Hi All,<P>My ex-h and I have moved back in together (for about 3 months now) and trying to work on our relationship. However, we are still at the "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" stage (him). <P>I am afraid that my ex and I have different opnions on what "being in love" really is. Just wondering if any of you could offer your opinions on whether we are just spinning our wheels or whether to stick it out since he is not "in love with me anymore." <P>I would love to hear from people on both sides, wayward spouses and betrayed. <P>

Tulip,<P>Well I am sure you will hear a lot of people say that THE "In Love Feeling" is the the butterfly, fantasy feeling you get out of the relationship in the beginning, which is really the infatuation part. You have to grow to Love someone and True Love is a commitment, respect, and honor.<P> Personaly I have never believed in the "In Love" statement, either you love someone and work on the relationship or you dont. There are many types of love, love for friends, kids, family, however the Love you have for a Spouse or SO is totally different do to Intimacy. I do believe you feel you are In Love in a new relationship.<P> When I met my H I said I was in love, I had butterflies, couldn't sleep without him, talked every moment we could, kissed all the time, held hands, we were like little kids. As we grew, married, had children, and dealt with everday life as a married couple do, it was because of the Love we had for each other we were a team and had a family to raise.<P> When all the real life things come into play we always tend to say we fell out of love. That is why we hear so many of the WS say I love you , BUT I am not in Love with you. They feel the sense of In Love with OP because it is a new relationship, no strings, just fun and games, acting like that litle kid again. Ths is mearly excitement and hormones talking.<P>My Husband told me he loved me and was in love with me up until the day he moved out, after the PA started with OW he loved me but was not "in Love" with me. I am sure he is In love with her now for what ever it is worth. In the beginning we say this to our partner to reassure them that it is true love, who hasn't enjoyed hearing I AM IN LOVE WITH YOU!! Somehow it sounds more deep, however the IN LOVE statement is always the ice breaker at the end of the relationship, seems to be the typical phrase that rationalizes most break ups. This is the most confusing statement that exists.<P>You said this is your Ex H I am curious to know more of your story, How long where you divorced, why you divorced, how you ended up back together. Your story could help a lot of people here. If you have an original thread I would love to read it.<P>Diana

Diana,<P>Thanks for your reply. I used to be on this website A LOT, but finally got to the point of "moving on" and quit coming around very much. You can search some of my older threads under my user name. I have gone back and read some of those threads and wonder why I am not the one "not in love with him." Mainly because of all the pain I felt during those months. <P>But in a nutshell, my divorce was final last June. We divorced because my H moved out and left my children and myself to live with ow (who, BTW, was also married). She moved here from another state and left her family. Their relationship lasted about 14 months and finally ended. About 5 months after our divorce was final, my ex and I started talking again. Since then, he has moved back home and we are "trying to salvage the relationship. <P>The problem is: he still has "feelings for the ow. And is still has some contact with her. I am pretty sure those feelings probably won't return for me until she is out of the picture completely!<P>I agree with you totally. It is a very confusing statement. Fortunately, right now, my ex is willing to stick around and keep trying to find whatever it is he is looking for. I don't completely understand what that is since I have a different idea of what being in love really is. My beliefs are basically the same as yours, and not this "I have to be with you every second feeling."<P>Please feel free to ask me anything. I would be more than happy to help anyone that I can from my experiences with infidelity. Again, Diana, I really appreciate your insight!<P>

My H moved out about 6 weeks ago. We are now talking almost daily and spending some time together each weekday. I know my H feels the same way. He loves me but is no longer in love with me. I believ3e thePA started about 4 months ago. Six months ago I would have not only said he is in love with me but that he adores me! What a change today! His having sex with her made him feel so much closer to her. I don't know what to do to break through these feelings for her other than to try to become his best friend again and I'm wondering if I became sexually involved with him again if would feel closer to me again- would he at least feel that he's in love with both of us? Anyway, I suggest that you plan A him and work on intimacy of all kinds.

Tulip,<P>Why is he still contacting W? Are you guys in counceling or applying MB principles together? I read your most recent post, about the pregnancy, Are you 100% sure?<P>It sounds like H is still to involved with OW, with continuing to contact her he is only prolonging his healing as well as yours. Did she go back to her family?<P>On the infedelity thing boy have I learned a lot, I went through this back in 90 with my H. He was nothin but remorsefy=ul we totally healed from it and had a great 8 yrs together. He had some issues with it, after he moved out I had found out from 2 of my closest friends that he used to talk to them about his guilt for the A, and here we are again. He does not consider what he is doing now as cheating, because he moved out before the relationship started with OW.<P>She is his boss, so I think the EA sarted at work, she is a recovering Alcoholic and he had only been sober for 1 month before he moved out. He claims his sobriety woke him up and he realized he was unhappy in the marriage and I was the reason he drank... Yeah right. He has a lot of issues from his upbringing.<P>It is true, I wander sometimes myself how I can love this man. He has been a lousy father, and we have not seen each other in 3 months, had a 2 min conversation one day and that has been it.<P>Once I found out OW moved in I said forget this! I went straight to plan B, no letter even. Just went into hiding..<P>I am at the point that whatever happens, happens.. He has yet to file for divorce.<P>Well I hope your situation works out for you, It sounds as if your husband is half way there hopefully time will set him straight. He does need to cut off contact with her.<P>Diana

Diana,<P>Well, I took two pregnancy test and both were positive. Of course, I can't be completely certain until I see the doc, but I can say I'm pretty sure. I went to the Dr. about 2 weeks ago for "extreme fatigue". Now, I think I know why. I have always gotten extremely tired early on in pregnancy. Of course, at the time I really did even consider being pregnant. They did a whole bunch of tests and found nothing wrong, but of course there was no pregnancy test.<P>As far as the contact with ow, I am fairly certain that the contact is mainly by phone, but contact nevertheless. He told me tonight he is not in love with ow or me. I think the man is in a hopeless state of confusion. No, she has not returned to her family. Her H will not have her back and he is getting custody of the kids. My ex at one time called her h and apologized for everything (I was on the phone). Her h just cussed him out and threatened to kill my ex. This is after he knew about the affair for over a year. So, I wonder if the ow gets the same reception from her H. They very obviously had major problems before this happened. I really just feel sorry for their kids. You would not believe the unnecessary trauma they have experienced. Personally, having seen what both ow and her h are like, I don' think either should be parents!<P>Anyway, enough about that. I, like you, have been through this before, but my ex was remorseful then too. We were very young when we got married (16 & 18) so I tried to rack it up as being young and stupid. You know, I wonder what it is about this "I've been unhappy" crap that always comes flying out when there is an op involved. I guess it is just that the op brings out the "I can act like an idiot and have no responsiblites" side of them. <P>I respect you so much for being able to go to Plan B just like that. And since your h has not filed for divorce, that probably means he really isn't that sure about the ow. I have found through all this crap that the op make those of us at home seem like the wicked witches of the west! Like they are perfect, ha! Time is the only thing we have on our sides....but sometimes it just ticks by so sloooowly.<P>You hang in there too. It sounds like you have a good grip on your life. At least as much as possible. Until your h files for divorce or you get tired of waiting, there is always hope. And even after too. <P>Take care,<BR>Tulip

Don't know how much "wisdom" I can add here...am kinda struggling myself. I know what love is but "in love"...hmmm<P>I think love,real love, is about picking a person mand making it work, thru thick and thin,thru faults and flaws,and always trying to see the good side, that surely exists, in that person. Not being a doormat but telling it like it is,and understanding that we all fall, sometimes. My H is a good man who did a terrible thing, to me and himself. He says he always loved me but wasn't in love with me.(Like they all say) Truth is, he didn't like me...focused on my flaws and faults and did not see anything good in me, after he met her online,maybe before,too. He saw me as a person who would never change. Maybe "in love" is about like first. <BR>He says now he is in love with me as well as he loves me. I Love him, always have,but I struggle with in love. He doesn't make me feel giddy or butterflies in the stomach,like before his A. I'm not about to give up on our M but I wonder if those feelings of mine will come back. Maybe for the first time in our 28 year M, I will fall in love with the person he really is and not the person I built up in my mind and heart. <BR>

Tulip, <P>Well I think with 2 test showing positive, and of course you knowing your own body it is inevitable I could not even imagine going through that right now. Just be good to yurself and stay healthy both physically and emotionally. I know easier said then done.<P>H and I were married very young too (19). I already had a child and he took her on as his own. We had our son at 21 and that is when the first affair started, he lost his job the day I gave birth and we struggled off of unemployment and me doing side jobs. He went through major depression and I withdrew from him. I went out with my single friends alot and he ended up in bed with our 16 yr old neighbor. After me throwing him out and his suicide attempt(which I think was more for attention) We tried to work it out. In <BR>2 years later I had had enough and packed his stuff up. Moved and began a new life. We were seperated for 6 mos and he begged to come back. Since then we had a great marriage, some fighting but it was mostly over his guilt for the pain he had caused. We became the All American family. In 97 once my youngest started school fulltime I went to work fulltime. H had big issues, mostly insecurity. He liked it when I was home all day and he knew what I was doing. Work was a major issue for him I wrked in a company with mostly males and every week I was accused of cheating with someone. Of course this was his insecurity.<P>As our lives grew, bought a house, I took on a job which allowed me to make a lot more money then him, It was almst as I became more independent he drank more. I had a hard time with his drinking( my step-father was an alcoholic) and while H was nothing like him I saw him withdrawling more from me and the kids. He would sit in the garage from the time he got home until he went to bed. So I got interested in the computer and as soon as I did he became more demanding of my time. However his way of dealing with it was to yell and slam stuff down. No comunication whatsoever. After sa year of this I had withdrawn.<P>Then my family got in a mess and I had my mother, sis, and my nephew living here. Major strain but we were doing OK. I had a very stressful job, so I quit and got a better one, family moved out, and he stopped drinking. I thought we were finally on our way again and Boom! He dropped the bomb. He was moving out. Needed a seperation to figure things out.<BR>1 1\2 months later ge is dating his boss. Once this was brought out in the open it brought up all those old feelings. I did the plan B right from there. I had too vecause he was blaming me for the fact that my kids wanted nothing to do with him, every phone call I tried to be as pleasent and loving as I could. I was only able to Plan A for about a month because the nicer I was the nastier he got. I figured this was due to his own guilt. I just could not listen to his crap anymore and to rotect myself and the kids from the fighting I just cut myself off from him..<P>I figure he is going through a lot so let OW deal with him. He claims his anger and drinking was my fault, well without me around to blame foe everything I figure he will realize when his happy little new life he has created will is all a fasod. His real self will come out and it will be his and OW's reality.<P>Personally I think the only reason he has not filed is because he knows he will have to pay child support, he does not make ,uch and OW is already paying half, so he will lose more money to go to concerts, buy new clothes, take weekend gettaways, and pierce his body. He is gonna be 32 and has 2 children and he acts as if he is 16 again. Meanwhile everything else has become my responsibility.<P>I tell ya the insanity of these people just blows me away. I have totally gotten off track here. Back to the In Love thing, he was so In Love we were going to renew our vows this summer. This something we had been planning for quite sometime, After he got involved with OW he claimed he has not been In Love with me for years. OK! Had a funny way of showing it.<P>I think he is just selfish, insecure, and he needs to be the center of attention. Our lives did not permit that anymore and now he has it all. A new woman, no kids to interfere, and resonsibilities. Unfortunatlry it sems most of these WA's are.<P>Yes LOVE in a Marriage is what got us through all of our past termoil however he woke up one day and figured it was too tiring to do it anymore. Cowards way out, He is trully a quitter. This is how he will persue the rest of his life after 13 years of hard work he had it pretty good and now he chose to start all over again. I have come to believe this is how he will be for the rest of his life. When things don't go your way Move On.<P> This is a trait he learned from his parents and granparent. He did tell me the only reason he was not dead or in prison was because of me. I was the ony one who kept him focused all these years. I do hope one day he is happy, but he does need to find it within himself, he has always seem to validate himself by his possesions. He could never control me and I think that was his biggest frustration. He never had much self worth and we all know you cannot obtain that because of another person.<P>Love Yourself and the whole world can Love you. He truly tried to destroy any love that was given to him, always kept his distance from friends and family. He would tell me he loved me 5-10 times a day and only told my children that once in a blue moon.<P>Ok I am done now. I do hope that each and everyone of us here wether with our spouses or not find the happiness we deserve. I know I fond it a little easier everyday. I have a different relationship with my children now and I enjoy it that gives me a great feeling.<P>Your new child could be a blessing in disguise Tulip, I truly believe everything happens for a reason and God would not give you this gift if there was not a light at then end of your tunnel. Keep positive and take care of yourself.<P>Diana<BR>

Diana,<P>Your story sounds so familiar. I think the main difference is that I came from the divorced family and not him. He says that his parents should have never stayed together because they fought non-stop when his dad was home. The rest of the time his dad worked as to stay away from the house. I'm sure this was hard, but at least they didn't just "move on" as you said. For the most part, I think divorce is worse on the kids than sticking it out. Of course, aside from physical violence, etc.<P>Well, we had our little discussion today. Basically, he is considering moving out because the feelings are just not there and it isn't fair to either of us. He says that maybe moving out would give him time to think and realize he wants to be here. He says that either way he doesn't think we need another baby right now and even though he doesn't like the idea of abortion, I should think about that option. He did say that no matter what he would stand by me and my decision. I just don't think I can do the abortion thing. I'm not against it, but I think it would have a very deep emotional impact on me. With everything else, I'm really not sure I could handle it. <P>Anyway, I am giving him a couple of the Harley's books to read tonight while he is at work. He agreed and said he would update me tomorrow on what he read. Obviously, he could not read the whole thing, but I pointed out sections that I thought played the biggest part in our relationship. Maybe....just maybe...he will gain something from reading them. <P>My ex has worked for years in the security alarm industry and finally became a supervisor. He made good money, but hated his job. So...he decided he wanted to become a police officer. He was hired but the pay is a LOT less. This is the reason he has several jobs. Since he has never done this before, he still is required to go to the police academy. He is supposed to leave in May and will be there for 12 weeks. I am hoping that since he will be away from everyone for 3 months he will have a little time to think about what is really important and what is not. And hopefully, get over some of this selfishness.<P>I think if he moves out before May, I will probably have to do a Plan B just to keep my sanity. He keeps telling me that he doesn't want to damage the friendship we have and this is one of the reasons he has not left yet. Who really knows what goes through their minds. I mean they can go from happy to hateful in about two seconds flat. <P>I know what you mean about your h trying to validate him self by his possessions. Mine is a bragger and it drives me crazy. Don't they realize that people will like them just for them and not what they have or what they've done? I know that my ex is very insecure, but he would never let anyone know that. He tries to talk himself up all the time, and it make me wonder if other people notice what he is doing too. <P>I am really beginning to think that my ex would rather have some dumb bimbo instead of me. Mainly because I am very independent around the house and pretty much take care of everything. I do the bills, take care of the kids, fix things that are broken, mow the yard (well, not this year yet! ), etc. About the only thing I depend on him for is money. I am finally in my last year of college, and right now, I am not working so I can graduate. I believe that he would prefer to have a dumb bimbo (the ow really was, like duh!!) that he can take care of and is too stupid to think on her own. Also, the fact that I have tried to finish my education has always caused some problems. Now, that I am getting ready to graduate this year, he doesn't think my going to school is so bad. <P>It sounds like both of our h are searching for something they have to obtain within themselves and not from another person. How sad and so very immature. Too bad there is not a magic potion to make them grow up and take notice! <P>Well, you'll probably be tired of my babbling by now and I need to go get the kids to bed. I do think your right though, that this baby may be a blessing in disguise. That thought has kept me in a good mood today. I just hope I can keep it up. Hope that you had a good day and take care.<P>Tulip

Tulip,<P>I am so glad you guys talked, even though it was not the most promising discussion. I would not go to plan B if he is gonna be leaving for 2 weeks. Let things ride out for now. I think that kind of time and distance will be a blessing. He does need to cut off OW completely maybe he will have some sparetime to think without any interuptions.<P>I think he will learn alot from reading the Harley books, they truly open ones eyes to a lot of things. I will tell ya what if I ever attend another wedding I am giving the bride and groom books and links to some great websites.<P>Your H sounds alot like mine, bragging, always making themselves look good to others. I think this is truly what causes them to have depression. They parade around and make people think they are something they are not. When the reality hits and they realize they can talk the talk but can't walk the walk, it has to be self destructive.<P>Well if anything I do hope he does support you in your decision about the baby. It should be good enough reason for him to get his head together. Give it time. He is gonna have some time to think when he is gone and as you grow in your pregnancy he may come around. You are lucky to at least have him willing to try.<P>I have just become a bad thought as far as my H is concerned. It is almost as if I do not exsist. However I know this is the only way he can deal with what he has done, he can't face me or even deal with me over the smallest thing, He can't even look me in the eye. When I would speak to him he would look down or fidget with something. His guilt and confusion will come in time.<P>Where are you from? I am In California.<P>Well I have a splitting headache gonna go rest a bit.<P>Take care<BR>Diana

Diana,<P>I am in Alabama. I was born in California, but have never been back. My mom has told me on many occasions that it is a wonderful state. I am determined to see that for myself one day. <P>Things have been okay around here yesterday and today. I think my ex is a bit distant, but I've just been trying to be as nice as possible. I just keep thinking...at least he is still here.<P>You stated that your h acts as if you don't exist. Mine did too. But the funny thing is, the more time that past, the more he missed me. I never even realized that. He has told me that he missed talking to me because I could hold an intelligent conversation. Also, missed me as a friend because I've been the only true friend he has ever had. Go figure that he thought ow was better. In the beginning of his affair, he told me how smart, wonderful she was. And, of course, I was stupid and a b***h! Well, she ended up being as dumb as a board and cheated on him three times in one year! <P>So...I would say that it is just a matter of time before you h realizes what he left too. I'm sure he misses you but doesn't want you to know about it. Not to mention that they have to act like jerks to be able to live with their guilt. When he sees you he is reminded of his mistakes. My ex has told me he thought I hated him and that I would only speak to him when necessary about the kids. He was right as I had gotten to that point. Since you are in Plan B so soon, your h may just come around a little quicker. I hope that he does because I know how painful it is to wonder all the time. I'm sure his relationship will not last and who will he want to lean on then? You, of course! <P>Take care.<P>Tulip

I drove through Alabama once. California is great but it is a fast paced life out here. Yes I agree with you in all that you said, it is soo true. He told me she is a good person, I feel sorry for her she has to put up with you. Whatever I went off on her when I found out about them, and the called 2 weeks later and apologized. She was his boss and a mutual friend. We had her to our home and let her swim in our pool. She met most of our friends, so needless to say they want nothing to do with her.<P>It is so strange how we as the outsiders can see what the heck is going on, we are the understanding smart ones, and yet we still hurt. You think our minds could tell our hearts how to act. I am sure my H is having issues, but let her be there to deal with them, I know what a jerk he can be and without his friends and me around he has no one to take it out on but her. She will learn.<P>Funny your OW cheated on him, I doubt this one will do that she is pretty insecure.<P>Well I am gonna get to bed, How is the pregnancy thing going. We should chat sometime.<P>Diana

Diana,<P>The pregnancy is going fine. I go to the Dr. on Monday to find out for sure. Sooo....I'm kind of getting impatient. My ex is still acting distant. He is nice and everything and calls during the day. Sometimes to ask me to do things for him sometimes to check on me...but I know he is not acting normal. Anyway, I'm being nice back and trying not to shut down, but I feel I'm getting a little closer to saying, WHATEVER!! Of course, my feelings will probably change next week...that stupid rollercoster again. <P>Oh, I agree that your h will begin to take it out on ow. Who else is going to listen? Like you said...let her deal with it...and I wonder how long she will stick around then. <P>You mentioned that she was his boss. My ex met the ow over the phone through his company. She worked for the same company, but in another state 900 miles away. She asked for a transfer and my ex went and moved her down here. What is amazing to me is how these companies allow this kind of behavior to go on. My ex's company was very much aware of what was going on thanks to the ow's h. They said it didn't matter as long as they both did their jobs. YUCK! Gosh, I just don't understand why affairs meet with so much approval. People just don't want to offend anybody. Thank goodness for friends and family who don't mind not approving!<P>Sure, I would love to chat. What do you use to chat with? How are things going with you? Take care.<P>Tulip