Hello and further thanks to everyone who has listened to my story, offered advice and support. I've managed a few weeks of no contact now, and I must say the fog is thinning rapidly and the objectivity that accompanies it is both wonderful and frightening. Withdrawal has been tough at times, I won't argue that, but something happened today that, in its own way, changes everything. I think there's a step two in personal recovery, and if step one is withdrawal, the next step is realization. In my case, it's a realization of what a nightmare I might have been setting myself up for (divorce, scandal, shame, turmoil, who knows what hell from ex husbands, jilted lovers and other factors I don't even know might have existed) followed by a realization of how shamefully (not a strong enough word) cold I was to the woman who truly loved me during my ridiculous EA. Today it hit me how close I came to losing everything and to how stupid (STUPID!) I was to be in that situation. I am seeing things very clearly now, and I am shocked (ashamed) of what I see. I cannot believe what a pack of fantasies I was wrapping myself up in. I cannot believe what a load of garbage I was feeding myself. I have never felt like such a fool. <P>Here's my advice to any WS who is riding the fence and doesn't know what to do: begin no contact today and just watch what happens. It's only been a few weeks for me and I can already see what an idiot I was. The more the fog lifts, the more I realize that the EA made my life hell. It made me hate myself. The whole "relationship" was tumultuous. My marriage had trouble, but it still had peace. I'd say peace is a better place to start than hell. What a fool.<P>Thanks to everyone for helping me see things clearly. I couldn't regret that emotional attachment more than I do. It was definitely not worth what I'm feeling right now. I can only imagine now bad things would have been if it had "progressed." WSs, get out. Go back to the people who love you. Just go back.<P>There's my vent/update. Color my face red.<P><BR>Clarity?

HI CLARITY,<P> Welcome back to EARTH. By what my H tells me. You are right on the money!<P> I saw it on my H's face. I was devestated and said I was leaving now. He wondered why? I said "you don't tell your W you love another woman."<P> He said "MY GOD, what did I do to you?" He looked shocked.<P> God Bless you <P> Lots of Prayers and Hugs!!!!!!!!!!!<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Deb

Clarity,<P>Oh how I wish I could transplant your brain into my husband's brain. He is double fogged. <P>He stopped his A with OW#1 early Fed (after about a year) and immedidately picked up #2 (and lives with her now). He thinks I am the looney one for not just moving on with my life. Let's just get this over, there has been too much pain and hurt on both sides.<P>Well, dear H, the hurt has just started. We tell the kids (5,3,2) tonight that dadddy is moving out.<P>Would you be able to describe your experience as to why you stayed and how it was each day as the fog lifted. Was it like a light bulb when off in your head? Did spouse do something ie Plan B or A or something else that started the ball rolling in the right direction.<P>A WS man point of view is very helpful to me.<P>Hopelessmom

Clarity! Please, tell me the magic words to bring my wife back from the dark side?<P>WAT

Hi everyone. Thanks for you interest and support. I don't have much time right now, but I have enough time to say that part of coming out of it for me was growing up and taking responsibility for my actions. Very simply, when I was involved in the EA I was miserable! MISERABLE! I knew it was wrong the whole time and I am a smart enough person to know that something rooted in such misery has no future. I couldn't eat anything, I couldn't sleep, I hated myself, and I knew my conscience was torn to pieces. Great start for a relationship! When I came to this site and started reading I discovered that the things I was feeling and thinking weren't unique at all and that there were hundreds of people throwing around ridiculous phrases like "OP is my soulmate" and "I love you, but I'm not in love with you." I also read plenty of stories about people who thought that way and had acted on those illusions and had reaped misery for it. I ended things because that was the right thing to do. Almost immediately I felt lighter inside. I wasn't ashamed of myself anymore. Now, what do you think was meant to be: a relationship full of self-loathing and misery or a life of peace? My W was trying to fix things the whole time without even really knowing what was going on and I was [censored] enough to ignore her efforts. I knew all along that she didn't deserve what I was doing to us, and when I saw her cry about it broke my heart. Is there any better indication of love? I stayed because I couldn't leave, and that was the best decision anyone has ever made in history. I hate what I did. It's hitting me now more and more every second. <P>It also helped me to read posts by BSs and to realize what I was putting my wife through and what I might have put both of us through if it had gone any further. That woke me up in a hurry. My wife is perfect for me. She always was. There is no better person on Earth and I am lucky to even know her, let alone be married to her. We're working on the problems we had and are already making tremendous progress. Like I said, I couldn't regret what I did more than I do.<P>Hopelessmom, I don't know what to say to you. There are no kids in my situation and there was no PA. I don't know what it takes to leave three small children. I can only imagine how awful that is. I hate the fog. The fog almost ruined my whole life and my wife's whole life too. I married her for a reason. I loved her. That doesn't go away. With effort, with maturity, with a commitment to doing what is RIGHT, I know for a fact that it can be recovered and made stronger.<P><BR> <P>

Hi again,<P> It makes me cry.<BR> <BR> Here is what I wish my H had said:<P> Sweety-face,<P> For awhile there I was madly in love. Then I woke up and realized something. I was madly in love, with my own wife, of 20 years. I am so sorry for the way I treated someone who has loved me and stood by me for 20 years!!!! <P> Anyway you get my drift. Hugs and Prayers to you<P>------------------<BR>Deb

Clarity;<P>I need a hint...or a thread to hold on to, at least! How long before the feelings of remorse? I ended a long term [2 year] EA over three months ago. Perhaps I phrased that wrong. Quite honestly, it ended not because I wanted to, but because the man I was involved with was much stronger than I and gave me no choice. I know I SHOULD feel ashamed. I SHOULD feel remorse, but I don't yet. The fog is beginning to lift for me. My husband is winning me back very quickly...by using Plan A tactics. Once I came clean with my relationship, my husband stopped doing many of the things that had slowly but surely pushed me away from him through our years together. The major thing he changed was that he no longer bullies me with "disrespectful jusgements". I think at this point he loves me enough to take me just the way that I am....warts and all. I am trying to continue to meet all of his needs....and I think I'm doing a good job. I am concerned, however, that I just don't feel the guilt that you talked about when you awoke from your fog. Is there something wrong with me?

Clarity,<BR>Your words fill me with hope that someday my H's fog will lift and he will realize what he has to lose; the unconditional love of a wife for almost 25 yrs. and the peace, happiness and friendship we've shared too. I wish I could convince him to visit this forum but he won't. He doesn't want to face guilt although he has said he was sorry for all the hurt he has caused me. You know the usual "I never meant to hurt you". Who did he intend to hurt then or did he think I wouldn't be hurt by this? Don't know. He won't talk about us, or his feelings or how to devise a plan to work on the recovery of our marriage.<P>So sad; but now you've given me hope that someday he will see the sun again! Thanks so much for your post.

I'm not really sure how to answer your questions, C&I. My EA ended because I ended it, and there is remorse inherent in that decision. Your EA went on for about four times as long as mine did and your situation is different from mine. There are contributing factors that do make each situation different. Would you have ended your EA yourself or were you content to let it keep going? If that wasn't a decision you could have made yourself, you probably didn't want your EA to end. It's hard to regret something you didn't want to let go of.<P>My remorse is based on my knowledge that I hurt someone and jeopardized a marriage for nothing but an illusion. My remorse is rooted in the love I have for my wife. Now, I didn't feel it right away, because I was too absorbed in my own selfish withdrawal (still thinking like a WS) to give much thought to anyone else. When I put some distance between myself and the OW I began to change as a person in a lot of ways. I started to recover myself. Like I said, I felt lighter. I started to smile again. I started to feel good about myself and my situation. I compared those feelings to the way I was feeling during the EA and I KNEW that ending it was the right thing to do. From that sense of rightness (and my prayers and the advice of the people here and my efforts to meet my wife's needs) began to come the feelings of love I have for her. When I realized what I'd done to her love for me, the shame, guilt and anger started. It's based on love, I&C. That's really all I can say. If I didn't love her I wouldn't have been so miserable when I was wayward and I wouldn't regret what I did to her faith in me like I do.<P>You're coming off a longer EA than I had and into a different situation. I know that as you continue to come out of the fog and continue to work on your marriage your love can return, and with it will come the sense of accountability and regret that I'm talking about. Work on your reality. Forget your illusions.

Sorry, Aries. We were posting at the same time! All I can tell you for sure is that the fog can lift. I know it and so do many people on this web site. Keep posting and keep reading. There is strength in these people. Thanks for your post, too.

Clairty;<P>Thanks for your response. You are right, I would not have ended the relationship I had with OM...I was perfectly content to have this man as the primary source for conversation, affection [non-physical] and admiration in my life. Fortunately my husband is now doing a pretty good job at filling those needs. <P>What guilt I feel now is for his wife and children...that I took the time and energy away from them that they deserved, and that I could have potentially destroyed their family. <P>I still pray daily that the gravity of what I might have lost with MY husband will become real to me. As for now, I just feel numb. <P>Clarity, One big difference I notice in my post and yours is that you refer to your EA as an "illusion". Had I been given any reason to be critical or disillusioned by the other man perhaps the letting go would be easier.<P>You know, If someone else had written this post....and I had just been reading it I would assume that the author was either not in love with their spouse....or simply had no conscience. Neither of these assumptions would be true. <P>I think a big part of the delay in my recovery is that I had completely "walled myself off" from my relationship with my husband. Prior to our working through "His Needs/ Her Needs" We lived parallel lives with very little interaction. Every time I got close, I got hurt (criticized or belittled) and I simply closed myself off from him a little further. Not to worry, things are much better now. My husband is chipping away at the wall on a regular basis....I have given him a set of plans for the demolition of said wall. [Thanks to several handy surveys from Marriage Builders]<P>Perhaps, deep down, I am still suspicious of my husbands sincerity [after all, I am STILL not perfect even after 20 years of trying]....perhaps I am still in the midst of the fog.

C&I, <P>Two things I can say:<P>1. It's admirable that you feel some responsibility to his family, but they are HIS problem, not yours. He chose to put his family second and it's his responsibility to clean up his own mess. Yes, you contributed to the problem, but he made his own decisions, too. You have to focus on your own home now and leave his home to him. You have enough on your plate as it is.<P>2. I think a big part of the problem for you is that you are with your husband not because you chose him, but by default. When I was in my EA I told myself that I didn't want to stay with my wife as a "fall-back" option. If I was going to make my marriage work, I wanted it to be because that's what I chose to do (the very, VERY least I could do for my wife). You would have been content to let things go as they were, which tells me you didn't have the commitment to your marriage that you needed to have. Now you're back in the marriage but you probably haven't ended things with the OM in your head and your heart. You can't make the effort you need to make without honestly choosing your husband.<P>Now, you're in your marriage kind of by accident, but I think it's a blessing anyway. Your husband is trying to make it work, but are you? You say you've made a plan for him to chip away at your walls. Good. What plan have you made to meet his needs? One of the most valuable lessons I've learned on this site is that you have to work to get the feelings back, they don't just magically "appear" with the wave of a wand. Pour yourself actively into your marriage. Be the best wife for your husband you can possibly be ("Fake it 'till you make it" if you have to). My love re-blossomed when I started spending my energy trying to meet my wife's needs, trying to make her fall back in love with me even though she'd never stopped loving me to begin with. Now more than ever you have to be active. Go to your husband, don't be content to let him come to you.<P>You can't sit and wait for the numbness to go away. Force it away with your own actions. Whether you came back to it by accident or by design, you're in your marriage and the OM is in his. I believe this is where both of you should be. Trust the rightness of it and put yourself to work, even if you don't really feel it yet. That's the best advice I can give.

Clarity;<P>Thanks so SO much for your reply. Once again you nailed it! Everything you said was right on the mark....with one small exception. I have been putting everything I have [am] into improving my marriage. My husband thinks it is perfect....but then, he always has thought that. <P>One statement that you made really shook me..."I think a big part of the problem for you is that you are with your husband not because you chose him, but by default". I think this observation hit home more than anything, but I don't know what to do with it. You are right....I have 'fallen-back' into my marriage....not really wanting to be here. Another place I don't want to be is with the other man. He is definitely not for me. <P>I think the most poignant affect that this EA has had on me is that I no longer feel as if I have a place. I'm in an emotional abyss....of my own making. <P>Your advice to force the numbness away is much easier said than done. But, I'm sure you know that. I think I am on the right course. I'll will continue to "Fake it 'till [I] make it". <P>Thanks again!

Clarity! and C&I - I've been enjoying your conversation and I just wanted to let you know how vital it is for BSs to have you on this board. If not for WSs, I would have gone to the funny farm long ago. Some days I think that there is no way my wife will ever come out of the fog - I just can't see her in my mind getting humble, or even realizing what she's done. Then I read another post from a WS who just can't believe what they did, and I get new hope. Will one of you please figure out a way to bottle the antidote?<P>WAT

C&I-<BR>I'm also a WS. I had an EA that lasted almost as long as yours. My A was discovered and D-day was about a year ago. We are recovering, but I just dropped in on Clarity?'s thread to say I've dealt with a lot of the same feelings you have. I'm doing the best I can to meet my H's EN's and vise-versa. Sometimes, though, I wonder if it is enough. I sometimes still feel numb and wonder where I'm going. I love my H, too. I have a conscience, too. I walled myself off, too. I can understand your statement about the A not being an illusion. I have been working at trying to understand what I need to do to be content and happy with me, and be a good W and mother. I've learned a few things in the past months, but there is still a great deal for me to work out. I don't have any advice (and certainly no antidote!), but I thought I'd drop in as another struggling WS.

Hi folks,<BR>I too want to say that I feel tremendous compassion for WSs coming out of their fogs and have been helped by them in understanding my H (and myself!) more than other BSs have been able to help me. I am so proud of my H for dealing with the mess he made and for starting to let me know what he needs from me. Actually, I've learned more about what he might need from other WSs than even from him. We are doing pretty well after 21 months of both of us being committed to recovery but of course have more to straighten out. Pls keep posting guys and gals!

C&I<P>I don't mean to imply that forcing the numbness away is easy. It requires a lot of work, especially when you're not even sure you're where you want to be. I can only speak for my own experience, and this is all new to me, too. Sometimes you have to break it down to the most basic things in order to get through. For me, it was the feeling I had that what I was doing was right. One of the worst things about the EA for me was feeling like I had no integrity, like I was a bad person. When things ended, I started to feel good about myself again. When I think of the difference between the way I felt then and the way I feel now there's no comparison. This is the feeling of doing the right thing. I don't know what it's like for you. I don't know if you felt about yourself the way I felt about myself when I was wayward. How did you feel? How do you feel about yourself now?<P>Here's something else I did that helped me put things in perspective. I looked at my story as if I was reading about some other person. What did I see? Nothing to be proud of. I looked at my story from the perspective of my wife, like she was writing in as a BS about how her husband who she loves has shut her off and is giving his attention to the OW. I imagined her writing about feeling alone and heart broken. I imagined her asking the others on here for advice about Plan A and what she should do. It made me sick to think of me being the WS in that scenario and it still makes me sick to think of how close I might have come to putting her through that. <P>WSs talk about fate a lot. They say things like "we were meant to be" and "fate brought us together". Rubbish. Fate brought us to our spouses. Our spouses are trying. I'm thrilled to have my wife and my marriage back and the relief I have from being out of my EA is tremendous. Sometimes you just do the right thing and content yourself with that and trust that your efforts will bear fruit. My efforts did, and they continue to bear it more every day. Thanks, Fate, for introducing me to my wife.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Today it hit me how close I came to losing everything and to how stupid (STUPID!) I was to be in that situation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yep. Not just losing, but <B>actively</B> throwing your life away.<P>And for confused & insecure... my withdrawal lasted about 9 months or so. My OW was also the one who ended things. Stick with it, and you <B>will</B> look back on your thought process in amazement. The Brain Worm <B>does</B> sometimes make its way out... <P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited March 29, 2001).]

Wow what a great post- very insight full and helpfull for both sides. <P>I think that one of the biggest lessons that my H is learning and myself as well is that if there is a hole inside we are the ones that need to fill it. A good marriage is one in which both parites needs are being met- however if we as individuals can not meet our own needs or if we do not even understand what they are how can we meet others or ever feel fulfilled? I agree that it is coming out of the fog is aided by no contact and giving back to your marriage- yet I think it also should be self reflective. Asking yourself what it is that you really want out of life, out of yourself- then out of a marriage. I think that is also why affair usually do not work out because they are based purly on getting something from someone else. How many of you would have gotten into an A if you really knew enough about yourself, what you wanted and what you stood for. It is sad because usually someone getting into an A is at a very vunerable and unstable place within themselves- the quick fix is an A. However just like any harmfull addiction it only causes you to sink lower. I think that the escape that an A creates is hard to give up because let face it life is hard. All I know is that when push comes to shove it is all worth to know your heart is pure and clean and that you still have someone who is willing to love and take you as you are.<P>Joyful

Thanks all...Clarity you asked me the following:<BR>"How did you feel?" I guess you mean during my EA...well, I felt like someone cared about my opinion, my goals, my ideals. I wanted to learn those things about him also. I never felt guilty about my relationship, I still don't. I do know that I would have if we had been intimate. But by then I would have been too far gone to recover my sanity. A bit of background, he was my coach for two years. What started as a business relationship evolved into a deep friendship, then more....we knew what was happening after the first year, but didn't stop. Contrary to what most people involved in an EA might think, I do NOT believe in fate. He was a successful professional in my sport and agreed to help me reach my athletic potential after seeing me at a race. <P>You also asked; "How do you feel about yourself now?" Absolutely impoverished! <P>I have also looked at my situation from the outside. I see my own selfishness, my narcissism! It is not a pretty site. You must know that I would never have hurt my husband this way intentionally. I cannot undo what I have done to my relationship or to myself. Actually more damage was done to my psychie than anything....it is unreal! I still regress on a daily-no hourly- basis. Every song, every training session, everything takes me back. Do you think a lobotomy would help? Seriously, I guess it will just time, time, time and hard work.<P>Clarity, I am printing off your first post on this thread and keeping it. I will read it on a regular basis and try to be patient until I can get where you are now. Thanks for the hope!