<BR> H loves me more when I don't show him love, and hurts me more when I do show him love.<P> When I first got married my H knew that I loved him, but wasn't *in* love , but he was convienced that one day I would be, and promised the *waiting* would be worth it. And he was right. The days before falling in love were heaven; he made me feel like there was nobody else in the world, and what problems we did run into, were easily reconciled.<BR> But then the nightmare; 5/6 years into our marriage it hit me, I had fallen *in* love, and it felt great! I couldn't wait until he came home to tell him how good this felt. I was finally able to return what he had been giving me all this time, and totally *share* my life with him. But a week later, he threw me for a loop. To this day he denies anything about an affair, but in my heart I feel that something was going on; he began lieing, and blaming me for the lies. Trashing me in every step of my life and our marriage. Emotionally and sexually abusing me. etc...<P> To make a long story short, from the day I told him about being in love with him, until today, it seems like everytime I try to get close to him, and share anything beyond friendship and sex, he either withdraws or treats me badly.<P> He makes comments about how he misses our intimacy, how we live like room-mates, and how he hopes the day will come when we can be one again. But I wonder if he really wants, or can even grasp the idea of being loved. I've pointed this out to him many times, and even suggested that if the *way* I love him isn't comfortable to him, then maybe he should consider finding someone else. But he doesn't believe what I've been living, and insists that there is no reason to get a divorce.<P> I want to be close to the person that I'm married to, and sometimes i feel bad about our distance, because I know that some of it is due to my fear of getting *too* close to him again. Afraid of being hurt by him as he hurt me in the past. But how am I suppose to get totally over it, if he doesn't always want me as close as I'd like to be.<P> I'm not sure if this is making sense to anybody else...sometimes it doesn't even make sense to me. But I guess what I'm asking is, is it possible to not *want* to be loved by somebody you claim to love?<P> H loves me more when I don't show him love, and hurts me more when I do show him love.<P> If anybody else is living this, how are you dealing with it? Laurah<P>

I'm not an expert, but this seems all to common. One spouse wanting more affection than the other, emotional needs not being met, etc. In my humble opinion, you two need to communicate more about what your needs are, and maybe a book like His Needs/Her Needs might help you both. Depends on whether your husband will get involved in something like this. Alternatively, counselling might help.<P>Too many couples don't get the most out of their relationship, and I'm one that wasn't, and it was both of our faults, but now she found someone else and wants to leave. In your case, you know there are problems early enough and have made a first step. That is good. Read about emotional needs (EN) on this site if you haven't. Do you do things together, like a sport, go to movies, just dating style stuff? Do you surprise each other every now and then? Ask him what he needs and wants, and be open to hearing anything. I didn't say enough and too often just swept things under the carpet that bothered me. Get things out in the open. You'll probably get better advice, but this is just my babbling 2 cents worth. I wish you the best. Bottom line....as you can see on this website, marriages that seems hopeless can get better, so for sure yours can.

Hi Laurah! Fancy meeting you here. I hardly ever come to GQ any more. Your topic is a major concern of mine too. I took a lot of heat on the EN board for describing both my first husband and my present H as being more hostile to me the more sex we had. I stand by that observation. <P>Here is my take on my situation. You can apply it as you see fit to your own.<P>Having more SF, affection etc. fuels the sense of <B>entitlement</B> in their Taker. Also, if there was deprivation, for whatever reason, they suddenly allow their <B>expectations</B> to soar and when I was not simultaneously perfect in meeting all expectations (such as domestic support or whatever) they felt justified in love busting all over me more than ever. Being normal and human (i.e. immature), and me not knowing MB concepts as such, we failed to communicate properly to improve things. <P>The flip side is harder to explain. Why are they so loving when I don't go out of my way to make them happy with loving behavior? One key might be that I had their EN's guessed wrong. So they were deep in deprivation and I didn't know it. Things really perked up around here when I learned that one of my H's top needs is Domestic Support and his love language is Acts of Service.<P>But anyway, sudden change in more SF has been the best predictor of future abuse in my marriages.<P>The best system I know for changing the dynamic is in practicing the Four Rules, especially in NOT committing LB's. Next most important factor is standing up for yourself and refusing to tolerate intolerable behavior. Actually, that is part of POJA, the Policy of Joint Agreement. Do not violate your own integrity with misguided sacrifice. If he sees that as LB'ing, too bad. Maybe he can negotiate.<P>If you are practicing a good Plan A with the proper emphasis on becoming the best person and spouse YOU can be, you will soon develop the skills to hold your own in a discussion without engaging in anger or hostility. This will rapidly lead to improvement in your marriage. It sure did in mine.<P>Making your marriage functional only takes one to start the process. If he can't tolerate your growing up emotionally, he might eventually leave. But that would be his fault, his choice, and his loss. Far more likely is that he will step in and follow you in an emotional growth process.<P>Good luck!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited October 08, 2000).]

Rick37,<BR> This is my 3rd attempt at trying to get back to you....I get my reply typed out, click Submit, and it has vanished It's about as hard to figure out as my H is right now I don't get much time on the pc, so this is getting frustrating.<P> First let me start by saying how sorry I am for what you are going through....The pain is real no matter what side of the fence you are on. Second let me say that I appreciated your "2 cents worth". It felt good , even if you are a complete stranger.<BR>Just the idea that you took the time to reach out to shed some light my way, when in fact you are going through your own hard times.<P> To answer your questions...counceling and self help books; at H's request years ago, we began the counceling. He needed to do something to control his anger, and it turned into therapy for our marriage. Books...You name it, it is probabaly on my shelf. Not only read, but dog-eared to the point where they take up double their original space. We both have read them, and it helped, but it's like he has forgotten all of the work we have put into our marriage, because he is once again showing signs of his past hateful, selfish behavior.<BR>(we have been fighting for the past 3 days, and it feels too uncomfortably familiar).<P> The fight basically began because I tried telling him that I miss *us*, and what we are suppose to be about. That I needed his help in getting close to him, if indeed that is what he wants. He once again told me how it's all my fault, without specifics...he once again felt the need to hit below the belt, and add insult to injury. The list goes on......And his response to my wondering why he was getting so defensive....I forgot to say "can we talk", before initiating the conversation. <P> We get every friday to ourselves, and have for the past 13 years. ( my mom takes our kids so they can all bond, and my husband and I can be together). I'm not looking forward to this friday, but usually I enjoy the time together. It's also sad, because sometimes I just feel like extra baggage, hanging around just in case he needs me. Being careful not to show too much, it may scare him away,... afraid of not showing enough because he'll be hurt. Either way, i pay the price.<P> Aside from our friday nights, if he's not on the computer playing the pre installed games, he's being my shadow. Not actually contributing, just there <P> Anyway, I could go on clicking forever, due to being lonely and confused, but I'll be nice and sign off. Wishing you the best, and appreciating your input. Thanks again, Laurah<P>

Karenna,<P> If I understand you right, I'm behind you all the way And what a relief to not feel crazy afterall.<P> I, at times,feel his alter ego growing with each verbal push and shove he gives me. I feel his superior behavior getting charged when I say I want to be close. <P> I also have a feeling that his behavior is also hurting him, deep in a place that he only opens up to me when I say "enough"! "I can't do this anymore, I want out!"<P> By the way I am also a co-dependent, but not in the *needy* sense, and he knows this. So he knows that he really pushed too hard if I'm saying "enough!" And guess what, he wakes up, and *trys* to understand how I've been feeling. Rather than continuing to hurt me more. (sometimes he goes too far, and basically kisses my a**, in an attempted to make up for the hurt that is in the air...but that is just as irritating as having all the blame dumped in my lap without some form of specifics).<P> I *know* that I am not perfect, and sometimes do my share of damage to our marriage. But when I try to apologise, or talk to him about what I feel I've done wrong, he tells me that he doesn't see where I've done anything wrong. That does not build my ego, nor make me feel like saying "thanks for your honesty"...in fact it has just the opposite affect. Which all in turn, keeps the distance between us.<P> However, I must add, If H is in a bad mood for whatever reason, I get to hear all about my bad ways. I'm not blind, and can handle an insult without getting defensive, but when he gets in that green flag area, and starts telling me that I've done this and that....I get lost. I don't know who he is talking about, but very few of his words are in refrence to me. And sometimes, when he calms down, he'll even say how it was all a lie. <P> He was raised to believe that you do *anything* to win a fight And if he's hurting, there is fighten double sad.<P> I do my best at following the plans. But it eventually goes back to...being manipulated by H. I love him, so I want to make him happy. I love him, and i want to keep the *peace*. I love him and want to be able to express my love without getting punished for it. He claims he loves me, and I just want to feel it. blah, blah, blah...self pity party for Laurah <P> I have taken quite a few stands in the past few years when his alter ego starts shinning through, but I always end up feeling selfish. As though I'm *suppose* to just sit there and be treated in any fashion my husband sees fit at any given moment.<P> I have ignored his mean ways, and pretended that he wasn't hurting me. I have been the first to initate giving him what I know makes him happy, figuring *somebody needs to go first*. I have tried so many different things....and each time it gets thrown in my face, as though I've done something wrong.<BR>I have even found myself asking for forgivness, for something that he has done to me, because he convienced me that I deserved it. (he called me a "slut", during one of my attempts to be close...knowing that i was 34 at the time, and had only been with one other person besides him. And I actually apologised for not being inhibited one night in bed.) Ironic!<P> Anyway, blah, blah, blah...my fingers want to keep clicking, because my brain is saying...."the more you write, the better i will understand", (H and I got into a bad argument lastnight). But the fact is, I'm just clicking away, making very little sense, if any at all. And I shouldn't take up this much of your time.<P> Thanks for all of your advice and insight....*again*, Laurah<P> Have a beautiful day