Well, this could be it. I need to get some of this down before I go to sleep while it's still fresh.<P>W came over while we (son, au pair and me) were eating dinner. She brought some school stuff for <son> and then announced she wanted to have a talk with all of us. Right off the bat I didn't like her barging in and taking control, so I know my body language communicated my displeasure.<P>She started in with suggestions on how we can make sure <son> gets to school on time. She acknowledged that on mornings when she's brought him over from her apartment that she's been late (this is the only time he's been late). She proposed that on mornings when he is with her, that the au pair come to her apartment to get him or spend the night with them. I was not surprised at this proposal because she mentioned it several weeks ago. I replied that the au pair and I would talk it over to see if it was workable. (Actually, we had already talked about it and concluded that it was not reasonable.) My W insisted that this was intended to make our son's life easier. I thought to myself that this is really intended to make HER life easier. She's the one that moved out and it's not my responsibility to accommodate her hardships. The down side for her is that she wouldn't be able to have our son as often as she would like. She said that since she paid for 1/2 of the au pair expenses, she had a right to expect the au pair to do things for her. I reminded her that the au pair works for me - my name is the only parent on the contract - and she's obligated to pay 1/2 because that's what the separation agreement says.<P>She also proposed that she would take responsibility for keeping the dogs trimmed and clipped and would come over to the house to do this. She continued with stating that the three of us (her, me and au pair) needed to work together to make sure <son's> school work was organized. (The only time it gets disorganized is when he goes to her place.)<P>After listening to all her requests and presumptions, I told her we needed to talk in private. I asked her what her intentions were regarding working on our marriage. If she would leave the door open, I thought, I'd agree to almost any request - even asking the au pair to do what she wanted. She stated that the marriage was over. I asked did she intend to file for divorce when our year of separation was reached (Aug). She said yes, if not sooner. I calmly stated that I know we could recover our marriage if she would just try. She refused. I asked if there was any way she might change her mind about divorce. She replied, "No," and started to leave. I said, "OK, I will not agree to ask the au pair to come to your apartment to take <son> to school." She left in a huff and said I'd be hearing from her lawyer. At no time did I raise my voice or treat her with disrespect.<P>I've had enough. I thinking Plan B immediately, or maybe even I'll file right now based on adultery. This charade has gone on long enough. She has never admitted the affair.<P>WAT

Dave,<P>While the Plan B thing is an option to be considered after Plan A has gone on awhile, I'd take a few deep breaths regarding the "file now based on adultery" thing. I've talked about that exact thing, and at times get quite interested in seeing that box checked off on the forms. I know my wife doesn't want it to get to that.<P>From my point of view, what happened tonight is just another event in the basket of events that occur in these crazy situations. Her wanting something to make HER life easier, saying the marriage is over, saying sooner than later to file for D, and finally, leaving in a huff saying you'll hear from her lawyer. I predict that you don't hear anything from any lawyer.<P>Mine got on the bandwagon about lawyers something like 4-5 weeks ago, when she suddenly wanted official separation, and then said, "so we'll get a divorce on Nov. 1 this year?"...that would be the 1 year mark. At the time, she was just p'd off at something. Told me I'd hear from lawyer....she has abandoned that now. No two situations are the same, but to me odds are that she's just having a little hissy fit over your questioning the au pair thing....and asking what they think about the marriage is never productive.<P>I wouldn't say not to Plan B, to you or anyone that has been in Plan A for awhile, including myself. However, I can see myself in how you feel tonight, and I think that it will calm down in the next couple of days. I'm always fired up after fresh events, and want B, D, or anything but Plan A.<P>I always come back to the same thing when I get like you are right now....I don't want it to have been me that initiated the D. I want to know I did everything. You do wonder when "everything" is up, but I think Plan B is the answer before anything else is to be considered. I do have a devious side that says otherwise sometimes.<P>I know how annoying it is that the A is not admitted. It drives me crazy sometimes. And I continue to sometimes think about presenting all the evidence. But, I have not reached that position yet.<P>I'd recommend pondering anything for a couple of days, and realistically, I don't think you'll hear from her lawyer. I think she is just mad at something. I could be wrong...time will tell.<P>Take care.<P>

Dave,<P>I just read your post, and it is really late here and waaay past my bedtime, so take my comments with a grain of salt.<P>From what I can see, this incident is a perfect example of what I described in my recent post to you and Rick, about why you don't want to be in a hybrid Plan A/B. You were basically trying to be nice to her (Plan A), but you weren't able to follow through with it when she started with her stuff about the au pair, so you essentially LB'd. This is exactly why Harley told me to go to Plan B when you can't do a good Plan A. If you can't do a good Plan A, then every interaction has a better chance of becoming an LB than it does of depositing love units in her love bank.<P>Anyway, I know I am not being too helpful here, and I definitely don't mean to be a "told you so" kind of guy, but I think that this event demonstrates that you are well past the Plan A point, especially on the heels of your disagreement regarding the chest she wanted, not to mention the other HUGE LB you had a while back. I'm surprized Harley hasn't told you yet to go into Plan B.<P>I am sorry for this incident, and I agree that is definitely time for Plan B. I am at that point too, and I'll be posting my Plan B letter in the next day or so.<P>Go to Plan B to protect yourself; you are clearly past the point of being able to go with a good Plan A.<P>AGG

Dave,<P>Didn’t Steve tell you not to go to Plan B yet because of your w's grief issues that are unresolved? I think your issues as in cause of the A are so different from everyone else that it is hard to understand.<P>I worry if you go to Plan B will your wife try to enforce the separation agreement. Don’t you all have split 50/50 custody? Even though you are on the contract with au pair & she works only for you, how do you get around the 50/50 & W paying her share? Of course there still is the money she owes you. <P>I don't think you have LBed her lately (now you have done it on here where it is safe, just like you should) but then with our WS who knows what sets them off.<P>I wish I could come drive down the road & scare some sense into your W.<P>sing-still giving the folkes of Singapore lots of laughs with my driving

Thanks for your responses. I could have easily said, "yes, Honey, anything you want," and be perfect Plan A, but I've felt this need recently to stand up to her and not enable her more than I've already done. She has no recourse on the au pair thing. This is a case of reaping what you sow and I think it's high time she suffer some of the consequences of her actions. I have forgiven her for the affair she won't admit, yet she refuses to participate in counseling or see the carnage she has caused. I know, Rick, it's never productive to talk about the relationship until they're ready - but I was willing to make some compromises if she was willing to do some work. But she refused, so I feel no obligation to kiss her butt any more. We were going no where as it was. Something has to change, so I decided to play hard ball with her and let her squirm for awhile. She knows that she's behind the 8 ball in a legal setting. I have an excellent chance of getting full custody and I will seek it if she files. It was just time for her to be confronted with some hard reality. I almost feel a sense of relief that it could be over.<P>Dave

Dave, you have been trying so hard for so long, and have been doing really great! I'm glad that you stood up to her on the issues with the au pair, because I agree totally that enabling her is only going to make the scenario drag on longer. It does get to the point if the WS refuses to do any work on your marriage, that you do have to, in a sense, let go and move on. I know that you still want to reconcile with your W, and I pray that happens for both of you. While she's still so deep in the fog, you need to focus on yourself and your son.<P>BTW, what did you find out regarding meds yesterday?

Dave,<BR>I don’t have that much of the advice, but what I want to say to you is to do whatever you see fit. There is a time where enough is enough and that time may be here now. I know you want your marriage to work and start a new life together for the benefit of everyone in your family, me too. But like AGG said plan A is fine as long as you don’t LB, but how long can we keep plan Aing without LB before it is affective. If it carried out for so long the WS got used to it and took for granted that it was OK to be in this mode (in their point of view), but for us, deep down inside, it was not what we want to see or it was not the type of messages we want to send. <P>Well, maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about.<P>OOOO<BR>

Dave,<P>I know the time for you is now very hard.<P>Don't make decisions in anger... ever.<P>However; if you know that you will not be able to control yourself...<BR>...in a half-decent Plan A...<BR>...it may be time for Plan B.<P>About filing under "adultery"...<BR>...in my state... (it is grounds)...<BR>...my attorney suggested I not use it, since in 99.9% of the case it will be denied (by the adulterer) in court.<BR>...(strange thing about my W... she didn't deny it)<BR>...your W will almost certainly deny it!<BR>...and in any case... it has no bearing on custody or property settlement.<P>Is your current settlement formal? (i.e. signed/notarized?)<BR>If not...<BR>...you can start from scratch once you file.<BR>If custody is major issue...<BR>...documentation that your are providing for more than 1/2 of primary care activities... is the key.<P>You have my prayers...<P> <P>Jim

WAT -<P>Hang in there. I just got to this. I have to kind of agree with Agoodguy. It's becoming more and more difficult to Plan A your wife. I think she needs boundaries. Let her talk to her lawyer about the au pair and about the separation agreement and other financial matters - and she'll see that right now she has it pretty easy.<P>I would hold off on filing any kind of divorce. She's the one who wants this - not you - let her file. Let her be the one to dissolve the marriage - not you.<P>I also agree with NSR - don't make any decisions out of anger. I, personally, am glad you stood up to her on the Au Pair issue. I think you handled the situation very well, under the circumstances. I think a shot of reality might help, but just make sure that's the route you want to take.<P>I understand the unresolved grief issues - and that's what makes this really hard. But don't file anything against her - if your goal is to still save your marriage.

Hi Jim, thanks for your response. It wasn't so much that I couldn't control myself or got angry, I just felt it was time (or even overdue) to set a boundry to stand up to her in contrast to the almost always agreeable, but enabling Plan A. A change was needed and denying her something necessitated by her choices seemed to be just what the doctor ordered. You play the role, you pay the toll. LB? Certainly. Reality? In spades! She will no longer have her cake and eat it, too.<P>Dave

SKM - I was replying to Jim when you posted. Thanks for your vote of confidence. Something needed to change. You sound a little hesitant about the shot of reality. The "route" I want to take is to re-establish some respect - if not from her, for myself. We'd been going no where for the last several months. She's had it easy for too long and I think she needs to pay some tolls. Maybe I'm wrong and departing from strict MB principles, but she needs something to get her thinking. It may backfire, but my Plan A worked to make me a better father and man. Now I need to flex some muscle.<P>Dave

Dave,<P>OK, it's morning now, and I can think a bit more clearly than in my first response . However, my premise is still the same. In Plan A, you try to meet your WS's EN's and avoid LB's. It is NOT the time to be giving her a "reality check", because that doesn't meet her EN's. I KNOW it feels good and right to put up the boundaries, to stop putting up with her BS. Believe me, I know! But all you're going to do is give her the impression that your Plan A was a fake!<P>You should not be a doormat in Plan A, but you also have to realize that your WS gets to decide what is an LB, and by my count, these days you are giving her a lot of things that she can consider LB's. I'm not saying your actions are wrong, I'm just saying they are LB's to her. So what is your goal, to be right or to save your marriage? <P>In Plan A you want to make her feel safe to come back to the marriage, not to teach her a lesson. Do you think she is getting closer to feeling safe with you, or is she feeling a wall being erected between the two of you? I don't know if Plan B is the answer, but I think you need to either make your contacts with her more memorable (in a good way ), or stop contacts if they are becoming LB's (Plan B)...<P>BTW, if you think I am preaching to you, think again! I am in the EXACT same position as you, where I am finding that I want to give my now-separated W a reality check of being on her own, yet she keeps pushing for more contact with me, which only annoys me. This is why Harley told me to go to Plan B, although I have to admit that knowing my W, she will view Plan B as a way to blame everything on me (as in "AGG cut off all contact and thus any chance for reconciliation"). So I am actually thinking of "sucking it up", and making all of our contacts be as good as they can be (Plan A). It is a really hard decision to make, but I do think it needs to be either/or, not a hybrid.<P>Good luck!<P>AGG<BR>

dave,<P>Have you heard anymore from your wife yet? Gotten that call from her lawyer?<P><BR>Why do you think you have a good case for full custody? <P>Your son is 12, how old does he have to be before he can choose what he wants? I know that my son knew that at 16 he could decide what he wanted if/when he wanted to see his dad.<P>Your son is lucky to have 1 sane parent.<BR>

Hey Wat...<BR>Our situation is so similar it seems. My W wants to have absolutely NO RESPONSIBILITY on days that she has to work. She works 3 days a week, 12 hour shifts. Won't take the kids the night before she has to work and doesn't take them at all on work days. All the care of those two little beingss goes to me on those days. She keeps saying it's the best thing for the kids...but we both know that it is really whats best fo her. I picked them up last night at 7 because W had to sork today. Funny how she was all dressed up when we met...can't spend the night with her kids, but can find time to probably go out somewhere.<P>You are doing a great job. If you need to plan B, then DO IT!!!!! In the big picture the children know who is the responsible one. Later on she will be sorry, as will my <BR>wife. <P>Best of luck...don't let her get you down...she's all screwed up!!!! Who knows if our W's will ever come unscrewed. We can still survive!!!!<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>the probability of someone watching you...is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions

Dave,<P>Vent, rant, rave and dream, but don't you dare file! You have fought so hard for so long that I couldn't stand to see you do that. If she truly wants a D, you will have made it easier for her and taken the guilt away. If she doesn't, you have described her as pretty stubborn and she may well call your bluff.<P>It may be time for plan B though. I think after they move out, it often takes a significant event to pierce the fog. That may be plan B. I think plan B makes it tough for WS to blame lots of those every day things on the BS that fuel their rationalizations. <P>As always, don't make any decisions for a couple of days. But I hope if you change plans it is to B and not D.

WAT,<BR>I agree with the others, Plan B maybe in order here. I semi agree she needs to understand what reality is. I missed somewhere why w can't take s to school. She should be responsible if he is with her.<P>mbtrk, my x works the same schedule as your w. When she has to work at night the kids are home around lunch time because she has to rest. The kids are 13 & 10, its not like she has to breast feed or change their diapers.<P>My d has started going over when x has to work in 7a and x has dropped d off here 2 of 3 times. The first time I had to go and get d at x's house because x had left for work and d wasn't ready, so I was "elected" to pickup d and take her to school. X leaves for work way before school starts.

Thanks for all the well-thought-out responses.<P>As is typical for us, the light of the next day brought both of us, I think, some clearer thinking. Coincidently, we were forced into several conversations that ended up making us look like Keystone Cops. <P>First, our son got a piece of potato chip in his eye at school (7th graders are capable of amazing feats - not to worry, it turned out to be no big deal). My wife was called and she tried to contact the au pair to take him to the doctor, but didn't know her cell number (it used to be HER phone, duh...). I was away from work in a meeting with my cell off, but I got home early to several messages from my wife on the real phone. The most recent message was very terse - she was madder than a wet hen at the au pair because she didn't pick him up on time from school, much less get him early to take him to the doctor. (Actually, on Tuesdays, he has lacrosse practice and the au pair picks him up after that - she didn't know about the eye problem.) I called the au pair and she was just arriving at the school and then going to the doctor's office (she had come home and heard the first phone message from my wife). Then I called my wife and updated her. By that time she remembered lacrosse practice and had cooled off from being mad at the au pair - actually she admitted to feeling pretty stupid. I told her I'd meet them at the doctor's office. She asked me to please erase the answering machine message where she fussed at the au pair so she wouldn't hear it. I told her her secret's safe with me. Throughout, our conversation was very good, so I took a chance and told her that we need to talk some more. I had concluded that my attempt at a reality check the night before probably just provoked her, as AGG suggests. "We both said things last night that maybe we'd like to try over," I said, "I was harsh because you slammed the door on me." "Well, you slammed the door on me first," she replied, "from there it was all down hill." "OK," she said,"but I can't talk now because I have to get back to work." <P>Later, she called me at home asking if I still had some medicine left over from my shoulder separation because her mother needed some and couldn't find hers. I found it and she said she'd come get it. Not too long afterwards she called back and said nevermind, her Dad had found it.<P>Throughout these conversations, she seemed a lot more friendly and cooperative - almost to the point of being talkative. This morning she's called me at work already asking me to call <son> to make sure his eye is still OK before he goes to school.<P>I think two things happened. I was successful at giving her a dose of reality, but we both may have over-reacted in a defensive response. I'm going to try soon to re-engage her in a conversation associated with <son's> busy schedule and hope we can put this behind us. Maybe the reality check did some good.<P>Still Plan A for now.<P>Dave

Good news, Dave! I'm glad that you both realized that some of the things were said in anger and aren't what both of you really want. I know when H and I have bad days (like this weekend) all I want is for the whole thing to just be over. When things cool down, I am able to see things much clearer.<P>You are doing great! Keep up Plan A, and maybe the dose of reality has begun to lift a little of the fog.....

Dave,<P>Glad you son is all right. Have to admit I had a little chuckle, chip in the eye, kids they can do the most amazing unbelievable acts. Sort of sounded like something that would happen to my OS.<P>I would have love to see your W back tracking trying to cover herself with the au pair. Nice of you to cover for her. glad you both backed off a bit.<P>good luck