bookmarked it for me to read later.<P>

I am sorry your H won't go to counseling. I think that is crucial in a repeat offender like our H's. We can only forgive so much, but if it keeps happening you get the feeling that their apologies were not sincere. Has he read the info on MB site with you or any of the books mentioned here? My H only went to counseling with me a few times and we had a blow-up there once and didn't go back. I regret that. I hope he got enough benefit that he understands what gets him into those situations and how to avoid them. Time will tell. Hope your H comes around. If he could get the concept of the emotional bank account he would understand that even taking a little initiative would heap huge deposits.

When I was in counseling alone, he was invited to attend both individual and couple. He said he didn't see the need for it. Yet, after each of my sessions, he wanted all the details. After awhile, I guess he felt threatened and told me to tell counselor that I won't be needing her services anymore, that he would "take care of me." Yeah, right! He really doesn't get it.<P>I have loads of books, articles, etc. on the subject but he won't read them. He has only read a christian pamphlet on commitment and Harley's article on "The Walk-Away Wife" The Harley article got his attention and he agreed to do the EN questionnaire.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Enlightened (edited October 06, 2000).]