I recently tried to move into Plan B but found it impossible because of the needs of my kids. My wife and I share custody of our two daughters, 9 and 14. They have so much going on with school and other activities that I would have to hire a full time moderator to communicate with my wife. Anyone who has kids knows how fast something can pop up unexpectedly. I plan on addressing this with Steve Harley in the next session.<P>Anyone else have any thoughts or ideas?

I totally agree that the strict version of Plan B that the Harley's outline is impossible to do with kids. I'd even go so far as to say that, in my opinion, I think it is not in the best interest of kids to see that their parents won't put their(the kids)best interests ahead of their own problems.Kids need to see their parents as a united front in matters that pertain to them. That is why I always called my own Plan B "modified". I know that brings cringes from some hard core Harley proponents.I saw no way around it and no other acceptable solution. I still communicated with my H about the kids but that was it. We even had discussions about how our problems were affecting them but we didn't discuss anything about anything else until he was ready to commit to reconciling. I think matters relating to your children can be an exception to the strict Plan B outlined in the Harley's work. You just have to be very careful that when in those communications with your WS that you don't get reeled into straying from the topic. I also feel that continuing to converse and problem solve issues related to the kids in a civil,caring manner provides some form of positive realization to the WS, kind of like "Hey, if we can work things out in the best interest of our kids,maybe we can work out our own issues as well." I know for my own WS, it served to illustrate to him that things in our marriage weren't as horrible as he had made them out to be in his mind. I'm very interested in what Steve will have to say to you on this issue. Please let us all know. All the best to you!

I do believe that you can do a strict plan B with kids. Having said that, mine was less than perfect as well. If there is someone who you can depend on to be a full-time moderator (like another family member, or a close friend), then that works. Another way to handle this is by written notes and schedules.<P>The need to keep from contact is two-fold. The first is to protect yourself from your spouse's damaging behavior. The second is to avoid meeting any of their needs. When you start to have long conversations about the kids, you're falling into a trap of meeting their needs.<P>Doing a good plan B is not incongruent with putting the kids needs as a primary concern. You can do both. Keep the conversations to a minimum, and use an intermediary or written communication as alternatives---and as mthrrhbard did, don't discuss anything other than child-related issues.

Well, I am at that stage. Only have 1 child but need to give H his mail and collect the money for what he owes me & his upcoming bills. The only part of his money that he pays to the family budget is the amount for morning day care before school (not much). The rest of the money he owes is so that he can have insurance coverage from me along with the back taxes he owes from his prior business, etc. <P>Anyway, I just sent him an e-mail. Reduced contact to the items listed: Visitation for son, mail and money. H used to like to dump on me his problems with OW. No more. He used to dump on me his low cash flow problems. No more. He used to.... Well, no more. <P>Can I stick to this 'great plan'? Sure gonna try. I even asked my mother-in-law to check up on me to make sure I don't go soft. She said she would. <P>Can it be done? Hope so. H didn't like it when I 'accidently' digressed to a subject about him and OW. My fault. Have to work on that. <P>Can our great support group out there help out those of us in plan B to 'stick to it'? If you read a couple of my posts today, you will find out why it was so neccesary for me to move to plan B immediately. Kind of like reading a 'bad novel'.<P><BR>Thanks,<BR>L.<BR>

K-<P>I fully understand the two-fold purpose of Plan B. But I believe Plan B can only work in its original design. If you start altering it, then you are meeting the needs of the other spouse.<P>Incidently, my attempt at Plan B also went along with letting the children and spouse's immediate family know of her affair. Since the OP was a close family friend and one of my biggest problems was dealing with this OP having continued contact with them, I feel I have won a major victory here in that they no longer want to have anything to do with this person. Having their plans deflated has given me some hope. My wife seems to be at peace with what I have done. Even somewhat strangely relieved. Perhaps my case is going to be somewhat different in that the OP was a member of the same sex. My wife has stated all along that she is not a homosexual. <P>I was in Plan A for only about four months. I think I can go on for a while longer now with this new turn of events.<P>

Dear Always...<P>I am an old member here and I rarely post anymore but I thought maybe I would to your post. My H and I were separated for 6 months with 2 small children. The children were with me and I can relate to what you mean about the plan b thing working when you have kids. It lasted all of 30 minutes for me when I tried. There was alot of calling back and forth... and was a real awkward pain in the you know what for the middle man.<P>We have now reconciled and that was 2 yrs ago now but the funny thing is, you keep learning even afterwards. Today, I am a stronger and clearer minded person than I was then. Looking back on it now... I realize that I was in a FOG too!! Guess I never really wanted it to work either, if the truth be known. But I still don't think that it would have worked!<P>Now... I realize that the key to making a plan B work is ATTITUDE -- A STRONG MIND SET -- DETERMINATION -- AND GROUND RULES!!! <P>I do think that it is important not to be available all the time... actually, as little as possible! This is what I finally came down to. I just don't think that it does any good to 'hide' from someone that you will have to deal with for many years to come. For me the question was... 'When will I be able to stop? And how much harder will it be to communicate about the children? How will it affect the children now & later? <P>IMHO, I think that could be worse. Not only would children need to deal with the fact that mommy and daddy won't talk to each other... but then there is the adjustment of communication at some point down the road, which could be difficult also for all parties involved.<P>For me... I just realized that whatever is meant to be will be!! And that I was alot stronger than I was giving myself credit for. It was my choice, that I would have more control over my life than it seemed I had. He was gone... and whether or not he came back was not the point... the point was he wasn't here and I was still letting him have the control over every minute and aspect of my life and how I felt about it too!!! <P><B>ENOUGH WAS ENOUGH!!!</B><P>This was a definate hurdle to overcome... but like I said earlier... it was mind set that I had made. Almost as if my own cloud just lifted and I was stronger and made a decision to grow up and have some control over my own life & my own feelings.<P>I can't tell you that this kind of behavior makes a difference in the marriage part of this... I don't think it hurts, unless someone is open to a reconciliation out of pity and guilt. Me... I preferred to be strong b/c that was what was best for me and my children. <P>I wanted my children to see a better and stronger person than I had been. I didn't want my daughter to grow up thinking that a woman should allow herself to be treated this way... and I didn't want my son to grow up thinking that he could treat people this way.<P>In my case... I think that my stronger... independent and self respecting attitude, made my H a little uneasy. I think that 'my life is falling apart whatever and I going to do... I still love him' attitude gave him comfort that he would be taken back anytime.<P>Of course, I could see it going like... 'Well, she will be ok, I don't need to feel guilty anymore. And just go one with his new life, too.<P>That is why I said 'Whatever is meant to be... will be.' But I wanted to be the type of woman I knew I was inside... I just needed to bring her out. I would need to be stronger and more together no matter which side of the fence the chips fell.<P>Sorry so long... your thread was just one that jumped out at me and I though I can remember that! And I thought I would share. Good Luck to you and your family... I hope things work out for the best.<P>Genie29

HI Always,<P> I was in Plan B with 4 kids and although it is hard it can be done....First, get a schedule of when he takes the kids ahead of time. Use letters, email, answering machine to get messages to him about the kids....the key is be very businesslike , short and to the point. Try to set up as much as possible ahead of time. I opened my own account and had $ automatically taken from his to mine each month so I wouldn't have to deal with him.<P>I think you can still talk to your H if you need to, but you have to keep in mind WHAT it is you are doing....you are removing yourself from his life so that you are not meeting any of his needs. LU

I too am doing plan b with kids.<P>It's not easy but I keep contact to a minimum. He is the coach of their teams and I am team mom, they are in scouts also. <P>I asked for the house key and ATM card. He needs to knock when he comes for the kids and can not just come in and hang out. He has a set amount he needs to give me out of each payment for support. I asked him not to write checks or use our credit card. <P>Each week I give him a schedule of their activities. They spend the night with him one night a week and every other weekend. <P>I rarely call him and if I do it is about a change in their schedule and nothing else. Once a week I give him a bag filled with his mail and school work. <P>I manage just fine on my own doing home repairs, car maintenance, finances and everything else a single parent must do. The only limitation I have is physical strength. If I need help lifting or moving something, I have several friends that are more than willing to help.<P>So far this is working for me. Don't get me wrong, I would like to reconcile my marriage but so far he hasn't gotten to that point. <P>Good luck and just keep contact minimal and business like.<P>Hoping

Haveing done a Plan-B and done it for 3 weeks it is not impossible nor is it hard on the children...It is also not a punishment for the WS...It is to preserve your lovebank...If your kids understand that then they will IMHO be ok...<P>Steve can explain this better than I but I know it will work....He told me ZERO contact...No phone messages, written notes or emails...All that has to be communicated should be in the Plan-B letter...If there is a medical emergency or an accident of sorts the then communicating with the WS is necessary...But only in those to situations...<P><B>IF YOU WANT SUCCESS WITH THE HARLEY METHOD ONE MUST ADDAPT THIER LIFE TO THE HARLEY METHOD, NOT ADDAPT THE HARLEY METHOD TO ONE'S LIFE</B><P>It works like any 12 step recovery method...Think of Steve as a sponsor...He knows what he's doing and get results, <B>but</B> they are not always the results we want!! He told me in our first conversation that I needed to reconcile in my mind that there was a better than 50% chance my WS wasn't comming back...However, if I followed his instructions precisely I would be able do deal with divorce much better...<B>HE WAS RIGHT!!</B>...My divorce had minimum pain because I had already dealt with 90% of the emotions!<P>Rethink this that is if you want to survive with minimal emotional damage...This isn't the only way to survive infidelity but it is a very good one...<P>Best wishes to you and be strong!!<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

Thanks to all of you for your replies. I had a session with Steve yesterday and he believes I should try my best to institute Plan B.<P>William J-<P>I, too, hope Steve's barometer is pretty good at estimating the chances of recovery. He has been telling me all along that my marriage has a very good chance of surviving this. He says there is just too much baggage with the OP being a woman (my wife is not a homosexual) and her boss as well.<P>Genie-<P>Your story is very inspirational. I went into my first attempt at Plan B (which lasted all but about 6 hours) without considering a lot of things. My talk with Steve yesterday has me better prepared. He, of course, advocates absolutely no contact. But I know that there will be some even with the best preparations. I just need to realize that I don't have to stop and give up on Plan B if that occurs.<P>Hoping & Lu,<P>Sounds like you two are pretty much on the same page as Genie. My wife actually threatened me with filing for divorce and removing me from her benfits plan at work after she read my Plan B letter. Steve has told me that that kind of reaction is normal by the WS. The actual truth is that in defending myself in any legal action, I have far more to put on the table than she does. I just have to keep telling myself that.<P><BR>I'm going to give myself one more week of Plan A. Tomorrow my daughters go back to my wife's place for the week. Steve says it would be best if I went into Plan B right when I get the girls. I am going to go out of my way this week in trying to meet my wife's needs. After revealing her affair to the kids last week, I believe I have noticed a change for the better in her attitude towards me. Could be just a smoke screen like Steve says. But I have to give it a week anyway, so I might as well try to find out...<p>[This message has been edited by Always Hopeful (edited March 24, 2001).]

My H is effectively in Plan B in reverse. It is absolutely horrible for the children, and has been for almost two years. If he wants to change his plans with the children, he emails them - for one of the younger ones he usually cc's me, but for the middle ones he often doesn't, and they don't check their email every day, so they don't always get the messages in time. He has no interest in talking to me about anything to do with the kids or anything else. Nothing that requires discussion ever gets discussed. Email doesn't work because frequently he won't respond to email. The OW doesn't allow him to even go to parent teacher conferences. If there is a medical emergency he has told me to leave him a message. I am not allowed to call him and talk to him at her house in anything less than a life threatening emergency. Yet he is still allowed by law to have equal input into educational and medical decisions, and I am required by law to consult with him before making any such decisions not of an emergency nature. I must admit that I am envious of those whose spouse's will take the kids if you need them to. He has specifically refused to take them, even if it is so I can take another one of our kids somewhere they have to go. He has told me that he will not do anything that he considers babysitting. When our gutter half fell off the roof, he "generously" helped me find the crowbar so I could climb up to the roof in icy weather to rip the rest of it off. <P>Plan B allows the BS to have absolutely no responsibility whatsoever, yet still have an nearly equal amount of control over how the kids are raised even though he doesn't even know them. I see no downside of it for the WS. The OP is meeting all their "needs" anyway - obviously seeing his children isn't a need for him.

Plan B didn't work for me. I had to have communication because of the kids and we own/run a business. I had to see him but I kept any talking to a minimum.This lasted a week before he finally realized he was losing me and the girls. Although OP keeps calling, he has not seen her. When she does call, he basically tells her he is busy and hangs up. It may not be no contact but, He seems to have broken through the fog. Now I believe he is going through withdrawal. This isn't the best either. At least he is trying very hard from what I can see. everything takes time. God forbid if I do find out about any physical contact between the two of them, I will go back to a Plan B and make sure I am unavailable unless through a 2nd party. I hope it dosen't come to that.