<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

It sounds to me as if she is being realistic and you are the one living in the fog. Maybe it is time to accept that she does not want to be your " wife". As I recall you have been sleeping in a separate bedroom for the past 10 years. What makes you think that the next 10 years are going to be any different. Of course, there are marriages of convenience which are agreed upon by both spouses in which intimacy is not expected as part of the marriage. These relationships can work out because there is no expectations that affection or love will be given or received. It is a question of whether you can accept your wife's terms. Only you can answer that.

Whoa Max!<BR>I have to admit, I was shocked to read your reply.<P>I wouldnt say that OOOO is the one in the "fog". His W is clearly being disrespectful and kaniaving. <P>When a person is doing Plan A, it is not the idea of that person filing for D until at least of Plan B has been placed into motion. Correct? So, why would it be in the plan for OOOO to file? If she is the WS and is seeking this, she needs to file, she needs to move out. <P>ILAC

I echo what ILoveaCop has said.<P>Max ... OOOO's wife is the one in the FOG. She is the one who thinks they can live in a loveless marriage for the next ten years while her OM waits for her. Ten flipin years, yeah right. How real world is THAT? Talking about being FOGGED!<P>Good grief, OOOO, honey I'm so sorry you're still having to take this. You know I know your story. I think you may want to start thinking about a seperation and perhaps Plan B, but only you know when it's time ... I'll tell you how I got there and hope it will help you.<P>I was Plan Aing my heart out (11+ months), we were at the point where my H was blatantly having the A in front of me, he wasn't saying I'm sleeping with her, but he would disappear and then tell me a lie, knowing I knew they were lies. At this point he did not want to move out. He was conflicted ... the proverbial fence. I never actually planned to initiate the seperation, until two days before I did it. It was a Thursday and I found myself seeing how it would play-out that coming week-end, in my head I planned the logstics and events that would take place when asking him to leave, I wasn't conciously doing this, I guess my survival instincts just kicked in. I didn't even tell my counselor, I didn't tell anyone, which was very strange. I didn't hesitate, I was watching myself from afar, I just did it. I had to, it was time and my mind, body and heart were all in agreement.<P>You will know when it's time, OOOO. You've been so courageous and strong, with all you've been thru I'm sure you feel that if you seperate you'll have no regrets. And I want you to know that if you decide to do this, Plan A, if continued, is a lot easier to do long distance than it is with it right in your face 24/7. But again ... you'll know OOOO, I promise, you will know when it's time.<P>BTW: If you decide to do this, your W is the one to move, not you. Please be very clear about this, she is betraying the marriage, she needs to leave.<P>Love you, OOOO. Please stay well and strong.<P>Jo<P><BR>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited January 25, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited January 25, 2001).]

What is so shocking about my message to OOOO? The fact that he should start believing what his wife is telling him. The fact that she is being honest with him and really doesn't want to have an intimate relationship with him to the point of telling him that he should get a mistress. How much more clearer can this picture be than this.

If you start seeing someone while married, she can <I>justify</I> what she is doing. Lessens her guilt because you are doing the same thing as she.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Right on! What Chris said. She is trying to coerce OOOO into the same world she is in, therefor, she can feel better about herself and the hole she has dug.<P>Res-<BR>Bravo! Your words of advice were so very touching. It came from your heart and even though Im not in this situation, your advice touched me! Thank you....<P>OOOO- How are you? <BR>

OOOO - I agree with Chris - you shacking up with another woman validates her behavior.<P>I think you should consider a separation, but SHE leaves, not you. NEVER leave you home and children. This is the smartest thing I did. But continue Plan A when you do. The hard part is that you can't make her leave, and neither can she make you leave. This determination for us was who could better afford the mortgage? I won, and my wife's rent on her one bed room apartment is only a couple hundred dollars less a month.<P>WAT

I agree with Chris too.<P>At the height of my H's affair, he very generously gave me my freedom to date other men and find someone to make me happy.<P>It was nothing more than an attempt to justify his behavior. <P>He's since then broken off from the OW and is trying to reconcile with me.

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO -<P>I agree 100% with resilient. I think you'll know when it is time to "change strategies."<P>I also agree 100% with WAT. I think I would have to explain to her that you have no intention of "finding someone else," that she's the one you love and the one you want to be married to (and by marriage, I mean a loving, happy, healthy marriage - not a marriage of "convenience" for the kids sake.) I would also explain to her that you have no plans to leave your home, that if she does not want to be married to you that it should be she who is to leave. <P>I do think you can Plan A and assert yourself at the same time. I do not think that it is a LB to say what you think marriage should be - what you believe marriage to be - and that you still want that with her.<P>In a way, I think she's saying those things because she either wants to lessen the guilt that she feels (but don't fall for it - any relationship, whether your wife knows about it or not, outside of your marriage is an affair), or possibly she's afraid that you WILL find someone else.<P>For some time, during recovery, I basically accused my H of having an affair. It was completely off the wall, had no justification for such accusations at all. But I was always suspicious - I didn't trust my H because I couldn't even trust myself. It was a very strange time. <P>If you haven't talked with your wife, I think you should let her know that you have no intentions of moving out of the house - that she would have to be the one to move out. Then, she'll probably take that as a sign that you just want a marriage of convenience - but I would also explain to her that that is not your definition of a marriage.<P>I think you just need to be honest about the way you feel, but if she wants you to find someone else - tell her that's not going to happen unless you two are divorced. If she wants you to leave - tell her that's not an option - that she'll have to be the one to leave. You want your marriage - she's the one who doesn't. But don't let her warped thinking about an "outside" relationship trap you into doing something that goes against your principles and against your goals (i.e., saving and rebuilding your marriage).

OOOO,<P>Following up on what everyone including SKM has said. Let me suggest something to think about. If it were me (thankfully it is not) I would explain to her that you have no intention of having an affair. You have no intention of living in a loveless marriage. You have every intention of loving her as long as you can do it. BUT when you lose that "loving feeling", that there will be a separation and she will leave the house.<P>I would do this for two reasons, it would be the truth and secondly it might provide a bit of motivation for her to come back toward you. Right now just for the kids and being in the house, but perhaps if she starts to move, then she may be receptive to your efforts.<P>This should be presented to her in a matter of fact way, with no LB's no blaming just here are the facts. Deal with it.<P>She needs you badly right now. She needs you for financial support, she needs you for the stability that you provide, and she needs you to take care of the children. Don't jam it down her throat but if this is how you feel explain it to her.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO,<P>I want you to read the post by WLD that I am bookmarking here. In it there is a post by StillTrying from last year. Read it and then read about his life this year.<P>I would strongly recommend that you talk at length with StillTrying.<P>Here it is <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/007336.html" TARGET=_blank>WLD</A><P>Hope this helps you see somethings.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

OOOO,<P>I tried to follow StillTrying's link in the post by WLD that JL refers to, if you can follow what I just said.<P>The link doesn't seem to work, but I did a search and I'll try to insert a link here to the thread "Help! Recovery or dead end" on "In recovery" dated 3-22-00.<P>Ok, here it is: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000288.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/000288.html</A> <P>Looks just like the other, maybe StillTrying put in "ohs" for zeros or something. Ok, now I'll post this and see if it works.<P>Steve