<P><BR>....Perhaps give you my point of view?. I came here to read and to try to understand mostly how the WS/MM/MW thought - how they felt etc. etc.... and I found myself reading about a world I never really understood.<P>I’m trying to stay away from the MM in my life. And in some kind of humble action this post is more or less like - If you have a question that I can answer as the OW then please do. <P>I’m here on this board to try to understand why .... And even if most of you ”might” hate my guts for being an OW - I think that you are like me interested in hearing the other side. - If you are not then I will humbly walk away and never bother you again. But I do believe that we are all looking for answers whatever side of the fence we are on - by choice or not.<P>Just trying to maintain sain - If I’m out of order - please say so and I will walk away!<P>

You are more then welcomed here. And I think it would be good if a BS is wondering what happens on the other side that you can answer them honestly. Stay please.

I'll bite on this one. What if anything do you feel about the MM's wife? If I recall from your earlier post, when you first got involved with him, you knew he was married. How did you rationalize forming a relationship with him? Did you ever think about what you were doing to his wife and family? Did you care?<P>Do you hope to ever get married in the future, to your MM or someone else? If so, how do you think you would react if your husband cheated on you? Would you be more forgiving of him because of your experience?<P>Z

Hi survivorthruitall2<P>Thanks - In somewhat screwed up way I’m trying to do the right thing. But I’m a week person when it comes to ”him”. I/we have broken up sooooo many tomes and the after a couple of weeks he calls me again just to ask ”how are you,,,,” - and the rollecoaster more or less starts again. I’m not writing this to make any of you feel worse I’m just telling my story. And what bugs me today is that his W has no clue - ”officially we broke up some time after D-day - but he never stopped calling - or coming over. NOW - I’m not saying this to put more salt in your wounds - It’s just a real time story. And I’m still confused as to why and how he can keep this up?.<P>And YES, please believe me when I say - I don’t want more of this.....but then again....when he rings at my doorbell - **** I’m weaker then I thought. Feelings are overwhelming at times - don’t think that I like what I do - But help me understand why do we love them so much? BS/OW - geee we are not that different - not really! - at least I don’t think so. <BR>

Hi zorweb<P>OK - fair enough Q from you. When we first got ”involved” he told me that he didn’t love his W (I know...I have learned that that is a lot of BS). Anyway he told his W about us he started the divorce thing - he was about to move out. then the Family got on his case - everyone told him he was doing the wrong thing - That he was destroying his life family/....you name it. I was obviously the big VILLAIN. Nobody even cared that he was the aggressor - I guess in some cases the woman is always the villain (not all but...well you know).<P>So to you next Q ” Did you ever think about what you were doing to his wife and family? Did you care?”<BR>I think I explained a bit above - but no - actually I did not think - He came after me and we fell madly inlove. Perhaps I should have stopped it before It went as far as it did - but I didn’t - And believe me I’m suffering the consequences today. Did I care? - Well they don’t have any children - I’m not saying that’s an excuse - but It made it easier. He wanted me I wanted him - then reality stepped in form of the big NORM of society!<P>As for you last Q:<BR>” Do you hope to ever get married in the future, to your MM or someone else? If so, how do you think you would react if your husband cheated on you? Would you be more forgiving of him because of your experience?<P>Well yes I do hope to get married sometime - BUT If my husband ever cheated on me ...No....No way...It would never be the same...even If I forgave him the trust would be gone and even if we worked things out something would always be lacking.<P>But then again - This is how I feel right now - who knows how I would react if that situation actually occurred to me???? - So in other words - I don’t really have an answer to your Q.<P><BR>

<B> It’s just a real time story. And I’m still confused as to why and how he can keep this up?.</B><BR>You both keep it up because you respond to each other when either of you “comes a knockin!”<P>One of you has to be the “adult” here & now is the time for you to step up. Do WHATEVER you must to not have ANY contact with him. It’ll be difficult but it is possible. And you’ll appreciate yourself in the long run for managing to do this difficult task.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

HumbleFish,<P>You are more than welcome here. It really helps to get the other side of the story.<P>Flame if you want but do you realize that your MM IS cheating on you??? He has gone back and forth to his wife. He has lied to you MANY times, yet you still take him back knowing that it's wrong. These were your words. You know that what you are doing is wrong.<P>If you REALLY want to move on with your life. Leave your MM. Change your phone number, hang up if he calls. You've already gotten this advice here. If your MM was an honorable man, he would NOT have done this to you or his wife. He IS contiuing to hurt you.<P>Just my 2 cents.<P>Please stay, read read read READ and post.<P>K

Sounds to me like the MM is having his cake and eating it, too! I know that most spouses whom have an A are either remorseful.......or not! I don't get the feeling that the MM is trying to fix his marriage....or leave it either. I consider this type of behavior to be self-serving. You nor his W deserve to be treated so horribly. <P>Someone needs to get off this merry-go-round and it seems that you are the more reasonable candidate since the MM's W hasn't a clue....OR.....does she????? <P>I appreciate your insight as the OW and hope that you can continue to enlighten me about your situation.<P>------------------<BR>Time heals all wounds as long as you DON'T pick at them!

Hi Humblefish- I think its a good thing you are reading this board. Let me describe what happened with my WS. H and I have been married 15 yrs we have 3 kids teen down to tot.We started with NOTHING when we got married back then and I have moved 5 times all over the country leaving houses, friends, relatives etc so that we can be financially better off. Last yr after our fifth move H was emotionally vulnerable due to both his parents passing away - the last one the same wk as his job transfer across the country.Plus his job had involved travelling 3 out of 4 wks for six years in a row and it was hard for us to be close when we had to live like that. Nevertheless we packed right up and came here and bought our first NEW beautiful home. OW who is single was hired on same marketing team as H at the same time. She came over to see our new house and wanted it for herself.The guys there were always trying to set her up on dates because she said she was desperate to marry. Well she started having lunches, going to sales after -work things with H and pretty soon they were in a full blown affair. He would even go to church with me and the kids every wk then drop us off and say he was going to the gym when he was really working up a sweat at OW's condo.OW and H arranged for him to bring our 3 kids over to her place to decorate xmas cookies saying I could have the afternoon off! After that day she was convinced she would be my kids step-mom!!! She kept telling H I was a lazy SAHM who napped all day and was no good for him. He started picking fights with me, ignored me when I was ill for 3 wks, blew off my bday, nothing for valentines day- THAT was the morning I confronted him and he confessed. Spent that whole day crying my eyes out in the doctors office. H said our marriage was over in his head and I"d never forgive him so he'd be leaving me.OW was mad that he wouldnt divorce me right away so she took a job transfer to another state. Every time he called her she would insist he take further action against me to prove his LOVE for her! He even filed for divorce on me without warning- now there was an eye-opener. He then told our counselor that he was caught in a cycle he couldnt stop with OW! And cancelled the papers. He is back living at home with me. Can you imagine what an emotional mess he is at this point? I feel like I have to deprogram him. And OW is off on her merry way to break up some other man's family. Believe me its only my close relationship with God that has carried me this far.She has NO CLUE what damage she has caused all of us. lifeismessy

As a BS, my first instinct is to chew you out. BUT, you seem to be questioning what you are doing. IMO, that is a good thing. The OW in my situation professed to know that she was doing was wrong, but never backed away. She actually pursued WS! She even commented that she was not a mom so she didn't know how I felt for my kids - meaning she didn't care. <P>I know how easy it is to think only about yourself in this situation. But PLEASE consider that there are so many who are hurt and DESTROYED by affairs, not just the BS and kis either. It's not just about you and WS. <P>Have you asked yourself why you would "settle" for a married man? Why is he so attractive when others who are single are not? I respect the fact that you are coming to a marriage BUILDERS website for support. <P>Just know that you have not walked in the BS's shoes and I'll guarantee you that should you marry your WS, the same thing will happen to you. Is that how you envision your life? Please get out while you can and with the least amount of further damage to everyone involved.

Hi, I have some questions, thanks!<P>1. Why do affairs seem to take off so quickly and strongly?<P>2. Do you feel it would be the same if you were with him fulltime?<P>3. Have you ever really considered that if his present marriage is not working that maybe he is at least 50 % responsible and so similar problems may be experienced with you if you married?<P>4. Would you ever tell his wife about the affair and why do you think some OW do this?<P>5. What methods do you use to maintain secrecy?<P>6. Is the secrecy exciting and does the secrecy help bind your relationship to him?<P>I have a million more!<P>thanks

Humblefish,<P>You know what? He is cheating on you right now, with his wife. What you feel like is exactly what his wife feels like. <P>You said.....<P>"BUT If my husband ever cheated on me ...No....No way...It would never be the same...even If I forgave him the trust would be gone and even if we worked things out something would always be lacking."<P>So this man has already lied to you, he has already cheated on you with his wife. Yet you hang on. If he ever did leave his wife and marry you, you will never be able to trust him.<P>I have heard that very often, when a person wants to end a relationship, they get involved in a relationship to help them make the break. It serves two purposes. The first is that it just feels good. The second is that when their spouse finds out, they think their spouse is going to automatically kick them out. That way they do not have to be the one to make the final choice. The BS does.<P>But it seldom works that way. Most of the time the BS takes the WS back. In the case where the WS does end up leaving, the OW/OM becomes the "transitory relationship". That's the person they dump on until they get their head together enough to have a "real relationship". I know this sounds brutal but it is true. That is why people like Dr. Joy Brown tells her listeners that they should never date anyone who has been divorced for less then a year. After a divorce, people are a basketcase for at least a year, if not longer. They will very often mow over anyone they get involved with.<P>Z<P><BR>

<BR>I am going to get a little personal here. I work with children on a daily basis in my profession. Many of them are from broken homes. They are graduates of the school of hard knocks. They know of things that they shouldn't at their tender ages. The things that go on in their families are sometimes horrible. Many involve dads, stepdads,divorces,a score of relationshops..etc. You get the picture? I know you said that there are "no children" but that isn't my point here. In the midst of all of this chaos we always try to teach children about making decisions based on good character. That is, deep down you know what is right and what is wrong. You should choose to do the right thing...always..no matter how unpleasant it is to you. Guess what? When W finds out, she will be 100 times more distraught and confused as you. On the subject of confusion, MM must be way over his head in that dept. especially if his W is unaware of this. Are you secretly waiting for the other shoe to drop before you "do the right thing?" Diffuse this situation before it blows up in your face. If you think you are in love with MM you must let him take care of his marriage first. If he decides to leave his W for you let him do it on his own. Then you will at least know it is because he really cares about you.<BR>I know it sounds hard. I am a BS and honey....You don't know hard until you have been there. I know you cannot empathize with us BS's. H's paint this horrible picture of their W. Well, most of it is not true. Maybe you have a friend or a friend of a friend who has been one everybody does. It sounds like you want to do the right thing. You do care. Don't wait too long.

My scenario was my H knew his OW for about 4 months before out of the blue they decided to have sex. Now there is a baby on the way, I'm sure is his because God has this wonderful sense of humor. (They did use a condom, it broke) Anyway, I try to see it as giving in to a hot moment. It hurt me, and I know I didn't do anything wrong. No I never had any other man besides him.<P>My question is, for your situation, did you get to know this man and just convince yourself to go with the attraction? When I find myself becoming attracted to a man, I pull away. Or do you just want to see how far things will go.... I mean what is it? Are you thinking about all that or just throwing caution to the wind?

Hi again and thanks for your responses.<P>The hard thing about reading what you say is that it is soo true. It’s a hard thing to realize or accept that it’s a dead end relationship however you turn and twist it. <P>A short description of how it started is and this is just MY case:<P><BR>MM was the aggressor. He is a friend of a co-worker and I helped him with some graphics (my line of work). He then asked me out for lunch to thank me....after that he asked If he could take me out for coffee after work. I didn’t even think about an affair at that time. I just thought he was a nice guy and sure I’m a social woman - why not coffee. Things got kind of ”loaded” at the coffeshop and when he drove me home I noticed the ring on his finger. I told myself ”STOP”. But still I was a bit - no VERY naive - thinking. This Is just a friendly ”thanks for helping me out with the presentation thing”. Then he shows up at my work again claiming he had to pick up something form my co-worker - asked If I wanted a lift home. Still silly naive I did - stopped for a snack at a coffeshop - drove me home and as I was to leave the car he grabbed my hand and *WOW* (sorry - but that was how It felt) and then he kissed me and I was ”SOLD”. I’m not trying to put salt in anyone’s wounds, and I know I should have said NO. But so help me God I didn’t. When I got home I wrote him a mail telling him I don’t want anything to do with him while he is married. The next day I got a mail from him asking me If we could talk about it. I said yes fully detriment to brake off all contact. But then we meet - SIGH - and since then we both have created ”Hell” for ourselves for his W and in a mile around us . We wore like two freaking teenagers. The sparks/feelings/passion call it what you like totally erased everything and anyone around us. Yes it was selfish, and stupid. I don’t know how many times we have spent talking about ”He should have left his W before....or...We never should have..... It’s easy to be wise after. You have no Idea how bad I feel about this today. But I just couldn’t say NO at the time.<P>Sorry I got carried away here - What my point to all this is that - He eventually told me that he had had his eyes on me for some years (YEARS!!!!) and he had planed the whole ”help-me-with-the-graphic-thing” just to have an excuse to take me out to lunch and peruse me.<P>This is what I mean by in my case my MM was the aggressor. He had it planned. Sure I was naive and stupid but he was calculate. He never thought that he would get such strong feelings for me as his plan came into action. So in a way It all backfired on him aswell.<P><BR>______________________<P><BR>alsohurt - you asked some questions and I will try to answer them the best I can - from my point of view:<P><BR>1. Why do affairs seem to take off so quickly and strongly?<P>I believe that you sometimes meet a person and it just clicks - call it chemistry or whatever. sometimes it just happens. If you are two single people it’s great - If one is married then It’s a disaster - unfortunately that chemistry or feeling doesn’t care about the status of the person It just sticks you without any regard on your situation.<P>2. Do you feel it would be the same if you were with him full-time?<P>I have been asking myself that question more times than you know. Frankly I don’t know. Sometimes I think to myself what if he shows up here with a suitcase and tells me - I have moved out - I’m all yours! - How would I react????. I’m not sure.<P>3. Have you ever really considered that if his present marriage is not working that maybe he is at least 50 %<BR>responsible and so similar problems may be experienced with you if you married?<P>No arguing with you on that point. His marriage is not the major problem - he is. We have talked about that a lot.<P>4. Would you ever tell his wife about the affair and why do you think some OW do this?<P>I have talked to his W - she called me when he told her about me and was about to move out. We talked quite a bit. And she is the nicest person - weird to say that but I never wanted to hurt her (a bit to late - I know). In some strange way we quite civil with eachother and even had some ironic laughs about the whole mess. However I know that this has devastated her and I’m just thankful that we could talk and not hate eachother.<P>What makes me feel bad is that she thinks that we broke it off some 4-5 moths ago. She doesn’t know about him showing up at my doorstep or that we still persuade our A after she thought it was over.- and frankly I felt ”better” when she knew.<P>5. What methods do you use to maintain secrecy?<P>Methods? - well I guess he lies about where he is going when he comes to me. Other then that ?<P>6. Is the secrecy exciting and does the secrecy help bind your relationship to him?<P>NO, the secrecy is exhausting. Everything about this A is so draining for both of us (and of course his W). There is nothing magic or special in hiding your feelings from the world. Yes you can sweep in under the carpet so to say and try to ignore what you are doing - but the reality always catches up with you.<P>Well, he still calls - he called today and wanted to come over but I said I had other plans - I so did want to see him - but all you guys make me think (even If I rather ignore you all and continue with him - sorry) - O well but I will try really try to end this.<P>Thanks again for letting me tell my side of this - It helps me. I hope that I can help you in some way. <P>Take care out there!<P>Ps. If I missed any of your Q - please ask again. I'm a bit drained today so perhaps I missed something.<P><BR>

Humble Fish:<P>For the first time since MY mess started, I can actually feel some sympathy for you, a OW. You really seem to want to do the right thing, no matter how hard it is. Please stay on that course and consider some counseling for yourself. Maybe exploring why you would settle for a married man when there are so many single guys out there. You obviously were "swept" up in the whole mess, not matter how wrong it was, I can't REALLY judge you for that. Please do the right thing and get rid of him. If you want to know how really painful all of this is, just go back and read the heartache of the BS's....

Humble Fish:<P>At least you have some thoughts for BS, more than I can say for the OW in my H's life. Of course everyone is different. <P>As a BS I would encourage you to get out of this relationship. It's just destructive for all involved. As a women, we don't deserve to be treated this way. I can't even bring myself to classifiy the OW in my H's life as "a women". Close as I can come is "IT" or maybe a female (I'm not even sure of that, there is certainly nothing feminine looking about IT). OW certainly doesn't anywhere near a lady. Sorry....just venting, but it's true. <P>As the OW I will give you credit for being civil with BS. That's more consideration than I got, to say the least. The OW in my H's life is a horrible person. I've been cussed, and yelled at with the most absolutely vile language and worse things I'd ever heard. I've been threatened & OW even showed up on my doorstep twice. When I didn't answer OW left threatening note. OW was found guilty and Judge granted NO CONTACT Order of Protection. Would you believe my H said later that I didn't have do to what I did, taking his girlfriend to court. H was the one that brought OW to my door. <P>I very much a believer in "Judge Not", but I'm having a hard time with this at the present. I still have enough compassion to wonder what has happened in some people's lives to create this.<P>Sometimes it's very difficult to look past the emotionals. <BR>You seem to be sensible enough to decide realistically what would be most beneficial to everyone involved. It's something you will have to live with. <P>Sometimes you have to make the RIGHT decisions and<BR>sometimes you have to make the decisions RIGHT. <P>Hope you make the RIGHT decision.

Hey Humblefish:<P>I really appreciate you being here. I have a question:<P>How many other people have you told about the A? Do you have a close circle that know about him, or know you as a couple?<P>Do you think of yourselves as a couple under certain circumstances?<P>Thanks<BR>Robyn<P>

Hi Robyn<P>Well after about 2 months he told his W and that lead to that his and her family all knew by the next day (well almost) and then the ”circus” begun. They wore not thrilled to say the least. I know he told 2 close friends about me and some of his colleges at work a bit later since he was looking for an apartment and asked around if anyone knew about any available. And I told some of my old close friends about it too. <P>The couple thing is not that easy to answer. Both yes and no. But mostly no. There was no doubt in our minds that we wore doing something wrong. We spent endless evenings talking about this A and how ”He should have left his W before we got involved”...” If we should stop seeing eachother until he sorted things out at home” etc....etc... The answer to all this Q wore ofcourse Yes and Yes and Yes.... But we ended up continuing the A. It felt grate being together and then we would both feel guilty and bad the next day or days. <BR>I don’t know really how to defend it and I’m not sure I can or even should but that is how we handled it (or mishandled it would be a better word). <P>If I ever thought of us as a couple It was in those moments (that didn’t last very long) when I just closed out the reality of what we wore doing to others (mostly his W. But this really stirred up a mess in their families aswell and even though I didn’t have to confront or explain to them he had to 24/7.) <P><BR>Hurtwife<P>WOW, I’m sorry to here about your experience with the OW woman in your case. As you say one shall ”not judge”. But she really sounds terrible. That is not at all the way I am, and neither is his W. We never used any faul language with one another. That doesn’t mean that our conversations wore altogether pleasant. We wore both hurt/confused and I guess curious about eachother. Both trying to understand why the other didn’t leave him - Ironic but true. Not to defend MM but he didn’t feel that good either we wore all hurting. But in a way I think he was waiting for one of us to step away, because he couldn’t decide. I love him and nobody is perfect but the bottom line is he is a coward, or at least he is in this situation.<P>Is you husband back with you - are you working things out? I hope so for your sake. I wish you the best of luck however things turn out. I'm so tired of all the people that are hurting over these things nomatter what side of the triangle they are on. Just plain sick and tired of it.<BR>

Humble...<BR>Thanks for all your input on this board. You've opened yourself up to all sorts of questions and replies, and you've handled yourself well.<P>This weekend my H was feeling pretty brave (bravery enhanced by alcohol), and said he wanted my permission to go see OW to ask her "where he stood" with her. Promising "good" behavior, I told him he could go, so he left to walk to her house. I called the OW, told him he was coming over. She freaked. Does not want to see him. Ten minutes later, my phone rang. It was OW saying "I sent him home." What a trip! She's done with him, told him so again. Told him to "Go home to your wife."<P>I no longer trust H (obviously), but I do trust the OW. Do the right thing. Send him packing back home everytime he contacts you. Force him to examine himself and his home relationship by not being available for him. Do not accept his phone calls, do not answer his e-mail. Don't answer the door if he arrives. Focus on the hurt he's caused you and his W everytime you think of him, it will make it easier to say goodbye. <P>Keep up the faith... We're all counting on you to be a good example.