Davidb and Madelyn,<BR> Thanks for you replys - they were extremely honest and what you said will be taken to heart. I just don't think I have what it takes to disclose the truth.<BR> I am taking steps to break all contact. It jsut isn't easy when we come from a small community and we are both in the same profession. Getting another job in our same area(not geographically, but professionally) would be impossible for either of us. Both of our spouses are also tied to the location because of professions.<BR> I don't think of my professional contact with my former lover as a "relationship". Circumstances, out of our control, force us to work on some projects together. We have even been to one out of town meeting together without any physical contact. I won't say that we didn't talk about how difficult it would be - but both maintained our distance while on the trip. We discussed the possiblity of booking separte hotels in the area - but decided that wasn't necessary - because we both feel strongly about not resuming our "relationship". Now, do you think if either of our spouses knew of our affair, we could have gone to the meeting that needed to be attended by both of us?<BR>Mar<BR>Mar

mar,<BR>You have to find the courage within yourself to face this. You were willing to risk your relationship by having an affair, so why can't you risk it with honesty? You are continuing to dishonor you husband if you honor agreements with your exlover. Your husband can't fight for what he can't see. Please go to the following links and read the info there : <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_honesty.html</A> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3802_honesty.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3802_honesty.html</A> <BR>I am the BS, and I haven't regretted getting to know the man my husband truly is. Your marriage may not survive the truth but can you truly LIVE your life harboring secrets? Secrets slowly consume you. They alter your character. Every secret builds a wall between yourself and the rest of the world. Eventually the walls get higher and stronger until no one on the outside can get through. Because you become isolated, another affair can easily happen since humans crave intimacy, and false intimacy is better than no intimacy.<BR>If you choose to follow a path of integrity then also read the following letter<P>I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to “look” at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn’t mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn’t he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I’m going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.<P>“You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you’re carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the “STUFF” to figure out OUR reality. There isn’t really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don’t have. <BR>“Now let’s enter my reality. Let’s both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever “feel” complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don’t worry about it, it’s not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what’s the difference, it’s not important. Then later when I’m expected to “understand” the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can’t just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it. <BR>“So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don’t you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier. <BR>So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn’t come from jealousy, it doesn’t come from spitefulness, and it doesn’t come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn’t it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn’t it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can’t and the reason I can’t is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

Maybe, just maybe, I am giving some serious thought to talking to my H about my A, do any of you have some advice how to begin?<BR>I did visit with OP about Madelyn and Davidb's advice - he would still rather I not speak to my H as things are not going well in his situation. His wife is having medical problems and they are going through some tough times with an adult child. My bringing the A out in the open(I, of course am just suggesting that I tell my H, what he does, is his business) would certainly send his wife over the edge.<BR>So, back to my original question - I need help in how to begin since the A has been over for awhile.<BR>Thanks for any help

Mar, several things:<P>1. You cannot worry about the OM's wife or family or anything else. They are irrelevant. What he opts to tell his W is his business - not yours (although I do believe that she should eventually be told in some fashion).<P>2. The truth has an odd way of slipping out, ex-facto. You and OM might think that you are 'safe.' But someone might know your secret. And that someone might tell. How will you feel then, having your H hear it from an outside party? Believe me, the truth always comes out. Some things are too big to be kept a secret.<P>3. I strongly suggest that you have a telephone counseling session w/ the Harleys before you tell your H so that you will get some professional guidance. This is a very delicate matter, and you will need to be gentle. Okay?<P>4. Finally, picture this: you and your H are in your golden years. Death is staring you down. You look at your H, whom you dearly love. Can you feel good about yourself, taking this secret to the grave? Or letting him pass into that other realm without knowing the truth of your marriage? Could you feel at peace knowing that you deprived him of making a choice whether to be with you or whether to go - essentially, robbing him of his free will? What better way to honor your H than to give him the truth. <P>It shows courtesy, respect, and nothing but integrity on your part.<P>belld

mar, I'm really glad to see that you're considering this. I agree that you need to seek counseling first and not jump right into telling your h without preparation. There will be your husband's questions, and you need to know how to deal with these and at the same time remaining steadfast on your commitment to the marriage. In my own case (it's been 3+ years since disclosure) I found that my husband reacted more with questions later on (1+ weeks later) and didn't right away. I think shock is the first emotion registered, at least it was in our case.<P>I really have to say that we couldn't have gotten to the point in our marriage we are now at without this being out in the open. Taking that step toward thinking about disclosure is at least a step in the right direction, IMO. But I agree it really has to be handled delicately.<P>My suggestions for now would be to seek out qualified counseling (Harley's or recommended by). As far as OM's wife, like you've said, this is the OM's concern. I had the same concern, but I didn't tell the OM because of course they don't want you to say anything at the risk of having the affair disclosed to all parties. I just have to reiterate, this isn't your concern and PLEASE DON'T TALK to the OM about this. Start now by cutting off contact, even if you still work with him. You really need to be focusing on you and your husband only. <P>If you want to talk about this further, I'd be happy to. I was in your position and can completley relate to your fears and what you're going through now. <p>[This message has been edited by Madelyn (edited May 14, 2001).]

belldandy, thanks for the advice - I do believe it will come in handy.<BR>Madelyn - I would love to visit with you more about my circumstances - would it be better for us to use e-mail or this forum?<BR>BrokenDreamsX - I never responded to you about the letter. I really liked the simile you used - comparing a jigsaw puzzle. I'm confident that it is because of yours and others responding to me, that eventually, I will make the correct decision.<BR>Mar

<BR>Dear BrokenDreamsX:<P>Thank you SO MUCH for saying what you did, and for reproducing the letter. Of course its message won't be perfectly tailored for each and every person's situation, but it contains a world of truth. More to the point, it's a valuable rejoinder to the notion so popular nowadays that if someone strays it's automatically his/her partner's fault. <P>No doubt, it used to be the other way around! Traditionally, the WS was seen to be at fault, almost exclusively, and the BS was simply an unwitting victim, devoid of reponsibility. In my own case, it's only a few days since discovery, and my H and I have already been to therapy. I have some hope. But the therapist insists that I don't need to know the details or the extent of the A's; she says 'why hurt yourself further'. For me, though, the whole issue is trust and integrity, which I think we have to find a way and establish. It was there once. <P>Sweeping the A under the rug, and concentrating instead on how my nagging, for instance, made him unhappy, doesn't help me heal one bit. I'm sure it helps him, saves him some embarrassment, but he's not the one miserable over this, at least not visibly. He sleeps like a baby this week! But how can we re-establish trust? How will I even know when he's stopped lying? That's what I want addressed, but our therapist doesn't. One thing that would help tremendously would be to know how much has happened, with whom, etc. I don't want graphic details, I just want to know what I'm dealing with. A glimpse at the photo on the puzzle box. The therapist seems to be concerned only with 1) acknowledging the hurt on both sides and 2) showing how my insistent and/or intimidating nature "drove" him to do it. You know, I had grievances too, only I tried to talk them over rather than just run off and have sex with other men. <P>In the end, though, the lying hurts the most, and refusing to discuss the nature of the "offense" prevents me from moving forward. "You were willing to risk your relationship by having an affair, so why can't you risk it with honesty?" ...a remark I will never forget. Thank you. <P>I welcome all responses... I'm very glad to have discovered this forum this very day! <P>Love to all,<BR>Adrian<P>

Hi, Mar. Feel free to e-mail me anytime @ Madelyn067@netscape.net if you want to talk (or you can discuss it here on the forum, it's up to you).