A man I know was telling me about the end of his fifteen year marriage. It answered a lot of questions for me.<P>He loves onions in his food. Wanted them in just about everything. He worked hard all of his life, took care of his family, while his wife took care of the house, the kids, the meals ect. For fifteen years she never cooked a meal with onions in it. She didn't like onions, and the kids didn't like onions. This small factor started hurting him more and more each day, each month, each year. He began to give up. Began to realize that he was never going to be first. He shut down. His wife saw this and panicked. <P>All of a sudden there were onions in everything he sat down to eat. The kids didn't like this, so the wife said to them, "your father likes onions in his food...deal with it". She tried hard to please him after she saw the damage...but too much damage had been done through too many years. He finally told her that if he had heard her tell the kids to deal with it years ago he would have never left...but now he needed to.<P>They divorced, she still loves him, he will never look back.<P>It was just too late...the damage had been done.<P>I believe in MB, I believe in Plan A, Plan B. But the above story made it clear to me that sometimes you can't heal years of hurt.<P>allison<P>

There would be something seriously wrong with a man who felt like he was in competition with his children. Or with someone who wanted "onions" in everything when he knew it would make his wife and kids miserable. Or who wasn't bright enough to come up with a compromise that would keep everyone relatively content.

Allison,<P>Hard not to put our own expeiance ito this story. But I just have to wonder if he ever asked for onions on the side or cooked a meal himself or even mentioned that he was missing onions. Seems like it is easy to build up resentment over little issues that if they were discussed maybe could be solved quite easily. I mean I really doubt that his wife was denying him onions because she didnt love him. Then when she tried to do something it was to little too late, well, if it was discussed for years maybe that true, otherwise maybe it was just discussed to late.<BR>Lora

The first MB point is clear...<BR>...the man's emotional needs were not met!<BR>...resulting in a loss in his love bank<BR>...and the demise of his marriage.<P>NOW...<P>The second point unfortunately gets obscured...<BR>...the man's relationship with God... was never there!<P>...his EN filled in for what should have been the most important relationship...<BR>...and became his new God.<P>...it's sad... tragic in fact... <P>Maybe the real message is ...<BR>...help build your spouses relationship with God before any other...<P>...onions don't make good spouses!<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 16, 2000).]

Allison<P>Is this a trus story? This sounds a little likd H. He wanted certain things, but never had the nerve t wxpress them. Even though it was too late for that marriage, it is because the man never really wanted to save his marriage. He just wanted a way out because he could not face up to the fact with work and focus, he could redevelope a new relationship with his wife that made him feel like number one. He gave up, and it was his own fault. Not hers. <P>Sometimes I feel that is exactly where I am...with H. It feels too late because he has not desire at all to even look at me as a woman, or pal. Not a thing. But he tries. Love stinks sometimes.<P>PS: I lost your number and do not know what city you are actually in to call information. Send it to my email again!! My kids finally cleaned up and your number must have ended up in the trash!

Yes, this is a true story...but you are right, it's not about onions.<P>I do not know the wife in this situation, just the man. I know he did indeed ask over and over again for onions...replace the word onion with just about any other and you have your own individual stories. I'm sure she also asked for things over the years that she never got. I did not print this story to blame the wife...I am a wife that was left in the dark for years about how my husband felt. I wrote it because it helped me understand why my Plan A did not work. Maybe it wasn't onions for my husband, but the damage had been done I guess.<P>Jim, if I (and anyone here) had been able to lead our spouses toward the Lord we would not be in such dire situations here.<P>May I tell another little story. A woman I know very well, one of the few truly "Christian" women I have ever known fell prey to a man that told her all the things she needed to hear from her husband of 25 years, but didn't. She got ready to leave her husband and three boys. Got charge cards in her name only, hid money away, did whatever she needed to do to escape. <P>At the last minute (literally) she got down on her hands and knees and prayed to God to stop her from destroying her family. She re-dedicated herself to her Lord and her husband. She and her husband get weekly counseling (Dr. Dobson's methods), are involved heavily in bible studies, and are learning to laugh again. I asked her yesterday if she still has thoughts of OM...she said yes, daily, hourly, though it had been 6 months since she last saw him. She said she does not have the "in love" feelings for her husband, but continues to pray for them every day.<P>I DO NOT!!! want to post discouraging things here...I am just trying to make sense of it all like the rest of you. It just seems to me now like the road back is full of bumps. I wish I could have led my H to God...because I couldn't have survived all of this without Him...but I can't...only they can.<P>allison

You've described my marriage beautifully Allison, except it's dishes instead of onions around here. After 13 years of marriage, my H finally started pulling his weight in the kitchen. It's too little too late. I do appreciate the effort he's making. It means a lot. I tend to think of the dishes symbolically. They symbolize my needs which have been unmet. <P>When I move out on Monday, my H will undoubtedly think I'm ungrateful for the efforts he's making in honoring my needs. After all, he's giving me something I wanted for 13 years. The problem is applying a literal interpretation to a symbolic message. I have things besides household chores on my list of needs, just as your friend needed a whole lot more from his wife than onions. Dishes and onions are not the stuff marriages are made of. They're just symbols of greater needs which the marriage isn't fulfilling. <P>Speaking of unfulfilling marriages, mine is about to be turned inside out. Allison, you've kept yourself going under difficult circumstances. I hope you can pop over to emotional needs and give me a hand with my "emotional boot camp 101" thread. It's my last ditch effort to avoid the same fate as the onion man.

allison<P>your onion story is/was my marriage. my h can't get past the anger he has towards me. not that i did any big thing wrong just little things, from the outside we looked like the perfect family, but we weren't at least not for him. i don't think my h can ever forgive me for leaving him open to temptation, & now of course he loves the OW too much to ever give her up. he says he has tried & always failed. But for now I still have some hope. <P>I liked both of your stories.

Allison...<P>Please don't feel I meant to attack you...<BR>...or any other faithful spouse(FS)...<BR>...for not leading their WS to truth.<P>I know from first hand experience...<BR>...you cannot be held accountable for your spouses rejection of the Lord.<P>And if I spend all my time blaming myself for it...<BR>...I'll be hurting myself... my kids... and my family and friends.<P>I don't blame myself anymore!<P>There is only one person who can really start, keep, and improve <B>a relationship with God</B>... <I>and it doesn't go through a spouse</I>... it has to go through <B><I>self</I></B>!<P>But... I still pray...<BR>... yes I do.. for my wife... that someday she will see the errors in way.<BR>...and it is only through prayer... that I can lead her anywhere...<BR>...and if she doesn't not follow...<BR>...it is not under my control.<P>My personal work in <B>my</B> Plan A... and <B>my</B> soon to be Plan B...<BR>...isn't necessarily making me just be better for my spouse (present or future)...<BR>...but making me better for everyone around me...<BR>...and helping build my relationship with God. (It has!)<P>...and most of all setting my priorites straight... on which is the more important relationship.<P>Please... Allison... again...<BR>...I didn't mean to... in anyway... hurt you or blame you.<P>I love you...<BR>...and appreciate all the help you've given so many on these forums.<P> <P>Jim

Allison, I really had to comment on the onion story. For me, it is just the opposite. My H hated onions for the past 13 years. I could NEVER make anything with onions and either NEVER did or made onions on the side...as in potato salad. Every time he changed his dietary habits...which was often...no meat...all protein....etc. etc. I obliged. <P>ANd guess what... now he eats onions all the time. <P>I guess i have to agree with Jim... We are created with an empty place that hopefully directs us to the "right" things.. HP..God...<P>If we don't we keep trying to fill up those empty places with things like onions!!!<P>Sorry, the onions just hit a "hot spot" for me.

The onion story is about all of us. And it is also about the selfishness of a man who refuses to attempt to reconcile with a woman who did not understand the importance of his needs. The "in love" feelings went away. What will fill his empty places? Instead of running from a marriage devoid of onions, he should have been finding a way to fill it with something else. He should have concentrated on what other good things his relationship had, instead of remembering only that he didn't get his onions.<P>While it is a very clear illustration of how important the little things can be, it is also a clear illustration of how petty can be the reasons for leaving a marriage. Frankly, it only makes me frustrated that people will actually accept that as a legitimate reason to break up a family.<P>Nothing against you, alison, but that story sounds similar to the justification that many WS's use for why they had the affair and why they cannot re commit to the marriage. In my case it was housekeeping... it's all B.S., IMNSHO. While we should certainly pay attention to the needs of our spouses, and we should certainly meet those needs, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that in year 1 of their marriage, the man would not have placed onions in his food as one of his top ten emotional needs. Matter of fact, I'll bet he wouldn't have placed them up there in year 10 of his marriage.<P>It isn't onions, it's communication. Or lack of. On both their parts. He will be sad and sorry in the near future. Something will be missing from his next relationship - maybe garlic this time...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Great story, Allison. I think it applies to all of our situations. <P>In my case, the onions can be replaced with "that special something..." A romantic "in love" feeling that my STBX claims she never really felt with me. She was okay without it, and was willing to work around that feeling, when suddenly someone (OM) fulfilled that EN for her. Now that she's had a taste of onions, she will never give them up.<P>Just a quick update here: OM is back in the picture, and STBX is insisting that she's going to try to make a life with him, even though he's living far away and still married, though separated. Funny, she used to tell me that long distance relationships never work out!<P>For my part, I had my date with...well, I guess she's the OW now! She lives over on your side of town. Went out for happy hour after work on Friday. Nothing serious, but had a good time and the promise of a second date. Wer're both the same age (she was born a month earlier), she was married for about the same amount of time, and divorced because her H kept cheating on her...mmmm! I don't think it will last more than a few dates, but it felt good to get back on the horse, so to speak.<P>Okay hard-core MBers...let me have it!

Allison, this is a great analogy of all of our marriages. Little things that go on for long enough will eventually erupt into something that cannot be repaired. Thank you for posting it!!<P>Take Care!!

I think it's fascinating how many people want to blame this man for his wife's refusal to honor his repeated requests for something that would have been simple to provide. And then accuse him of selfishness for not being satisfied with her change of heart when she realized that he wasn't going to take it anymore. I completely sympathize with this man.<P>This is very similar to the situation I'm in, although in my case, it IS communication instead of onions. And it WAS a major issue the first year we were married. I wanted him to spend time with me, talk to me. I begged, pleaded, cried. Nothing I did made any difference. My husband was still more emotionally attached to his books and toys than to me. It was "stupid" to need that from him, it wasn't what he got married for, and he wasn't going to do it.<P>Our kids provided a temporary solution, but they don't live here anymore. It wasn't until my husband realized that I don't want to live here anymore, either, that he decided we should spend time together.<P>I have to conclude that his motivation is to prevent me from leaving, not that he enjoys my company. Thanks anyway, but I'm not that hard up.<P><BR>

smidgen, I guess I can only say that I've been on both sides of the "little things" issue - my husband was not the ideal husband, he was irresponsible, he didn't communicate well and he didn't support me in many ways that I wanted him to.<P>But, you know what? NOT ONCE did I think of leaving him. NOT ONCE did I think of being with someone else. NOT ONCE did I even remotely think of a divorce.<P>My husband decided, during the same time that he was as emotionally supportive as a dead branch, that I was not meeting HIS needs for ... HOUSEKEEPING. Let's just forget that I was constanly exhausted from the emotional stress of a lousy job, and had an unsupportive husband who, as it turned out in the last few years, was cheating on me. Let's just forget that his arms were not broken and he had plenty of time to participate in golfing and skiing... He decided that he needed some additional support in his life... and then left me. For basically the same kind of "small" reasons that the husband that alison describes left HIS wife.<P>Studies about marriage show that a spouse simply CANNOT possibly meet all of your emotional needs. You will have to go outside your relationship to have some of them met. That does not include having the most intimate of our needs met by another person, but there are loads of recreational activities that individuals can share with other individuals - preferably of the same gender.<P>We are brought up to believe that there should be no compromise, sacrifice or even work in "happily ever after." Guess what?! We've been brought up with some SERIOUSLY WRONG beliefs! Couples who are happily married for a long term also almost all have at least 10 issues that they consider "irreconcilable". They have learned when to compromise, and when to just drop it. Do we want to be "right" or do we want to be married to the people we chose as our lifemates?<P>People who are married live longer, are healthier, more productive and more prosperous. I know which one I choose... I only wish my husband would choose the same thing.<P>I'm sorry if this seems harsh - it is not intended to be against any person here. It is just my frustration at what seems to me to be the oft ridiculous reasons that people feel they should not have to stay with their spouses, and with a system that continues to allow it - even encourages it!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

sorry ... me again ... I just can't seem to leave this alone.<P>I was re-reading something that caught my attention in allison's original post: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He loves onions in his food. Wanted them in just about everything. He worked hard all of his life, took care of his family, while his wife took care of the house, the kids, the meals ect. For fifteen years she never cooked a meal with onions in it. She didn't like onions, and the kids didn't like onions. This small factor started hurting him more and more each day, each<BR>month, each year. He began to give up. Began to realize that he was never going to be first. He shut down. His wife saw this and panicked.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>He "began to realize that he was never going to be first." "Began to realize" OR assumed? I wonder if at any point he said to his wife, "Honey, I know you hate onions. I know the kids hate onions. I know that cooking with onions when you really don't like them is very repulsive... and I understand how you must dislike the smell being on your hands for days after you handle them... but I need to share something with you, and I hope you can understand how I am feeling. I feel like I have made many sacrifices for you and for our children - and I am not complaining about that at all - I believe that it is my duty as a husband to provide for my family. And this is difficult to say without it sounding a little silly, but here goes: After so many years of wanting a meal with onions and your not wanting to cook with them, I am starting to feel unimportant in your life. I am starting to feel as if I don't matter enough to you for you to hold your nose and throw some onions into a special meal for me every once in a while. And I am serious about this. I know it sounds kind of silly, but it is truly bothering me a great deal."<P>Do you think he ever said that? Or do you think it was more like this: "Why don't you ever put onions in anything? You KNOW I like onions."<P>There is almost always some way to reach your spouse, even after years. There is almost always some way that you can change your own behavior or perspective to affect that of your spouse.<P>You know, this reminds me of the story Michele Weiner-Davis tells in several of her books. The wife in an elderly couple was fed up with her husband's habit of coming to the dinner table EVERY day for years barechested - no shirt on! It bothered her - she considered it extremely inappropriate and impolite. She asked him, cajoled him, begged him, screamed at him ... nothing she said to him changed his behavior - evening after evening, he came to the dinner table with no shirt. She didn't leave him, but had thought about it, as this particular behavior truly bothered her. Finally one day, she made a decision. As every day before, she made dinner and called her husband to the table. He came to the table, as every day before, barechested. Just after beginning the meal, she excused herself from the table. She was gone for a few minutes, and when she returned to the table, she was naked. She sat down nonchalantly at the table and continued to eat her dinner. Her husband was shocked. After a minute, he, too excused himself from the table. When he returned, he had put on a shirt. And every night after that, he came to the table completely dressed. As did his wife.<P>I love onions in my food. And I love garlic in my food. But I hate to actually handle either and cook with them... because my hands smell for days afterward. If I didn't like them, I certainly would never want to even touch them.<P>OK, I think I am done with this now...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

OK, I lied... One more thing and then I promise not to initiate another post on this subject (no promises about responses and/or rebuttals).<P>I am NOT saying that I think we ought to always overlook the little things that we are missing in our lives. I am not in any way dismissing the importance of them - believe me, I missed a lot of the little things, and FIGHT against resentment about that when I am feeling down about my situation. What I AM trying to say is that we often need to be hit upside the head with a two by four before we truly understand how deeply our spouses need some of what we consider to be the little things. It is not due to lack of love for them, nor is it an intentional denial. I just don't think that it is a reason for divorce.<P>As for allison's friend... she says "They divorced, she still loves him, he will never look back." I don't believe this. I believe that as he starts a new relationship, he will realize that onions weren't particularly important in the general scheme of things. He has lost just as much, if not more, than his ex-wife has lost. And one day it will hit him like that proverbial two by four ...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

I'm sorry to keep sounding so angry all the time. I never expected marriage to be effortless; I just didn't expect to be the only one making the effort.<P>What I see in the onion story is a Disrespectful Judgment (dismissing his wishes as unimportant or unreasonable) that led to an Annoying Habit (fixing food every day that she knew he didn't like). Same for the shirtless man. Daily LoveBusters. They do add up.

Ilove you guys...<P>I love the passion we at MB can share and still really look at each others opinions (whoops, almost spelled out onions there rather than opinions)<P>This is the thing...we are all correct. <P>The onion story is to me, an illustration of why my Plan A did not work. I struggled long and hard to do a good Plan A, and it was working, he was so close, but then went happily into affair #2...why? It was just too late for my husband.<P>Yesmy husband is a selfish man, always has been. Yes, he will regret what he's doing some day, but I have to make some sense of all of this. <P> My friend told me the onion story and it just made me understand that sometimes it's just too late. He is not an ogre, he is just a man that gave up. Does he wish things could have been different...sure. He felt like he met his wifes needs...and he must have done a pretty fair job seeing that she still loves him, but it was not reciproacted, same as in my marriage. I got lazy, I got fat, I got secure. My husband just was not getting what he needed here, and a whole bunch of that fault lies on me! So, I panicked, lost a bunch of weight, kept the house sparkling clean, made great meals, got a job...the whole bit, but it did not heal the hurts in my husbands heart.<P>It kills me because it was so repairable before he started affair #2. But I have to take a long hard look at myself here and try to understand how my husband fell out of love with me. Yes, it's the fault of his for not coming to me when he should have, but this man did not want to hurt me. In doing this, he hurt me in the most cruel way there is. <P>All I can hope for here is that I learn a big lesson here. WE HAVE TO PUT OTHERS BEFORE OURSELVES. I did not do that. My happiness always came first, and as long as I had plenty of money to spend, plenty of free time to play, and the status symbol of being his wife hanging around my neck I was happy. My needs were met!!! No wonder I loved him and still do. But as I was living this life of false security he was withering...and I didn't see it...I refused to. I was afraid to.<P>So, be it onions, or money, or communication or dishes, I just want to learn. I didn't understand putting another before myself. Taking the person you love for granted over years and years will kill their love for you and I did this big-time my friends.<P>It's probably too late for my husband and I, but to make this time in my life mean something...I had better find a way to use this knowledge to understand myself better, and any future man that comes into my life. <P>allison

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by az allison:<BR><B><BR>All I can hope for here is that I learn a big lesson here. WE HAVE TO PUT OTHERS BEFORE OURSELVES. I did not do that. My happiness always came first, and as long as I had plenty of money to spend, plenty of free time to play, and the status symbol of being his wife hanging around my neck I was happy. My needs were met!!! No wonder I loved him and still do. But as I was living this life of false security he was withering...and I didn't see it...I refused to. I was afraid to.<P>So, be it onions, or money, or communication or dishes, I just want to learn. I didn't understand putting another before myself. Taking the person you love for granted over years and years will kill their love for you and I did this big-time my friends.<P>allison</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow! I wish my W would come to that realization! Throughout this whole thing, she has only focused on her own happiness...short term, right now, whatever makes her happy is the only thing that matters. Even though she knows she is being hurtful to both myself and D, her own happiness trumps ours.<P>I think you've come close to the heart of the matter. The key is to PUT THE INTERESTS OF YOUR FAMILY ABOVE YOUR OWN. If you constantly put your own needs first, you will fail. If you put the needs of your spouse first, you will not be fulfilled, and you will fail. There has to be a balance, and the greater good of the family should always win in the end, even if your "family" is just you and your spouse.<P>I have always looked at my W and her D as my family. The needs of the whole family always trumped mine. I was offered jobs that would have required moving the family a long way for an uncertain future...didn't take 'em. I had the money to buy a fast, 2-seat sports car...sorry, no back seat for the D, and no room for groceries! This Friday, I can go to a concert for free, and hang around with the band backstage...sorry, but since I'm out of town for the holidays, Friday is my "Christmas" with my D.<P>Thats what I think our WS's have forgotten. It is not all about ME or YOU, it is all about US!<P><BR>