I feel like I am in Limbo... I do not have an effective plan going right now. I was plan Aing for about 3 weeks, which has been hard to do with no contact. H makes sure we do not really see each other or have any reason to talk. I do not feel that I have anyway of continuing this without contact. His A is full blown, he and OW pretty much live together. <BR>With my kids making the decision not to have contact with him either, I am stuck. I feel like I am in a modified plan B.<BR>I am still working on myself, going on with my life but, I have no other option right now other then to have no contact. Can this be successful? To some degree I feel like he is isolated from everyone and everthing except OW. Is this a good thing? Will it speed up the process of the FOG lifting, Or just make it easier for them to go further in the A without complications. I feel a little lost right now and am not sure how to approach my situation.<P>I cannot bring myself to even call him, I have no reason to do so. I do not want to make excuses for doing so I feel that would be very apparent to him. I do not want to look needy or manipulative.<P>I don't feel like I have anything in common with him right now to even pursue conversation. How weird that the man I once knew everythng about seems like a complete stranger right now.<P>If anyone has any advice or encouragement I would greatly appreciate it. I feel really stuck!!!! <P>Thanks<BR>Diana

Goochy,<P>You are essentially where we all are. It is hard, hard, hard. Limboland is not a nice place. The fog will eventually end for him. Unfortunately, you can't do much right now to speed it along. I'm sure that your kids not wanting to see him will help the fog lifting.<P>I fully understand the feeling of not having enough in common to have conversation. I'm very much like that with my W, and I wish it wasn't the case, because conversation would help meet ENs. How can you converse alot when they live like they do? We are not in their loop.<P>All I can say is to keep doing the things you are doing when you have good days. Be busy, know that you are taking the moral path and are the sane, stable one. You'll always have that. Take care of your kids, talk to friends, vent to us, go to the store, see a movie, whatever.<P>What about talking to Steve?<P>Above all, you need to hang in there with the rest of us, and when the urge strikes you, just blah blah blah to your fellow MBers.

Rick,<P>I do think I need a follow up with Steve. My first session with him was 2 weeks ago. I am sure it would help to let him know what has transpired since then. <BR>I know that over at DB they recommend no contact, It scares me that no contact will just make it easier on him. I know that this week is going to create issues when he calls again for the kids. I am going to have to have the conversation with him about why kids do not want to see him. This is going to be tough one. I do not want the one and only contact to be a negative one.<BR>I do know that he is the one who has to suffer the consequences to his decisions, but I dread being the one who has to give him the reality of it. It just opens me up for his abuse and anger. Which also scares me cause I find it easier to dislike him.<P>One thing positive that I have noticed about myself is I have been able to let go of some of the control. I know I do not have the energy or time to worry about his actions.<P>I used to sit around and think of ways to get at him good and bad, now I am able to let it go and be patient. I know he will hang himself.<P>Oh well I am rambiling. <P>Thanks for your response.<P>Diana<P>

Gooch - ditto what Rick said. I think you're in the typical spot for those of us separated in Plan A. Remember, Plan A is mostly about improving YOU, which doesn't require his involvement. You're still early in it, from what I recall, and the fog is thickest. There will be long periods when you feel like you're stagnant, going nowhere, but everytime you decide not to call him, you're making progress. You're giving him space. It's like one of my favorite Jimmy Buffett songs, "When the phone don't ring, you'll know it's me."<P>Stay with the plan!<P>WAT

Diana,<P>Think DAve & Rick have given you great advice. You sound as if you are doing okay. Just keep doing what you are doing, don't call him unless you have to about your kids. <P>Is there anyway you can not tell him how your kids feel? I mean is their someone else that can tell, a pastor or counslor. I feel that he will take it as a major LB from you. Would your kids tell him, if not to his face then let them write it. Of course kids tell us what they think we want to hear also, my OS said things but then we he see his DAD he never acted on them or said anything.<P>Thinking about you.

Well, The week after we found out about OW, My H came to pick up son, my S told him he did not want to go. We ended up having a meeting for 2 hours.The very next weekend when he went over she was there again and every time since then. The kids are fed up. <BR>They are tired of watching H and OW sit and make out, they feel uncomfortable when she is there, H acts different. They are just plain tired of having to spend time with her. My kids knew her b4 this started and did not like her then did not like her then.<BR>H just wants them to go on and act as if everything is OK with them and it is not. He basically told my son he is gonna have to deal with it cause that is the way it is.<P>I know that H is going to ask what is up come this week. I would like to tell him that he might want to meet with the councelor and the kids. That way I can stay out of it. I would also like to advise he do some reading on kids and divorce/affairs. I know he is so screwed up right now and he will not even consider those options so until he does I guess the kids don't see him. Or if he wants to see them OW just cannot be there. I have no clue how to approach this. NEED HELP on how I can put it without LB... There are other reasons as well as to why kids are done with him right now. So I do not know what to do..<P>Since the seperation I have been the only one to talk with my kids. He left them a note and told them to sit down with me and I would help them to understan what is happening. He also told the kids his reason for leaving was because he had to stop hurting me and that he could not be there for me emotionally. Now the kids see it different and suspect it was because of OW. Now they see him as a liar as well. Oh well why would I expect him to do anything moral and upstanding were my kids are concerned he is a complete moron right now.... All of this transpired the first month he moved out and he tells the kids he is happy now and wants them to be happy for him, My kids are like YEAH RIGHT!!! He has never thought about their well being in this matter why would he start now?<P>Thanks<BR>Diana

Is there any way to tell him the children would like to talk with him & counselor?<P>I think this link might help, even if it is for churches. <BR> <A HREF="http://familydynamics.net/Intervention.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://familydynamics.net/Intervention.htm</A> <P>I think you could modified it for family use, or for the kids to state their feeling to their dad, & let him know that no they don't have to deal with it, he does. Maybe this way you could stay out of it & no LB'S.<P>I haven't had to deal with this, been close but not yet. My H also knows it will not be pretty, I do not want her or her home wrecking family in my sons lives & I will fight him forever over it

Well tomorrow is the day my D has guitar lessons. H normally picks her up after work and takes her. She has asked that I do it for now on. I know he is gonna call and I have no idea what I am gonna say about the kid issue. I will only approach the conversation if he wants to know what is up.<P>I know he is going to blame me. I know that it is not my doing, my kids are old enough to make choices. My son even said today that since he has not been around his dad he feels more focused in school.<P> On to another subject. I am friends with a person who works for the same company as my H. She brought it to my attention awhile back that everyone around her office was shocked to hear of him leaving, she said all they ever talked about was how much he loved me and how we had a good life, she thought he was such a devoted H and was shocked to hear the news. She said the other guys were in shock for weeks.<P>Today she asked how the situation was going. Off the record I said, he is involved with some one else now, it is a co-worker( I did not name names.) She was dumbfounded, and asked if I thought it was going on all along? I kept it really brief. I do feel that I can trust this person and did not go into details. I just painted a little picture not giving a lot of information.<P>My thoughts here are that this company owns 4 properties that are all within a mile radius. All of the managers work together, aparently this one is not aware of my H and OW. So I guess they have not let the cat out of the bag.. hhhmmmm... I wonder why?<P>I know that a lot of people think it is detramental to expose the A. I do not feel I did that. I just made mention of it lightly, maybe subconciously I do hope everyone finds out about it. Do you think I made a mistake?<P><BR>Other then that I found myself thinking about H today, you know those obsessive thoughts about he and OW, those visuals are painful. However I noticed that they come and go now, I have been able to control my thoughts a little better. When I hear a song on the radio that makes me think of him I change it. If I hear a song that I might think he hears and it makes him think of OW, I change it.. I am getting better at taking control of my actions rather then obsessing over how I can control his.<P>Diana<BR>

Here is an update. Kids have made choice not to se H... I have been avoiding the converstion about it. Yesterday he called asked if they were coming this weekend. Told him NO they do not want to, And explained why.<P>Here is what happened at that point. He called an said he was coming over to talk to the kids himself. He does not believe what I say. The kids said they would not meet with him. So I left him a message requesting he did not show up. He called back and this is most of what happened. This is a copy of my thread from DB so if you read both boards it is identical... Sorry<P>Well basically H says I am the cause of why my kids feel this way. I am brainwashing them. I am a miserable wretch that only wants to see him sad and lonely for the rest of his life. I am the reason he drinks, I am the reason he has been unhappy for 13 years. I cause him and his OW to fight. He is pissed because I am letting the house go. I spread my legs for everyone. Where that came from I have no clue. He said my kids told him I dont spend time with them all I do is go out I never work and dont clean my house anymore. My son has had a problem with hives lately. He blames me for that says that I am not treating him for it. He is mad cause I gave him his bills to pay and I am canceling his car insurance. He said I am causing problems in his new relationship. He is tired of them having to deal with me. He says he is done I am not his wife any more, he has nothing but hatred and contempt for me. I need to be in councelling to figure out what my problems are cause I am wacked.<BR>He is cashing out his 401k to hire an attorney to proceed with all this divorce stuff. He blames me for not doing it myself. OW is moving in with him, he claims that she is there on the weekend because he has no money and that is the only way he can afford to take the kids out.<P>He asked to speak to the kids and neither one of them would get on the phone. He said so this is how it is huh I have no relationship with them now. I said well you make your own choices. He claims my kids are liars and all the stuff they told me never happened. He said he does not believe I ever loved him..<P><BR>I basically responded with.. I am sorry that everything is not working out according to how you feel it should. You cannot make the decisions you have and expect everyone to just accept it. He is only nice and civil when things are going his way. He wants no conflict of any kind. He thinks that we need to just get over this and I should force my kids to be with him. He thinks in time they will just get used to it. I said I will not force my kids to do anything against their wishes just to appease you and OW. He said OW and he fight about this all the time. Well that is not my problem. They should have analized all that is at stake here before jumping into this relationship. They have only been together for 2 months and are moving in together. Whatever.<P>Ya know when I was the one chasing and being miserable all the time he was the calm one. Now the tabes have turned and he is going balistic. I know the fog is not lifting but reality is kicking in. His Fantasy is not all that pretty anymore. He is responsible for this I will not take the blame. He has made his bed and has to "lie" in it. <P>I have had a really rough day. I am hurt that the man who worshiped me as the queen of all being, wonderful mother, greatest wife, could not live without me. Now I am not worth the **** on his boots. He is completely messed up in his head. I need to have no contact with him at all. My son is so emotional. He said last night he is scared that if I die he will have to go live with his dad.. Of course he is not at school today because he is sick. He is falling behind. I asked him last night if he would like to go to counseling with me. He said if it will help him to forget all of this he would. S just wants all of this to go away. He said OW and H stoled his life from him.<P>I am numb.... My thoughts are blank, my heart is hollow and I just do not care anymore. He deserves what he gets. He told me I act like I am more superior then him. I said well if making proper choices to protect my children is superior then I guess I am. He has chosen OW over his own flesh and blood. God Help him.<P>I read somewhere once you turn your mariage over to God, if it is meant to be he will work on both spuses. If one is just plain evil it will never work. Amen<P>Well here you have it A day in the life at Club Gooch..<P>Diana<BR> <BR>

Oh, I was so afraid he turn on you, if you had to be the one to tell him. I really think you need to get your children to talk with him, with someone else there, not you, so he can not force them into his way of thinking. He has to realize that is the kids not you, who is forcing the no contact with him.<P>No it hurts to be told all the things your WH said, remember it is fog speaking & guilty. I recently repeated something to my H that he has said on more than one occasion about me, he said no way I never said that, if my son hadn't wiped out my e-mail, I could I have gone & showed him. My H during the worst of our conflict repeat ley accused my turning the boys, especially OS against him, what is so funny I tried to protect him. My OS found an e-mail where H was bashing me about this, OS let his Dad have it, he told him Mom never stops telling us you love us, that it is her you have a problem with, then he told him, I love you Dad, I don't like what you have done but I love you, but if you go after Mom, there will be a war. Think my H has laid off me ever since.<P> Remember it is them not us, he has to live with what he has done. If you have done all you can, let go, I really think you maybe ready for Plan B, your kids maybe also. <P>You may need to talk to a lawyer to see if your kids can be made to see their D, if they don't want to do so.<P>Prayers going to Camp Goochy.

Goochy,<P>What a rough day. I am so sorry you had to deal with this mess. I would still recommend you suggest he talk to the kids counseler. Most counselers do not recomend spending time with the OW intially.<P>I think you should go to plan B, or at least only talk about the kids issues if you can limit it. I am afraid at this point all you can do is wait for the affair to end if you still want your marriage. My H left in Sept and we had no contact for 4 months, then we talked a couple3 of times and he was like a new person.. or I guess more like the old one. He talked to me, told me he was trying to break it off with OW and wants to go out to dinner.. maybe. So be patient, give it time, get out of his life so he cant blame you and it sounds like his OW and reality will do the rest to get him out of the fog.<BR>Lora

Hi everyone...<P>Rick I havn't posted with you in awhile. I have been hangin out over at Divorce Busters.<P>The current situation is... I have been having absolutely no contact with H. I do not answer my phone if he calls. After the situation that ocurred last week I have decided for me and the kids ths is best. Everytime there is contact with him our lives become a mess.<P>I know this cannot go on ofrever but, for now it is best. He did call on Wed. He said he needed to know how much we owed on the house. He has been calling real estate agents to see if we can sell it rather then foreclosure.<P>Well no word yet so I am wondering if he is going to persue it.<P>My son has an appt with my counselor on Monday. I did not even call H to tell him. I just cannot bring myself to speak to him.<P>Right now I am just done! I need to really figure out if this man is worth all of this anguish. I feel as if I do not miss him or want him. I only have issues when it comes to him and OW. Who knows maybe it is that I just don't want to see him happy with some one else.<P>I feel as if my meds have calmed me down so much I just dont' feel..<P>I still feel really stuck. I am much to hurt to plan A. Cannot bring myself to do a nice thing or even say anything nice to him.<P>Hope this is a phase. I kinda fel it is my senses just kicking in allowing me to back off so I can keep me and the kids from being hurt anymore..<P>Thanks guys<P>Diana