Here is one thing the Pastor told me and the OW: You can't say anymore that its won't happen to you. because it did.<BR>so...<P>Don't be so nieve to say it couldn't happen to you. because it could.<P>When you look at it from an aspect that it could happen to you, you now can set up ways to protect yourself- hedges. How can I protect myself from this temptation? Gods says we need to flee from sin and temptation. That means RUN!! <P>J

To bad you had to destroy another man's life to learn such a basic and simple truth. I'll bet you feel all fresh and clean now.

A2t, it doesn't sound like Perch did destroy another man's life. Perrch is back with his wife and his friend is back with the ow.<P>It sounds like they are doing their very best to restore 4 lives which have been ransacked by selfish wrongdoing.<P>It also seems to me that so few affair partners ever even try to make amends to the op's spouse that we should cut Perch a little slack. <P>I think it would help me tremendously if ow came to me and tried to work out our angry feelings. It would help if she even apologized - sincerely. <P>For those whose spouses are still involved in an affair or who don't have to deal with the op on a daily basis, this may not seem important. However, those of us down the road in recovery are dealing with the underlying hurt and anger that these 2 people could've behaved so dishonorably and with so little regard for us. Any active reaching out of the betraying partner to help us recover could be truly important. I also think that some effort to help out is expected of Christians whose selfishness has brought so much pain to others.<P>In over 2 years the ow in my case (the music minister in my church) has felt no inclination to apologize or make other amends. Likewise, my h has done nothing to reach out to her h. Somehow, it makes me feel better to see Perch trying to do the right thing for his friend.

Wesse:<P>I'm in the middle of a similar situation to Prech's. The OM (a God fearing man and an elder in his church) called me soon after I discovered the A. Asked for forgiveness and I gave it to him. Tried to help him in his marriage even. That was on Sat. Mon., stud muffin takes my wife back to their motel for another "nooner" and calls back on Wed. needing a little more "forgiveness"! I didn't give this time. I called his wife instead. Oh, and by-the-way, stud muffin has given us both a present to remember him by, we've got VD now and will have it the rest of our lives. God protect us from the phony "quick-fix" Christians.

Christians are individuals who follow the teachings of Christ to the extent that they not only profess their belief and testify of Him, but they also strive do follow these teaching to the utmost.<P>I would not call the horrid man who went back on his promise to you, seduced your wife, and gave her a disease a Christian. He might call himself that, but he is not following the teachings of Christ. He is not a representive of the faith. <P>I am sorry that this terrible thing happened to you, 2x. I hope that you will stay with us and keep posting--there is a wealth of info to be gained here. But please do not be bitter and hold the name of Christianity to hypocrites like that man.

W2t, I am dumbstruck! I wish I had words of comfort, but I really don't think it's that easy.<P>I am giving Perch the benefit of assuming he is sincere and that enough time has passed that he has NO attraction to his friend's wife. Otherwise, he should stay the H*** away. In any event he should limit his contact to the male friend.<P>The only silver lining to your case is that I hope that your w (unless she is truly deaf, dumb, and blind) would never again touch this disgusting om with the proverbial 10' pole! <P>Everyone in our church still sees ow as a near saint. Despite ow's hypocrisy, I do believe that there are many good Christian people. I just hope (& am slowly coming to trust) that my h is really one of them. I do agree some on this board who have posted that some so-called Christians feel like they are above it all and that, because they are so good, then what they are doing can't possibly wrong. My h's ow is a perfect example of this.<P>Fortunately, ow's actions toward me have let my h see the real ow and that is what is most important. I hope your wife now sees om for the faker he is.

We're both Christians, raised Protestant. We both became WS. My PA was over 11 years ago. I don't think I truly had an understanding of God...I pretty much expected to be hit by lightning, and when I wasn't, I wondered what was going on with God.<P>I became a true believer after that, I still worship as a Lutheran, but the liturgy, hymns, prayers, Bible readings, sermons all take root in my heart, rather than blow by.<P>My H was on Church Council (deacon/trustee) when he began his affair...and he had a loss of faith. He felt he had done too much to ever receive forgiveness from God, or me. He never outran God's forgiveness, but after almost 2 years of the affair & separations, he did outrun my ability to give anymore...and I became involved with a male friend, who in our first "serious" conversation, spoke scripture to me. <P>I later realized he didn't know it was scripture, but I had already taken it as a "sign". Beware the scripture-speaking angels of light who are actually being used by the Enemy! The OM also used a lot of soulmate terminology...but being a seasoned MBer, I recognized it and didn't trust it as much as I would have.<P>At the same time, my H hit bottom & truly turned his life over to God...and it simply seemed too late to me, and it was something he had said at our previous reconciliation--but God hadn't made a difference & he had left me again. <P>I did finally decide to give my H another chance and am depending & trusting God to make our full recovery possible.<P>It is so easy to lose sight of the path when you find yourself in a desert...or jungle.<P>We went to a Christian counselor who helped us tremendously... and we graduated to his weekly couple's Bible Study...and, we're studying David...I'm expecting the Bathsheba lessons to hit pretty hard. We're working on praying together, but it's hit or miss right now.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Whatever is true, honorable, just, pure, lovely, gracious...think about these things." Phil 4:8

I wept on the bathroom floor for 20 minuters in agony that I could love my H so much, thinking he was not with God.<BR>I know he believes and loves God.<BR>He doesn't have the relationship with him that I do and I know it bothers him.<BR>I was afraid that if he sinned he wasn't with God anymore. However, being with God, we still sin. We are forgiven- correct?<BR>He repented. I know now, however, that my mourning him being in heaven was for naught. I read in the bible that a spouse is saved through a believing spouse. As long as were married he is saved through me. I wept becuase I couldn't get passes the thought of being in heaven without him. I didn't care if he was here in this life- it was the after that I had severe grief over.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by perch:<BR><B>Just curious, how many of you out there consider yourselves or your spouses believers in Christ and ended up experiencing an unfaithfulness in your marriage? What was lacking in your faith or your spouses faith?<P> J</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Perch,<P>Just wanted to let you know that I hope that it works out with all of you still having contact on a regular basis. I know that in our case it did not work......Hopefully the difference is that your OW is repentive and truely sorry for her actions. I havent posted in a long time but still come around some. The similarities were to many for me not to respond. Things are going well for my wife and I. Things got alot better after we cut the weekly contact with the OC. I have received forgiveness from my friend and really would not have a problem with some contact at church but his wife (OW) still plays the role of victim and has not really apoligized to my wife. The actions of the OW are still questionable.....non-remorseful....for lack of a better way of saying it. Ex. Still occasional walks in our neighborhood, her "Sunday dress" is still questionable at best. (We continually hear this from our friends that still attend our old church.). <P>I just hope things will work out for you like I had hoped it had for us. It will take the four of you to do this not just 3 (as in our case).<P>Greg<P>If you want to read more, search User name "Duck and Weave" (my wife). Or subject "Best Friend betrayal". <p>[This message has been edited by Scarecrow (edited January 25, 2001).]

My H is the WS...We are both Catholic, but he hasn't been too involved in our faith. THe OW is a christian, daughter of missionaries. Her children go to a private Christian school. She is almost ready to deliver ? her H's or my H's baby. She says my H's....but was still intimate with her H.<P>Actually she is still intimate with him now when he is here (they are separated) and still goes to her church with him and their children...yet is still going on with the affair. Her favorite line used to be "anyone who doesn't believe in the bible literally is misguided" One big fault she seems to find in my H now is that he doesn't go to church....go figure!!!<P>I guess what I've learned through all of this is that we should all be able to look into the eyes of an adulterer or murderer and see ourselves there. I'm convinced by my own situation, that when pride, or humanism, overtakes you....you cannot see!!!<P>And it's hard to be judgemental when it is evident that they are unaware!!! It appears that sin is watchful!! I am trying to be more watchful myself. And to do this, I have begun what I hope will be a daily walk in the truth. I don't think I've ever truly understood faith, or what the "fear of the lord" really means. I have also never really understood what it meant to give something totally over to the lord until now.<P>It is a precarious position we seem to be in as humans...a vigilant struggle to walk the narrow path... Obviously, the wider path is more appealing in the short run. <P>Believe it or not...this situation has strenghthened my faith, while the walls of my marraige were being torn down. I'm sad, but glad to be at a place that I probably should have been in the first place.

Its funny how we try to only apply specific portions of Bible that suit us and ignore others that would hinder our own wants and needs-- The Word ( the Bible), needs to be applied in its entirety. I am also guilty of this.<P>A2timer-<BR> I can tell your hurt, I am not going to pretend to know how you feel but I'm sorry that this other man took advantage of your forgiveness. I expect the OW husband to be angry with me and I need to submit myself to his anger-- I ahve no excuses, nobody deserved what happened. The only reason this has been working is because The OW and I had to become accountable to other of the church. The deacons come to me often to make sure I'm on the up and up. Same with her. If we hadn't end our behavior, our church would have asked us to leave. <P><BR>Crete--<BR> "He doesn't have the relationship with him that I do and I know it bothers him.<BR>I was afraid that if he sinned he wasn't with God anymore. However, being with God, we still sin. We are forgiven- correct?<BR>He repented. I know now, however, that my mourning him being in heaven was for naught. I read in the bible that a spouse is saved through a believing spouse. As long as were married he is saved through me. I wept becuase I couldn't get passes the thought of being in heaven without him. I didn't care if he was here in this life- it was the after that I had severe grief over."<P>could you find and tell me where i the bible that a spouse is saved thru a believing spouse?? I do not think this is true. <P>God does say you should not divorce your spouse because he/she is an unbeliever-- but that should should dtay with them and be a good witness so that they can see Gods love thru you-- but ultamitly it is up to the individual to accept Christ and repent of their sins, then and only then will that person have eternal life. Does this make sense? J<BR>

Hi.<P>It's I Cor. 7. The whole passage deals with the issues of marriage and divorce. However, if you read carefully, it does not guarantee salvation for the unbelieving spouse, it merely says "may be" sanctified through the believer...in other words, it is more likely that it will happen than if the believer leaves, giving the unbeliever cause for bitterness.<P>In our case, I didn't kick him out when I realized that he was actually NOT a believer, but rather someone who has been TRYING to live a Christian life without true faith in God/Jesus/HS.<P>my nickels worth,<BR>lizpearl

Perch,<BR>I probably shouldn't speak for Crete, but I think I might know the answer to your Q.<P>Corinthians 7:14 "For the unbelieiving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified throught her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy." (NIV trans)<P>I am not convinced this means the unbeliever goes to heaven, but that the believer does not sin (the "do not be yoked to an unbeliever" passage) by being married to an unbeliever. I don't think "sanctified" and saved are the same exact thing? The advantage appears to go to the children, not the unbelieving spouse.<P>No doubt this is a matter of doctrine & theology, but as far as I know, none of us can make the decision for someone else to be saved and go to heaven.

here is the New Living Translation of 1 Corinthians 7:14--<P>7:14<BR>For the Christian wife brings holiness to her marriage, and the Christian husband brings holiness to his marriage. Otherwise, your children would not have a godly influence, but now they are set apart for him.

Just popped in briefly and found this INTERESTING thread.<P>All these tales ought to make us think about what TRUE spirituality is. As one of the few non-Christians participating (however intermittently) in this forum, I've often been struck by a prevailing sentiment that ONLY Christians can be moral, and ONLY Christianity can keep people on the straight and narrow. I've even had someone imply that even though she cheated on her spouse, she was more "holy" than I am because she is a Christian.<P>What all these stories should point out is, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."<P>Call me a pagan, but I do happen to think that what we DO in life is just as important as what we BELIEVE.

Dazed and Confused...<P>We Christians are not holyer than tho....there are many great people out there that are moral, kind and loving who are not Christians. The difference between you and I is that I have Christ working in me. My will has been given over to Him, and I feel peace, comfort and strength. Something that I could not do for myself. I know that if I do His will, my life will be so much happier. Believe me, there are many times satan gets me..and I find myself so miserable. Doing things that make me more unhappy. I believe more Christians go through divorce and unfaithfulness to their spouse than any other people. Satan works over time on us....hoping we will go his way. It's tough being a Christian and always battling satan. God gives me strength and comfort. I couldn't live without Him. I am happy...even tho my H and I are separated...but if it is God's will, someday our marriage will be better than ever.<BR>Please don't look down on us..we have plenty of troubles, try talking to God see where it gets you.<BR>Kathie

Your right Dazed and confused--But I'll change your last sentence abit-- What we DO should relect what we beleive. bECOMING A Christian doesn't mean we won't sin (we are still just men and women)but we should sin less and less.

As Christians were not perfect..and not without sin..were just sinners saved by grace..

Just wanted to threw my two cents in here. <P>My husband claims to be an non-believer. He and his OW never discussed religion, I found out that she is a Catholic - her children go to Catholic school and her family to Catholic church every Sunday.<P>The irony is when she was having an affair with my spouse she bought him a St Christopher's to wear. I thought that quite funny that a Christian woman cheating on her husband with a married man thought the Saints would watch over her lover.<P>LOL

Very interesting thread here....sad as well. You can add my story to the list of Christian marriages that were attacked by infidelity. My husband had a brief affair with a woman in our church...someone I considered a friend. It was revealed and ended almost 3 years ago now and we are very happy. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that God orchestrated the revelation as an answer to my prayers for my marriage and my husband's prayers for a way out of the hell he was in. The ow was not married....she was a twice-divorced woman looking for husband #3.<P>perch, I commend you for your willingness to meet with your friend and clear the air. We did the same thing. The ow came to a session with our Christian counselor and we spoke face to face. She and I also emailed for quite a long time both before and after the meeting. It was successful in that it gave me a chance to tell her how I felt and for her to hear some things she needed to hear. She did apologize to me and I forgave her. For a time we believed that God wanted us to stay in the same church and worship together, but over time we realized that He did not expect that from us. <P>Her presence was a constant negative trigger about the affair for both my husband and me. He was terrified he would run into her in the hall and someone would report it back to me. Neither of us really worshipped any more. I thought it was satan trying to bring me down, but within 24 hours of making the decision to move to another church I knew that God was allowing those feelings to take us somewhere else.<P>Perhaps God will enable you to stay in the same church...it would have to be His work for that to happen. I encourage you to be very sensitive to your wife and how this affects her, though. Did she have the same dream you did about reconciling with the other couple and sharing in a group? I ask this because my husband and I did each have a vision of us using our experience to help other couples....but the ow was nowhere in sight. We both realized that God wanted to give us a fresh start somewhere new...we both needed to heal. There are a number of people in our new church who know about the affair...we have shared with them how God worked in our marriage. We weren't running away from the affair, but running to God and His plan for us. I'm not walking in your shoes....just be certain that the desire to stay is really a word from God. <P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31