I hesitated to respond and am hoping that doing so doesn’t jinx the progress my W and I have going. Yea, this thread is pretty scary. But I think there can be just one. My W and I were married for 12 years when a high school boyfriend looked her up and then began pursuing her. They ended up with a pretty significant EA and PA. After on and off for about a year, we separated. Soon after that, he broke it off – got cold feet with my W now ready to get on with things. The A did continue though but he made it clear that his family meant too much to commit to anything with my W. My W and I have seen several counselors over the last 1.5 years. She is a very devoted mother and pretty devoted Christian. Many of our friends sided with me and put her out. She has really seen how selfish it all was and feels somewhat used and taken advantage. I have had some anger and depression but I have pretty much been here for her all through it all. We made plans for her to come home a month ago and since then we have been spending weekends together as a family. She has been in withdrawal for about 3 months but that is getting better now and we are all just looking forward to her coming back. I guess most of this was unnecessary to answer the question but I guess my point is that there are a lot of factors that determine whether the sin will be repeated. I think my wife now views the affair as something so awful that she would never want to repeat it. She now sees it was not worth all what she put me, our girls, our friendships, and our families through. I don’t think she would ever do it again – I sure hope I’m right. <BR>Sailor<BR>

He said after the first one nighter it got easier, he figured he already messed up so it didn't matter anymore. He thought wrong. He had one nighters, hookers, a girlfriend, "exotic private dances" (sex) and all sorts. I think I know enough of the truth to not want to know any more. If it happens again I just can't do this anymore.

Who's to say?<P>My husband and I were BOTH in the military--he went overseas for the entire summer, every summer that we were married. I was gone to JRTC (Ft Polk) at least a month every winter. It was very hard. I spent at least a week every month in the field. So did he.<P>For a while, I was the only female soldier in a platoon of thirty. There was no temptation on my part. Not even on those long lonely trips to Korea where there is nothing to do off-duty but party, I was good and stayed in the barracks. Could never imagined that he was not doing the same thing. I had nothing but absolute trust, even though this was not reciprocated.<P>I look back, and I don't know now. It was so very easy for him to cheat, obviously, so what's to say this is not the first time (I have a little bit of evidence that proves it is not, in fact.) <P>I don't think that I WANT to know. What would it do to investigate but make things worse? Anyway, the point is moot now.<P>What goes TDY stays TDY, huh?

I don't know what to say to you guys about reoccurence. Altho I've experienced it twice in my marriage, I certainly don't consider myself an expert.<P>It is "scary" ... simply because I chose to ignore experts telling me that once someone cheats, there are tendencies to cheat again.<P>It all depends on the people involved and their willingness to truly recover and commit to the marriage ... but I'll tell you ... I'm no dummy and I'm not completely blind when it comes to my H ... and the first time he cheated he begged and promised and cried harder than I've ever seen him cry, he said he'd sign a contract saying he'd never cheat again (ridiculous, I know) but that's how sincere he seemed.<P>Fast forward 8+ years later and he did it again .... identical in every single way. What a Ground Hog Day nightmare. I felt like the biggest fool for taking him back, I never in a million years would have thought he'd do it again. He was 100% comiitted to US, or so I thought. He touted all the time "I love being married" ... but to be fare ... I see now I was not keeping a close eye on the marriage, I started to relax into it and enjoying it .... then BOOM!!!! here we are again. Who wants to be in a marriage where you have to always keep on your guard, not I.<P>I'm sorry for sounding so cynical ... I'm in a mood this evening. But I am telling it like it is.<P>Prayers, lots of prayers too!<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited October 07, 2000).]

Jo:<P>We have an OC situation, too. <P>After 18 years, my husband had an affair that lasted three weekends and the results produced a child, now just over a year old.<P>The horrific fallout from what has happened to us over the past two years has had a significant impact on my husband. He calls it "aversion therapy" and his remorse and regret is profound, his embarrassment and humilation...well, suffice it to say I honestly cannot see how he could even consider doing anything like this ever again...HOWEVER, never say never.<P>I see a lot of the same behaviors that alarm me; lying, complacency and self-absorption. with those kind of defects of character, it is very possible he could do something again. I am hoping now that he is past fifty, he's pretty much run out of gas and hope his medication keeps him lucid. As lucid as my husband can be, that is.<P>Jo, I aprreciate this thread because this is something I haven't addressed yet and it is something we should all consider. I hate to get surprised and sucker-punched when I least expect it...but, like you, I sure don't want to have to be on guard all the time.<P>Catnip =^^=

After 10 years together (8 married now), my wife's current affair is her first and I have never betrayed her. Now that we are going on more than a year of PA/EA, I often think about all times I prayed she could find her way home. This thread made me think of the lyrics to a song by Garth Brooks called Unanswered Payers (below).<P>Just the other night a hometown football game <BR>My wife and I ran into my old high school flame <BR>And as I introduced them the past came back to me <BR>And I couldn't help but think of the way things used to be <P>She was the one that I'd wanted for all times <BR>And each night I'd spend prayin' that God would make her mine <BR>And if he'd only grant me this wish I wished back then <BR>I'd never ask for anything again <P>Sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers <BR>Remember when you're talkin' to the man upstairs <BR>That just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean he don't care <BR>Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers <P>She wasn't quite the angel that I remembered in my dreams <BR>And I could tell that time had changed me in her eyes too it seemed <BR>We tried to talk about the old days; there wasn't much we could recall <BR>I guess the Lord knows what he's doin' after all <P>And as she walked away and I looked at my wife <BR>And then and there I thanked the good Lord <BR>For the gifts in my life <P>Sometimes I thank God for unanswered prayers <BR>Remember when you're talkin' to the man upstairs <BR>That just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean he don't care <BR>Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers <P>Some of God's greatest gifts are all too often unanswered... <BR>Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers <P><BR>These days I only pray for our own peace.<BR>

I have something else to say on this thread... after the first occurence of an A ... and now dealing with this one, my H acts like I should be use to it, he has said things like "well, you know what I'm like ... you know what to expect ... you've been here with me before ... so it's not like you don't know me" and then when being harrassed by OW (aka abusive banshee) he has said "it's just that she's (OW) angry ... you can handle it .. you've been thru this before, c'mon it's not that bad ... you're making it more than it is".<P>So guys, I see that he thinks because he's done this before that it's okay to do it to me again ... afterall I did let him back into my life and so I deserve it. I really think he thinks this way. Like I'm willing to take anything ... it's the norm ...NOT!!!<P>All this stuff about being forgiving and seeing BS as only humans that make human mistakes, and turning your cheek only to get slapped on the other is what I did try. I felt LOVE and understanding and forgiveness would be the ticket for us. But I guess I was very wrong.<P>I'm starting to cry now, so signing off for a bit.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited October 08, 2000).]

Want to reiterate Jo's statement that "It all depends on the people involved and their willingness to truly recover and commit to the marriage..." <P>I believe that statement says it all in my case. I've come to realize that my H has some "issues" that he either does not recognize or recognizes but chooses to not deal with. Ultimately, this affects his "willingness" to truly recover and commit.<P>As I reflect back over the last two years on "how did this happen again?", it becomes clear to me that there was only so much that I, alone, could do to "keep" this marriage. It is so true that one person can "save" the marriage (Plan A, etc.), but it takes two to "keep" it.<P>I posted last week about "WS reaction to discovery" to explore the fog vs. reality reations. I've learned a lot about the "fog" here on these boards, but as I gain more knowledge, I am still not able to reconcile that his actions were due to the fog. Maybe I'm just stubborn or have unrealistic expectations, but some things just didn't have to happen the way that they did. And it is those "defining moments" that lead me to conclude that my H has individual issues and general lack of respect for me and this marriage, thus, his ability to cheat again and again.

Resilant,<P>I don't think any of us could ever "get used to" this kind of behaivor. We live with it and deal with it and after reading this thread I personally will "fear it" happening again. It is such a vicious cycle to be caught in and one where I feel boxed in. It is amazing at how overwhelmingly the response has been here to multiple cheating

second, third, fourth.....<BR>Keep counting.

Regretfully, I am a member of the oft-betrayed club.<P>Only one PA. I think.<P>Lots of detailed internet sex. I mean, WAY detailed. Promises of love. <P>Lots of "they didn't mean anything...I told them what they wanted to hear...I only love you..." I wonder why he thinks I should believe that he loves me and doesn't love them.<P>Right now I am doing some deep soul searching, asking myself if I should stay on this board or move over to Divorced/Divorcing and end this stupid marriage.<P>But this time he swears he'll go to counseling...<P>We'll see.<P>Good luck to you, Jeremy. --HBC

I'm curious as to why some of you stay after 3 and 4 times being cheated on

Jeremy,<P>I have dealt with two affairs. The second was full steam ahead when I found out about the first one.<P>My H had a brief EA with a 27 year old (he was 51), friend of our daughter's!!! He enjoyed the company of this person and she made him feel young and excited again. Nothing physical ever became of this A, however, I feel it gave him the courage and confidence he needed to persue the second woman, who was closer to my age.<P>She paid him the right amount of attention at just the right time in his life. She is a professional flirt, on the move (coming to your town soon).<P>What blows me away is that when I confronted him with the EA evidence, he never once admitted he was deeply involved in a second EA/PA. I think I accepted the EA too easily and we swept it under the rug too soon. He more than likely thought I would do the same again or, idiots that they were, thought they wouldn't get caught!!!!<P>I'm not quite sure how long the EA lasted, maybe 6 months or so, but there were always other people around them and I think that is the reason it never quite got off the ground.<P>The EA/PA was much more involved. It lasted 11 months before D-day and four months after. Then withdrawal for 4 months before he finally made a comittment to me to help restore our marriage. Total months 19. We have been rebuilding for 8 months to date.<P>I don't know if I will ever truly trust him again. It is a very difficult issue. My h is trying so hard to prove to me his comittment and is doing a wonderful job. I am the one who has periods of withdrawal now, and it really troubles him.<P>Good luck Jeremy and everyone on this path to understanding.<P>Cathy<P>

Jeremy, <P>I have already decided I will never stay or take him back if it happens the third time. Never, never, never.... My mama didn't raise no fool! Plus I have learned through this experience that I will be ok, I have value and worth and I don't need an unfaithful person to make me feel otherwise. I can be happy on my own. Plain and simple!!!<P>Cathy

Good follow-up question Jeremy.<P>For me, it has more to do w/the number of discoveries vs. the number of affairs. Remember, I discovered what was his second affair. H confessed to first affair after discovery of second. So, while he had already had two, I was dealing w/the discovery/recovery of them both @ the same time. Second discovery (3rd affair) came a few years later.<P>It doesn't make it necessarily easier, but it does have an impact on the ultimate actions taken by the betrayed spouse. So, while we have dealt w/recovery twice, I do not excuse that fact that he has had three affairs.<P>I am here now because my circumstances do not allow me to leave on my terms (and he does not want to go, never did). I discovered this last affair, a couple of months after I chose to quit working to both spend more time w/kids and return to school. Our family had been relocated here less than a year when H started last affair. Both of our jobs required travel and the kids went nuts. I quit working to stabilize my family life. Shortly thereafter, I took opportunity to return to school. <P>So, no unfortunately, I don't stay because I love him and believe we can conquer this. I stay because I have not been able to go the way I want to go w/my sanity, well-adjusted kids, a new degree, secure job and THIS house.<P>God Bless,<BR>Enlightened

H had one when we were seriously dating, talking about marriage. We talked that one out. Second was after 5 yrs married. Hope there were no others. I asked him after 2nd if there was anything else to be discovered, as in any other A's. Hopefully we got enough from MB site and counseling to guard against another. Like Catplay, after living on my own for awhile after A, he and I both know I could make it without him. Don't want to ever go through it again and wouldn't wish it on anybody.

As far as I know there has only been one affair, I would not tolerate a 2nd, and it's pretty sad that I even have to preface my statement with "as far as I know" <P>My W would have to be totally crazy and insane to have another one, considering what happened to her the night of discovery. I totally lost my mind and did things and said things to my W that I would never have imagined myself doing or saying. I could have literally been arrested that night. My W saw a side of me that I didn't even know existed, she was in total terror for hours, and I was prepared to spend the rest of my life in prison. <P>Do I think she would have another affair, I have no idea, I no longer put anything past her, but there is a constant reminder of the night of discovery and what I am capable of doing right above our bed. I know threats really don't mean anything and are viewed as a LB, but the statement that I would kill her if she ever cheated on me is more of a <B>guarantee</B> rather than a threat, and I do believe she knows that. I believe that she now knows that if she is that unhappy being married to me, that getting a divorce and leaving me is her best option, an option that would be painful to all concerned, but a much safer option nonetheless.<P>No I am not proud of my actions that particular night, actions that will probably leave as much of a scar as the affair, but to say that I could <B>never</B> do anything like that again would be a lie, a lie to both my wife and myself.

FA,<BR>I too, was a total maniac on the morning of discovery. We do tend to respond in ways that can really scare us!<P>I said and did things so out of character for myself, and I'm sure the damage I did that day is irrepairable. Or to say the least, behavior my H will never forget.<P>The really sad part about my losing my soul, my religion, my everything... OW was not affected one ioda by watching me lose it that day. As a matter of fact, I think she fed on it, gave her a real ego boost. She was so calm and cool and just strolled off to get in her car. She walks away from the bad nightmare and still continued to persue my H. I will find it very difficult to ever forgive her. She has to this day not been exposed for her actions.<P>That is why I say I will never go through this again. When you experience emotional devastation on this level, you will avoid it again at all costs. You can't believe, even seeing it with your own eyes, how your S could possibly say they are in love with someone who is so cold, selfish and calloused. Someone who clearly knows they are destroying a family and another woman, and they have no conscience about it at all. It's beyond me to understand the nature of human beings.<P>I have assured myself that I will never expose my inner being to anyone else on this level ever again. I don't need it and I don't deserve it. I hope she rots and burns in HELL.<P>Until they walk in our shoes and experience this pain first hand, don't worry about what you said and did. As they are in a fog at that time, no one can even begin to label what we are in at that time. It's ok...<BR>it's a natural instinct to respond the way we do.<P>Cathy<BR>

Hi Jeremy,<P>I don't know if most people know "why" they stay with a cheating spouse.<P>I certainly didn't want this "crappola" in my life. I mean, I told myself over and over "THIS isn't my life".<P>I think the first time, you are so totally in shock and devistated in disbelief that when they come back and beg and cry and promise, you are open to recovery.<P>Then the second time you again are in shock but this time it's a familiar shock, but you still deal with disbelief. During the second occurence you're not as open to listening to their reasons or justifications ... you also are not as open to hearing them tell you their sorry for hurting you. My belief of someone saying they're sorry means they will not do whatever it was that hurt you again.<P>I also think ppl, myself included, stay because they feel they made vows for better or worse. For me that means being there for my H when he needs me, and when they go thru this "thing" they are not themselves, they cause everyone around them pain including themselves, and I wanted to be there for him when he finally hit bottom. But now my vows to my marriage and my H don't seem to weigh on me as much as they did the first time, I still want to honor them, but it isn't easy. I'm damn lonely and I'm really hurt by what he's done AGAIN!<P>Jo

Hi everyone,<BR>As far as I know,the latest A was the 3rd in our married life. Even when we were engaged to be married, there were 1 night stands as he was in the Navy and going on leave in Europe and having a ball. No pun intended. LOL<BR>I thought it was sowing wild oats - that was my mind set at the time. However looking back, I should have seen the writing on the wall. I guess I thought my love and devotion would be enough for him and according to the Doris Day/Rock Hudson movies,we should have lived happily ever after. What a joke that was!!!!<BR>I'm feeling kinda blue today - just found out that I need more surgery and I'm feeling a little sorry for myself.<BR>Thanks for listening.<BR>Ronnie