I thought I was getting through to him. H is a big shot at work, King of the World in his own great corporate domain - a domain that I have always remained outside of, even when I worked in the same building.<P>And of course, being a Big Shot means having plenty of female company to talk to, support, take care of, counsel, mentor, and date. Oh, did I say "date?" They call it "lunch meetings" and "Teambuilding" *spit*<P>The only time I am supposed to show my face is when there is some company-sponsored event where spouses are expected. After that it's back outside, face pressed up against the glass.<P>For the past year, I have tried everything I know to turn this around. I've tried being nice. I've tried pleading. I dragged him to a counselor (waste of time and money.) I've tried crying. I've tried explaining complete with diagrams. I've tried screaming and throwing things - and nothing helps.<P>Nothing gets through. We have a great relationship until it comes to how he deals with his female co-workers, and then I am met with absolute silence and a solid brick wall.<P>My head hurts from bashing on that wall.<P>Oh, he did back off from them a little, since I started pushing so hard to try to make him understand what this stuff is doing to me. And he has been angry and miserable the entire time. He complains bitterly that he now has "no friends."<P>Now, back when he could go with whoever he wanted whenever he wanted, life was good! Life was great! But when I told him, "I want you to be with ME - not with them, with ME - I want us to be a married couple 24/7, not just when you are at home!" - he is angry and defensive and shuts me out.<P>How much plainer does it have to be?<P>I am going to tell him that I should never have tried to change him. And it's the truth. I tried, and I saw the result. And then I'll watch his face as the tension leaves and he starts to feel happy again, thinking that I will finally be off his back and things can go back to the way they were.<P>And then he'll tell me how much he loves me and how he never meant to hurt me.<P>And things will be just fine again.<P>Psycho_B***H<P>P.S. I am having an extremely difficult time working - not good because I am certainly going to need the money.<P>Want to know what I do for a living?<P>(if you haven't had your LOL for the day, stay tuned, this is a good one <P>I'm a romance novelist. <BR>

Hi PB,<P>Don't feel bad, this stuff (A's) happen to us all. I am in the payroll tax business and to a pretty good job. I am constantly under the gun to make things happen right irregardless of how the info comes in. Oh well.... Your job is your job and your family is your family. Different animal. <P>Life is different from the fiction. Those who try to make reality a fantasy world end up the losers. That's why we are all here. <P>Please don't blame yourself. Your H needs to see where he is at. Sounds like plan A isn't working, you are suffering beyond your control and you need to that control (of your life and feelings) back to you. At this time, you can not control your H and you need to realize that. Step back and remove yourself from focusing in on helping him only. Strengthen yourself & build your support group. <P>Maybe an individual session with Jennifer or Steve may be helpful. Take the emotional needs questionnaire first and call them. The phone counseling sessions are quite helpful, they can even help you write a plan a or b letter. <P>I believe your topic title is wrong. This is how you are feeling now and may change in the near future. WS and OPs change their minds by the minute, hour, day and week. Don't hang your plans on everything your H is saying. There is some truth in their words and some lies. Look for the truth and throw away the lies. <P>Ask God for a calm hear and a clear mind. You are going to need it for this rough ride. We call it the rollercoast ride in the fog. Put on your seatbelt, this ride goes on for quite a while. At one point you may need to get off and that is when you will begin to heal. <P>Here I am going to give you a post that really helped me, it is from the d/d board and 2 persons there really helped me through my rough times. I am deeply indebited to them for this assistance. <P> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002494.html</A> <P>Hope this is info is helpful. Just remember it is not over until it is over. Decisions made while in the fog does not mean it is over. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.

Orchid,<P>Thanks for the post. I did read it - maybe my H is in the "fog," as they say, only the fog is not just one OW - it's his whole situation at work and the fact that he feels 100% fully entitled to spend as much time as he wants with any of the women there, whether it's counseling them, taking them out, driving around with them, traveling with them, etc. etc. etc.<P>He is rock-solid, dead-set against the idea of my being any part of this. He sees no reason whatever why I should want to know anything about it, because it is "harmless" and "means nothing" and is "just part of work."<P>Trying to tell him that if it "means nothing," there should be no problem letting me in on it, is worse than useless.<P>You are right - and I've pretty much come to the same conclusion - I cannot control anything he does, including changing his mind about running roughshod over me. He is entitled to spend his time with his girls, there is nothing wrong with it, there is nothing going on, and that is the end of it, no discussion.<P>Would you consider this "fog?" It's been going on a long time - several years - but has gotten much worse in the past 1 year since I finally started to object. It sounds like it to me. Makes it a little easier to understand, I guess.<P>Can you do Plan B without leaving the house? The counselor we went to - I talked to him separately first - recommded an in-house separation right off the bat. After that, he recommended a P.I.<P>Psycho_B***h<P><BR>

Psycho...<P>Well..I work for one of those wonderful companies and we are going on a rafting trip saturday (spouses not invited) because it is a TEAM BUILDING event.<P>We drew numbers...guess who I am in the raft with???<P>My ex-affair partner....not a good setup but when we drew names we (he and I) just looked at each other and laughed, and rolled our eyes...what else do you do???? I have been clean now from him for almost eight months but it is still hard some days. I now am dreading the trip and so afraid that the day in his boat will make me emotional again....geeze, dreading it...but want to go rafting all the same...<P>I know many of your feelings on companies like this one....so sorry, tis a hard situation, and if it is any consolation, you husband is going to be old and grey one day and those little secretary's wont give him the time of day any longer.....(well...that was meant to be a cheer-up) <P>Scuba<P>

Has he had an affair or are you worried about the attention being directed at the women he works with and detracting from your relationship?<BR>

Psycho,<P>Don't like to say this, but if your H is not having an affair now, he is prime for one. Could be MLC. Combination plan A and B may be good for YOU. As the rest of us, you really have no control over his behavior... in fact he probably hates to feel controlled. The only control you have is for yourself. Know how difficult it is to think about yourself when you are so consumed with what the H is doing and thinking. I sometimes wonder if all the attention we give the WS is an overindulgence to their ego. So why shouldn't they continue.<P>Loving detachment sounds like a good program. It not only helps you, but it confuses your spouse. They do need to be confused, otherwise they probably feel confident in their actions.<P>Can you keep him guessing? Go somewhere with vauge explainations as to what you are doing. Vauge, but honest. H needs to refocus, and it may just take a jolt from you. If there is no A now, your opportunity is now to prevent one.<P>Scuba,<BR>Hope you do not take that trip. You may once again put yourself and your S through torture. <P>God help us, we're only human. Wish He had given us more backbone.<P>Hugs and prayers to all.<BR>

Hi PB,<P>Glad the info was of some help. Just wanted to add to 'whatami's' comments about 'keeping him guessing'. While you don't want to do this tooo much, one of the things those in the 'fog' don't do is think. You see, thinking requires use of reason which are not compatible with fantasy land rules. Thinking requires the stimulating of gray cells instead of other body parts. <P>Thinking is your key to reality and helping your H find it. When push comes to shove, it is that reality (whether money, family, property, health, etc.) all the unchangeable items in our life, that makes us wake up and face reality, count our blessings, force us to make an accounting of ourselves and come leave the fantasy life behind to come back to the real world. <P>It is like making love to a cartoon or TV character. Feels good in a dream world but reality it looks really funny. Sometimes those in an A do some things that make them look really funny. They don't think it is funny, they call it 'love'. But when others see it, they don't see love they see 'stupid, silly, lust, infatuation, dumb, etc.' Hm.... If it is really love, everyone can see it as a beautiful thing, don't you agree? Love between parent and child, newlyweds, older couple strolling on the beach, etc. This kind of love can be in the open and appreciated by all, not a hidden secret A. <P>Ws's make up all kinds of names and excuses. If it is such a beautiful and ok thing, then why hide it? I told my H, share her with your friends and family if you think she is so great for you. Let's meet this 'good friend' of yours. <P>Hm......that meeting never happened. Oh, by the way, please change your name. RE: my H's OW is dubbed: Mrs. Pysco Babble. Nowhere close to you. I think you deserve a much nicer name. Hey, just a suggestion. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Thanks to all for the replies - I do not know if he is having a physical affair or not. I'll probably never know for sure. There have definitely been many emotional affairs, where he allows these women to become very close and dependent on him for everything from work difficulties to full-blown personal crises.<P>As whatami said, if he's not going all the way now (which I am finding harder and harder to believe,) it is certainly the prime setup for one. I was not willing to wait until that did happen - but the more questions I ask, the worse things get. <P>So, since that doesn't help, I will take the opposite tack. I won't get involved at all. If he wants work to be his own personal private domain, then that's the way it will be. I can't make him change his opinion anyway.<P>I am meeting him for lunch today. I am driving to the place, not meeting him or picking him up at the building like I usually would. (I can't go in to his office alone, due to their security.)<P>Since I have failed spectacularly over the past year at trying to make things better between us, the ball is now in his court. If he wants to fix it, maybe he can do a better job.<P>We'll see what happens.<P>Psycho_B***h<P>P.S. I started using this screen name because that's my husband's term for any crazy controlling woman (he's never called me that, as far as I know) so I decided to use it once I finally grew a backbone.<BR>Orchid, if you need a new name for your H's OW, I would suggest "Hose Beast." One of my personal favorites!<BR>

Hi PB,<P>Ok, you win, but I still think you deserve a nicer name. Oh well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Anyways, Psyco Babble's name is longer. I won't get you 2 mixed up, trust me. As regards the Hose Beast, that's a good one but besides the fact that this 45 year old woman thinks she has an attractive body to allure any man, it is also her foul mouth that gives her that dubious title. <P>Hey, I am a little bit younger then her but at least I was with H when I was younger (married over 10 years). Note: I have nothing against 45 year old woman, getting pretty near there myself, just when they steal H's and act juvenile. <P>On to more serious things, you mentioned that you still are not sure about the A. Try having a session with Jennifer or Steve Harley (not sure if that was already mentioned). They may be able to give you some pointers on how to find out and the best plan of action for you. They even help some write out their plan a or plan b letters as needed. <P>Just more thoughts, we all here want to see you on the road to recovery. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<P>