.<p>[This message has been edited by Trying to move on (edited March 21, 2001).]

I think that even if they realize all of this, they will still lose something that the other person gave them, basically that big EGO boost! So that is hard to let go of. It's a feeling that u want to keep always, so i think that is where the withdrawal comes in. Someone NEW was giving them the rush and excitement that they were not getting from spouse! That is were the withdrawal comes in.

I'm wondering about this too. My W recognizes that OM (EA only) was an escape from her very stressful life and withdrawn H. She recognizes this. As I'm providing MUCH better for her EN's maybe withdrawal will be little or none?<P>Bill

I think withdrawal is minimized if the WS ends or has ended the affair or is at the point where they want out. If the affair is going strong with full "soulmate" fantasy still in place, and the betrayed spouse discovers & confronts & the WS ends or tries to end the affair, the withdrawal seems to be worse.<P>Relationships of all kinds end every day, and different kinds of feelings result, from relief to despair, from feeling the OP was evil to wonderful, depending on what the relationship meant to the person.<P>Trying to move on--Labelling another person's experience or feelings as "junk" is rather a slap in the face as well. I'm happy for you if you haven't had to deal with withdrawal...but if you only "think" your H agrees with you, maybe you should ask him. <P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

I think I agree with Lor. At first I wanted to believe my H didn't go through any withdrawal at all. But I think he was so ready to get out of the mess he had created that it was probably just greatly minimized. He was determined to save our marriage and family. He did say the love he had for me was real, while the other was based only on their surface relationship (not exact words, but the basic idea). <P>I wanted him to view her with the same contempt I did, but about the worst he could say about her was that he knew there was a side to her that he never saw. I came to accept that as part of what others may call "withdrawal." Or you could call it self-defense--he couldn't say anything about her that didn't also apply to him. He could see her flaws and knew there was absolutely no future there, even if I had not given him a second chance. <P>------------------<BR>"Love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." 1 Corinthians 13:7

Interesting post. My wife, the WS, doesn't seem to be going through withdrawals either. It's been over two weeks since she broke it off with the OM. All her emails and such indicated she was deeply in love with this guy. Perhaps it was more infatuation then love. It does surprise me that she hasn't gone through any withdrawals. From what I've read in the books and here I was expecting it. <P>She hasn't wanted to talk about anything to do with the affair and following Steve Harley's advice I'm not pushing her. Therefore, she could be going through some kind of withdrawals and I just don't recongize them. I'm very new to all these MB concepts. I'll have to post my story here soon.

I read the post, closed it, read it, closed it, now, I am compelled to write. I have not heard of "withdrawl" until of course after my A's were discovered.<P>During the course of the deception, there was always some kind of "obsession" that was going on inside my brain. But, once the A's were uncovered, slowly, I may add, it was like they were zapped out of my system. <P>I honestly beleive that I did not go thru any type of withdrawl. As a matter of fact, I felt relieved. Like, whew. Too bad, I had to practically destroy my H in the process. Last week at my group we were talking about powerlessness, and obesession, and my counselor mentioned that I was able to let go, and how did it feel? It felt good. It felt so good that I don't have that hanging over me anymore, not only the normal feelings of guilt and deception, *but* not having any obsession going around in my head.<P>Now, that my husband and I are slowly rebuilding our marriage, I beleive that I am suffering more from the memories of what we had, and the loss of that. A relationship that is built upon a lie, there is no withdrawl, only smoke and mirrors, an illusion. <P>I was in the fog, but, it was induced by my own lack of acceptance and stepping up to the plate to be accountable for my actions. Not for wanting to talk or see the OM.<P>PJ

There can be no one answer. Withdrawal is extremely real to me. For someone else, maybe not so real. So? The original message used the term "withdrawal junk" which seems itself a bit of a slap in the face to people who have to go through it, as if they are not as enlightened as they should be.<P>I think it might depend on the level of the relationship the two people shared. Some A's may be more emotionally involved than others that are more physical pleasure than emotional bonding. I would think the former presents more of a withdrawal scenario, unless, as has been alluded to in the experiences of others, another side of OW is seen that effectively shuts down what remaining emotional attachment there is.<P>Ivory

Don't know if this will make sense, but it sure does to me...<P>My experience has been like my heart was drifting through space and came into the gravitational pull of another 'heart' or planet (OP) Trying to 'get over' or break off contact is similar to trying to break free of the gravitational pull of a planet. It takes an enourmous amount of energy and force to break free....and for a long time, the 'pull' will still be there. <P>Obviously, some 'planets' will have a stronger pull than others. But I can assure you, then next time you or anyone else feels the slightest pull of attention towards someone other than your spouse, you better radio home quickly with a:<BR> "Houston...we have a problem!"

The withdrawal can take on it's own personality. Even if your S isn't in withdrawl and never will be, there is the "withdrawal of remorse" so to speak. They have a great since of shame, loss and embarrassment they have to deal with and I believe this creates some type of socio-withdrawal. Notice, they will do alot of staying at home and down time.<P>They need time to reflect on what has happened in their life and therefore, withdraw for a while to develop a new method to communicate with friends and family. A's not only changes the BS, it changes the WS, BIG TIME!!! They too, are never the same after an A. Good for those of you who have not had to watch a crumpled, crying, sack of cheating, lieing, chicken manure go through withdrawal, not knowing if it's because of what they have done to you and the family or because they love this person who made them feel so very special ( at some point they did). You try to understand why and how and empathize with them or for them, despite your own feelings. This is REAL and not withdrawal "junk", this is someone's soul exposed to their spouse and God for all it's worth.<P>I think this is a classic case of DENIAL JUNK!!!<P>Well, slap my face!!!<P>Cathy

I think the withdrawal period depends on the person involved.<P>Once I came out of the fog, I realized what kind of person my OM really was and that made withdrawal a bit easier for me. I know even the memories will fade with time.<P>The obsession, however, is GONE. It's amazing how a dose of reality can help.

Catplay wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think this is a classic case of DENIAL JUNK!!!<P>Well, slap my face!!!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> That's pretty good Cathy, but really I think there is plenty of denial on both sides.<P>I remember reading the Harley principles right in the aftermath of finding out about my Ws affairs. The information was really helpful...al except the chapter about withdrawal. Yikes...I could read all about affairs and it didn't bother me, but when they spoke of withdrawal, I had to put the book down. <P>Sorry, I think it <B>is</B> another slap in the face for the BS. It's one of many.....<P>In my case, my W dropped everything the instant it became known, so I was spared that added heartbreak, but I understand completely what TTMO is saying. She shouldn't call it "junk", but I understand the feelings.<P>"Withdrawal" will feel like another betrayal. Our sef-esteem has been shattered, and just when we need reassrance the most, our S is too busy grieving the loss of the OP. We feel that our S made the decision to stay with us, and work on the marriage, so they should be able to put their feelings of "withdrawal" aside, and start giving to us. But no....it is us betrayed who must, once again, put <B>our</B> feelings of devastation aside, and wait for our S to come out of the "fog". Like Jimmy Carter said...life isn't fair.<BR>Dave

Excuse me DavidB, I guess you misunderstood my injection,DENIAL JUNK. I feel that Ttmo is stating that withdrawal is not real and just another "term" used to cause further damage to the BS. Did I misunderstand the comment?<P>Withdrawal: Feeling it, seeing it, living through it, was devastating. However, learning about it was very enlightening and helpful, for then, there was understanding and coping capabilities. Before I became a member on this board, I didn't know what my H was going through, I recognized his symtoms as those of some sort of grief, but I would never have known to refer to it as withdrawal. The description, context and premise of withdrawal are not what I consider "junk". It is a very real emotion, for both BS and WS. <P>And by DENIAL JUNK, I am stating that anyone who feels their WS doesn't move through some sort of withdrawal from any type of A is blatantly denying it. If the WS experienced an EA that the BS didn't know about until later, WS more than likely had already gone through withdrawal. If the BS would just reach into their memory banks... they will probably remember classic symtoms of withdrawal regarding the WS for the OP at some point, regardless of the intensity of the A.<P>I guarantee it !!!!!!!!!!!<P>Cathy

It does seem unfair that BS has to suffer two blows: the A itself and the withdrawal. But just last night my W told she she appreciated that I have never been anything except open about my emtional feelimgs at the moment, which still are in withdrawal and the fog. It has helped her to understand me a little better plus it has prevented her from latching onto false hope (the better to await <I>real</I> hope, which potentially will have staying power), something that she recognizes as ultimately helpful even if painful for the moment.<P>The WS can't particularly help his emotional feelings, despite all the fake-it-till-you-make-it theories out there. (Yes, he could fake it but what BS wouldn't see through that?) Given his inability to do much about it for the time being, what other course of action is left to him? Not many, except, of course, that he <I>can</I> do those things that he <I>can</I> do, if you catch my meaning. The BS, hopefully, can come to appreciate or at least acknowledge--<I>to some degree, anyway</I>---his efforts, his willingness to try and work on things. <P>Ivory

Yes..they can skip the withdrawl phase. My husband knew all along that he would not stay with the OW... he played along and participated in the fantasy..but once he wanted it to end..he ended it. He did not go through the withdrawl that you hear some people describing.

.<p>[This message has been edited by Trying to move on (edited March 21, 2001).]

It may be a slap in the face in and of itself, but how can it be an <I>intentional</I> slap in the face--administered by your spouse--if he has little to no control over it? Wouldn't that be similar to telling him, "Look, I know your Mom just died, but GET OVER IT!" Of course you wouldn't say such a thing, because you would know it <I>just doesn't work that way.</I> <P>The only reason you think you can feel this way as regards these particular circumstances is that the <I>object</I> of the grief is another woman. And yet, to the WS--like it or not--the grief, the time needed for withdrawal, is what is is, plain and simple, and a hundred refrains from you of "But it ought not to be!" won't change what simply IS. If he could control it, he probably would.<P>Ivory<p>[This message has been edited by Ivory (edited January 24, 2001).]