Here we go. I could kick myself, right now... I'm fuming!!! I think my nice "letter" set off a bomb???<P>Brief history:<BR>On a moments notice, H left 10 mths ago, to be alone because he was confused, mixed up (another lie). H called me, at first & came over to get things, nasty most of the time. That was until I found out OW 1 1/2 mths later, when I ran into them. OW had moved right in to H's apt. H became extremely hateful towards me. OW threatened me, H even brought OW to my door, OW left threatening note. Order of Protection was granted against OW, Judge found OW guilty trespassing & harassment issued NO CONTACT (absolutely none). <P>H got worse, I'm sure OW behind it. On occasions (OW not there at H's business) H would talk to me, not much (maybe 1 in 2-3 mths. Had a 2 hrs. of conversation in FEB., 1 hr. when I called, H called me back talked another hr. H told me call him tomorrow. When I did H said he couldn't talk, busy. Phone number showed up on my caller ID, I called H back. H said (meekly) "do me a favor, please don't call me here anymore". OW apparently on phone, yelled "don't call here again, or I'll take you out for harassment". I called one time since, asked H how he was, H said can't talk, busy & hung up. End of contact.<P>Suggestions made to write H, wrote 1 letter (mild) only wrote of dogs antics. <P>Now:<BR>Sheriff's Dept. at door my this morning, served summons date filed appears to be 2 days after H probably received letter. Unreal, list of items H wants. Says I refused to return personal property.<P>H took what he wanted, coming back several times, let H take anything he asked for. Until H brought OW to my door, I didn't trust to let H back in after that. H ranted that I wouldn't let him come over/in, after that (Do you blame me?). H told me "you can have it all" when he left (mostly mine anyway). My house, I took H in when he was going to live in his van because he hadn't paid his rent. Nice of H to tell me I could keep MY house, my furnishings. <P>I never owned (and didn't want a credit card) before I met H. H's credit zilch (bankruptcy). Stupid me again. Got credit cards in my name, transferred H's high interest balances to my cards. Credit cards grew, all things H got, gifts for H's family & kids (xmas/birthdays), items for business, etc. I have nothing hardy, of no value to show for all these bills. H said he ran them up and would paid them when H left, than refused. I'm stuck with the mess, bill collectors/lawyers etc. H left me with nothing, no money (just taking care of himself & supporting OW).<P>I was left with H's dogs (said his apt.-no pets), refused to pay for their food or vet. When I asked, H told me to take them to the pound or put them to sleep, he didn't care! (cold hearted). Incident-dog consumed poison, big vet bill and conflict. I contacted H because vet wouldn't bill, needed money to pick dog up. H yelled at me, he wasn't paying "put the DAMN dog to sleep". I got call from vet, H there (& OW), vet wouldn't release dog without my permission. I told vet NO, because I feared for the dog's safety & call police if need be. (H previous history of violence 1st wife). H ranted at vet, told him to "put the DAMN dog to sleep". <P>Now H even has dog listed. How crazy is this? I guess H wants to fight this out. Threatened to take me to court before (Sept), told H lets go. I know I'm not in the wrong. H abandoned me, I have proof of adultery OW (not so smart) testified in court H was her boyfriend & admitted she was living with him, even H's address (I have court transcript) I even have a witness. H about flipped when I told him about what was said at court hearing. (guess OW told him some lies). <P>Vent, vent, vent. I don't know about addiction/fog, but I've been trying to be so civil (nice)with H, playing the stupid loving wife, hoping H would come home. Seems to be all to my detriment, I feel walked over, stomped on, used and like a fool right now. How can those two arrogant #@!^ have the nerve. I know OW is behind this. I could even press criminal charges on H for things he has done to me, forgery, grand theft, etc. Stupid nice me, MIL even told me before, that H thinks your to nice and you wouldn't do anything, MIL told me to have him locked up. I must be out of my mind.....love? <P>I thought of calling H? I'm trying not to.<P>Thanks for reading.....HELP...I need support, advice anything before I do lose it. <P>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 21, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 21, 2001).]

I'm probably not the best one to give advice as a WS and still in conflict with my wife, but I think anybody could see that this isn't your run of the mill twisted affair in which a WS messes up over and over but can't really decide to divorce, can't go with the OW, and ends up messing everybody up through lies and passivity. In this case, these people seem like their out to GET you, and you had better get yourself a lawyer, and today. The best you can find. Do not take another step, sign anything, or say anything, agree to anything until you have met with a lawyer. I'm talking now as a lawyer myself, albeit not a divorce lawyer. See that lawyer before he comes back to the house. Most law offices can see you on an emergency basis same day, so find someone NOW! Best is if you have have a referral, but if you are totally desperate use the Yellow Pages. Whatever you do, don't hesitate, please please please. You have no idea how badly you can be had in all of this, how abused you can be by the system if your H knows how to work it and you don't. You will feel abused for your whole life if you let yourself be doubly victimized. Now is the time to draw on the strength of God and the millions of abused spouses who found the pride and dignity not to be ground down and spit out.

Dear HW, <P>I am sorry those incidents are happening to you. What did the sheriff deputies say? The ones that came to my house, were very supportive. Of course, they came due to my call but still domestic issues are very common to them. All is not lost on your side. <P>By your post, it is becoming very evident that you H is losing it. He is living with a wacko and in time the whole world (including the police dept). Law enforcement officers don't like crank calls. If your H is using them to get to you, he is messsing with the wrong crowd. Let him. <P>In the meantime, protect yourself. Whatever he does is his issue not yours. If he made a big deal about your letter and you know he took it out of context, don't worry. Stupid is as stupid does. <P>I can share a story with you later about that. <P>L.<P><BR>

Hurtwife,<P><BR>I agree with Future...get a lawyer. The best you can get. Protect yourself against what ever they can think up. It will not get better it will only get worse. If you can prove that he commited fraud than work on that as well. Trust me you might be willing to pay for his bills now but a year from now do you still want to be providing a free ride for him from his debts? <P>You need to protect yourself finacially. I have seen a number of women who lost it all because they were taken by their so call husbands. One friend of mine mother's ex Husband took all the money from the savings and checking and left. They had no way to put food on the table and the like. <P>You are lucky you have no children except the dogs but really even going to the vet and threatening is not good. They are crazy and you need all the help you can get. Do not let them drag you down to their he*&.

Futuretense:<P>I appreciate your advice. H left me in such turmoil and financial disaster. Lawyers cost money...I've tried. H got lawyer in Sept. that sent me a letter. I talked to a lawyer (free consultation) he told me since H said "you can have everything (like there is anything to have...what a joke), he would contact H's attorney and tell him that. <P>H never paid this attorney (said he couldn't afford it), he's also in bad financial situation because of his judgement. So I don't think H's position isn't favorable. The Summons I received today is not through an attorney, H filed himself with the court.<P>With H's arrogant attitude, he told me before he would take me to court. I told him let's go, they would want to see your books. H expressed there could be a BIG problems with that and backed off. <P>I don't let H come to my house, since H brought OW here to threaten me (I didn't answer). H does have previous domestic violence from 1st marriage, which also resulted in other charges (assaults w/intent to murder an officer too, ect.). I know H has the capability from past history. <P>I don't even like posting this on here? But, I won't be intimidated.<P> RE: I'm talking now as a lawyer myself, albeit not a divorce lawyer. See that lawyer before he comes back to the house.<BR> <BR>I don't know that H can come back to my house? It's in my name only. I would call police if H showed up, H knows that. I've told H before I don't want him on my property. (That made him mad, but I don't trust him now). <P>H said something about coming over with a deputy...is that possible? I don't want him in my house. <BR> <BR> RE: If your H knows how to work it and you don't. <P>I think that's giving H more credit than he deserves. I'm the one that did all the work to resolve H's disasters, he wouldn't bother. Not that I know how to work the system, but I know I do a lot more research than H. <P>I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.<P>Thank you so much for your input and advice which is greatly valued. <BR>

sounds like you are being set-up to fail. DO NOT CONTACT H AT ALL NO MATTER WHAT! They probably want you to contact just so they can get a Restraining Order put out against you. Don't give them any ammunition because it is exactly what they are looking for. I know this is hurting deeply but u can't place the blame on OW for his actions, UNLESS SHE IS HOLDING A GUN TO HIS HEAD. He has made the choice to handle things in such an ugly matter, don't stoop to their level. Never let them see you sweat! Do everything by way of a lawyer.

Orchid:<P> RE: What did the sheriff deputies say? <P>Maybe I didn't state the situtation clear. My head is FOGGED right now. Deputy came only to serve "The Summons", H filed in court. <P> RE: By your post, it is becoming very evident that you H is losing it. <P>No doubt, actually I think H hit losing it from the get go. Nothing H does makes sense, I've been too nice, sympathetic. I can see H on self-destruct (stupid me worried about HIM). I can bet OW is pushing it, and H is out-of-his-mind for listening. H has sunk, is sinking, losing everything and for WHAT? H is forcing my hand, which makes me have to do things I didn't want to do. <P><BR> RE: He is living with a wacko and in time the whole world (including the police dept). Law enforcement officers don't like crank calls. If your H is using them to get to you, he is messing with the wrong crowd. Let him. <P>You got that right. There's been no crank calls with police, only legitimate calls I made because of OW threats. Deputies were nice and directed me to the courts. That's when the Order of Protection was issued. The second time Deputy was here,(OW problems again). <BR> <P> RE: If he made a big deal about your letter and you know he took it out of context, don't worry. Stupid is as stupid does. <P>I guess the BIG DEAL H made about the letter was filing to take me to court. Which could very well backfire on him. <P>Thanks much. <P>

Dear Hurt,<P>Your situation sounds not quite so bad, actually, with the further information. Will your lawyer still have you as a client on a pro bono basis? If so, see him/her again immediately. If not, there is lots of free legal advice around, especially for women in your situation. You can try with a local women's center, they usually have referrals they can give. Once you have a lawyer, just spell everything out and let the lawyer tell you what your options are. This is just so absolutely crucial in your situation. The fact that H is lazy and more brutal than cunning is a huge advantage for you. I am not suggesting that you now rake him over the coals. Rather, you must protect your interests and achieve justice for yourself. Justice does not mean more than your share, but it certainly does not mean less either. <P>As for the violence that you fear, that of course is a critical issue. One of the best protections against violence is good planning, and again the lawyer will be key here. You need to stay two steps ahead of him, control all the proceedings, and know how to protect yourself. Changing the locks and having some even rudimentary alarm system installed are very good steps. Since you have HIS dog, you can't expect protection from him, but you should know that more than alarms and, God forbid, guns, dogs are the best protection you can have. Let me repeat, studies have shown that dogs are the very best protection against violence. Should you be able to have one and take care of it, you might consider adopting a German Shepherd or other guarding dog, and going to obedience training with it. Women with loyal and protective dogs of sufficient size stand almost no chance of being beaten up.<P>Finally, do not be afraid to turn your decision making over to a lawyer in this situation if you trust the lawyer to be competent and in an aggressive posture of advocacy on your behalf. People complain all the time about lawyers being a negative influence on the society, however only a lawyer will relentlessly pursue justice on your behalf so that your rights are not infringed upon. The law is there to protect you and your lawyer has a sworn duty to advocate for you and otherwise work to ensure that you are protected and respected. Nobody else in your life, not friends or family, is under such an obligation. God bless you.

Pahakissa1:<P> RE: Trust me you might be willing to pay for his bills now but a year from now do you still want to be providing a free ride for him from his debts? <P>I'm not willing to pay H's bills and diffently not in a position to do so. H has left me with them all, I never would have fathomed H would do this. This blew my mind and everyone elses. Thank God I didn't put him on my house, and this has driven me into foreclosure proceedings too. <P>Thanks!!!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 21, 2001).]

Depending on what the two of you make in terms of money, a court would very likely order H to start picking up his financial responsibilities right away. If he does not, you have options, such as liens, that could force him to pay his share.

Sorry, I should add that you would likely have to begin divorce proceedings, however. And you really should sue him for divorce.

Hurtwife:<BR>I "second, third and fourth" the advice to please get legal help. I will tell you my story of a psychotic OW and how I came to need legal intervention against her.<P>While my XH and I were separated 8 years ago, he was living with OW that he met during the last few months of our marriage. OW decided that my very existence was a huge threat to her. I was "Nice" and tried to be her friend, because they were already wearing wedding rings (!!!!) and I assumed she was going to end up being our D's stepmom. But she wasn't happy with just that. She decided, with my suddenly-spineless Ex-Marine Golden Gloves Boxer XH cowering behind her, to try and intimidate me into GIVING them my D to raise, so she could play Mommy and really "own" my XH. She threatened to call Social Services because during my D's visitation with daddy, she claimed to have found head lice. OW started calling me at work on a daily campaign of harassment, and called me at 10 pm at home one night to harangue me because I had DARED to have phone contact my XH (AT THE TIME, LEGAL H!!!) regarding matters pertinent to OUR divorce and OUR child!!!! She threatened me personally, physically, if I ever contacted my (AT THE TIME LEGAL H) again!!! She stated she wanted to "Obliterate" me and that I needed to "Get It" that she was his "Spouse", not me. <P>After crying all night after that ridiculous confrontation, I filed a R/O against the B**** and spent ALL my next paycheck on a retainer for a lawyer. (Ended up moving back in with mom and dad so I could pay for it. Prior to that, I was trying to do-it-yourself divorce with no results and no cooperation from XH.) OW stood up and took notice and they broke up a couple of weeks later. OW took her 2 girls and hightailed out of town leaving all furniture and clothing and children's toys & bikes behind...one of the saddest things I have ever seen. There were holes in the walls of their Townhome from their mutual, violent fights.<P>HURTWIFE - This is the time for swift legal action. OW is out of her mind with jealousy and of course is trying to "obliterate" you. H is impossible to deal with in this situation. <P>Futuretense and others are right on the money here. Lawyers are horrible people until you need one. Do everything through a lawyer. You have to look out for yourself now!!!!

Futuretense:<P> RE: Will your lawyer still have you as a client on a pro bono basis? <P>No, I've tried everywhere, unless there is a history of domestic violence or/and children involved they won't provide legal services. I've even tried contacting the lawyer I saw previously, he won't even return my calls, guess it's a money issue. I've been the whole root, women's center, etc., no results. <P> RE: The fact that H is lazy and more brutal than cunning is a huge advantage for you. <P>Don't know if it's lazy, (H worked hard) which reminds me: <BR>Funny Dr.(psychiatrist we went to)told me I was a very intelligent women,(sure don't feel like it with the mess I got into) than he said your H is not as intelligent as you, he needs you a lot more than you need him. <P> RE: I am not suggesting that you now rake him over the coals. <P>That's just it, I feel H is forcing me into this, and to protect myself it will rake him over the coals. Not anything I have done, but rather what it will bring out H has probably not done, if you get my drift? <P> RE: having some even rudimentary alarm system installed are very good steps. <P>we're talking money again, seems that's always the bottom line. <P><BR> RE: Since you have HIS dog, you can't expect protection from him,<P>Amusingly, HIS dog (which had disowned)is super protective over ME. H raised dog from puppy, before I met H. This dog won't let anyone touch me, has even bitten H a couple of times in the past when H had leaned over to kiss me. Dog was across the room, when H reach over to hold my hand one time, within seconds Dog had H's hand in his mouth. Dog even got weird like this with H's kids (dog had grown up with). At least HIS dog loves me, (very loyal & sufficient size) and would probably tear H up. Very smart dog, he has a sixth sense, it's strange. <BR> <BR>Great thanks again. May God Bless.<p>[This message has been edited by Hurtwife (edited May 21, 2001).]

{{{HurtWife}}}<P>I am so sorry to hear of this. It must be very hard for you to deal with.<P>You asked if we thought you should contact your husband about this. I would say No with a Capital N. It is one thing to behave lovingly toward a person you care about. It is quite another to put yourself in legal danger to try to protect a marriage.<P>You must talk to an attorney. Try calling your place of worship and see if they have any contact with a referral service. <B>NSR</B> has a few links to sites than can help you with legal referrals. Contact him or do a search to find his posts.<P>Protecting yourself legally does not mean that you are giving up on your marriage. It is possible that things will work out in the end with you two. But if that happened, wouldn't you rather that you and your husband were using your money and stuff, not the OW?<P>You take care of yourself.<P>All the best.<BR>--HBC

trying2_4give:<P>I agree with you, I really felt like calling H, but I've refrained, NOT where his head is at?!?! I know your right NO CONTACT, it would just get worse. <P>I know H is responsible and I can see H is hanging himself. I don't think OW is holding a gun to his head, but I'm telling you I was thinking he was seriously obssesed or possessed before I found this site. (addiction-same thing) and H's brain appears to be mush. You would have to know OW's background to see what I'm saying, she's very low, extremely manipulating. H has become pathetic when it comes to OW. (it's sick). Other people that know H agree, he's not the type of person to be controled (but OW is doing it). Of course H has become a completely differant person, all of this is totally out of character, from how H was (used to be)with me. <P>It has been very ugly and getting uglier, I wouldn't stoop to their level. I'll stay the legal route...just wish I could afford an attorney. <P>Thanks lots.

Futuretense:<P>The Business was our income. Since H left & OW is there, I've been shoved out in the cold, left high & dry. Trying to keep from having a nervous breakdown over here.<P>Apparently H doesn't think he has any responsibilities! Hasn't given me anything, told me get a job. Even OW got on the phone one time ranting her vulgar mouth at me, telling me to get off my lazy ^%^*^& and get a job. Excuse me this WAS my job. How did I feel when I find out H is totally supporting OW (she has never worked since with H)? <P>H is running it all into the ground, and it's getting worse. H has lost our health insurance, his auto ins., the list goes on. When I called H mths. ago trying to try savage the health ins. (H has a chronic illness & really needs it), he ranted he didn't have any money, why are you so D*** worried about my insurance. I reminded H it was mine also, H said than get your own D#%$ insurance. <P>So I'm kicked out of the business (that's being ran into the ground) that wouldn't be there if it weren't for me. I know a lot of people that won't go there anymore because of what H has done (has aquired bad reputation) and they don't trust him. H told me one time business was bad and asked me "you wouldn't send me any business would you?" (right). I was the one that beat the streets getting business, etc. <P>Financially, I stretching just trying to survive. <P> RE: and you really should sue him for divorce <P>Would this be more beneficial for me as opposed to H filing???<P>Deepest thanks.<BR>

CinDrLa:<P>Sounds like your XH OW and my H's were cloned. Except my H OW's language was purely limited to vulgarity. (vast lack of: education, immaturity, intelligence, integrity, etc). It only took 1 phone call for me to realize what this OW is. Extreme ugliness, the thought "friends" would have been an inconceivable idea. I think your right about OW, jealousy and BS being a threat. <P>Curious, how long was XH with OW?<P>I know your right....money issue?<P>Thanks much.

Hurtwife - <P>I was thinking the same thing when I read your posts. It's so weird to see a strong man literally hiding behind his OW, to see him change into a shell of himself. I remember the aggravation and heartbreak of that myself.<P>It is amazing, in hindsight after 8+ years, how in the fog my XH was. We didn't know about EA's or PA's or anything like that back then in mid-1993 (! no internet either!) In hindsight, it was obvious that I went to an immediate Plan B after he told me about the incipient affair. <P>It is obvious that your H is in a serious heavy duty fog too. When the fog is that thick, you have to look out for yourself first. He is not capable, probably lets OW decide everything. It also sounds like he is on self-destruct mode. I would get far away from him if I were you, any way possible.<P>I would warn you, though, to be prepared for your H to come out of the fog at some point, e.g. if they break up, and contact you seeking solace or help. I couldn't tell you what to do there, but I know it did happen to me, several times, and always when my life seemed to be going well. I would tell him, when he would call or otherwise hit on me, "You're the one who wanted out of our marriage, not me. So just let me live my life."<P>My XH was incredibly chaotic and self-destructive person, and appeared to have hit bottom with several other abusive relationships after our divorce, though he has done a 180 turnaround with his new wife of 2 years. They have 2 kids, he is re-involved with our D, and is acting like a normal human as far as I can tell. <P>BTW - My XH was with psychotic OW for about eight months total. Some kind of long-lasting, quasi-bigamous, wedding-band-wearing type of relationship they had there! (And, the bands he bought for "Them" were far nicer than the one he gave me, too. He actually cut "Our" wedding band off his finger with wire cutters, as if to "show me" how little our marriage meant. What irony - we were married 7.5 years)<P>Some others here have more legal insight, maybe can send you in the right direction as far as who to go to for low-cost assistance. BTW in my state (Calif) and several others, you can't sue for divorce, it's all no-fault and community property laws. But you still should file to get the property and business matters as much in your favor as possible. <p>[This message has been edited by CinDrLa (edited May 21, 2001).]

Dear hurt,<BR>I feel your pain, I really do.<P>My first H was a sociopath. By the timeI came to realize that he had stripped me of my strenght , my self esteem, my finances. I was a basket case and I didn't even know it. Verbal, emotional and some physical abuse were part and parcel of the marriage. YET, good ol me, I kept on being loyal and kept on trying. I even thought I loved him.<P>Best thing that happened was finally contacting the OW and telling her to tell him to "leave me alone." Never heard from him after that. <P>Well, sweetie, that's a long story made short. I know where you're at. Even if you lose all the money and material things ... DO NOT lose yourself. You have the ability to recover, he will pay. Life gives us lessons and the only failure is not learning from them. I was fortunate to have a supporting family, hope you have the same.<P>Let go, Let God. My motto now, and it's working.<P>Bless you, JS<p>[This message has been edited by whatami (edited May 21, 2001).]

HurtButCoping:<P>I feel like H tore my heart out, ripped it into tiny pieces and stomped all over me, and that would have felt better than I feel now. <P> RE: Protecting yourself legally does not mean that you are giving up on your marriage. It is possible that things will work out in the end with you two. <P>I kind of feel it is giving up. I didn't want to have to go this route, but it seems H is forcing me. It's bad enough the OW. I feel the more nasty things get the more animosity it creates between H & I. <P> RE: But if that happened, wouldn't you rather that you and your husband were using your money and stuff, not the OW?<BR> I know by now I feel about brain dead, but I'm not sure what you meant here? <P>Thank you much. <P>All the best.<BR>--HBC[/B][/QUOTE]<P>