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Joined: Jun 2001
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On a daily basis I run through questions I would like to ask my wife in regards to her affair. Like how many times she and the other man had sex? Was it better than our intimate moments? Did she romance him by wearing sexy langerie before they had sex? I could go on, but I am sure you all get my point.<P>Are these questions legitimate ones to ask? Why do I want to know these details? Do I get kicks out of finding out the answers to these questions? Is finding out these details part of the natural healing process? Is this a male thing?<P>Am I a normal male suffering from the knowledge of my wife's affair?<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

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Yes you are normal I sometimes wonder about the intimate details of my h's affair. But I also ask myself these questions. Do I really want to know the real answers? Will it be hurtful to hear what they did? Well it improve our relationship? My answers are no, yes, no. So I don't ask them because I really don't want to know but do I think about it yes often. I think you need to ask the above questions and answer them truthfully. HOpe this helps.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

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I wanted to know all the same things and still do. But you will only get told what they think is good for you to hear. If something makes them look bad they probably will not tell you this. Why we want to know is hard to say. I think we just want a clear picture to fill in the real details rather than to just have imagined details. We do try to imagine the situation. Probably the answers do not help. What is the difference if it was 5 times or 7 times? What is the difference what she wore? What is the difference what positions were used? What is the difference if it wa 15 minutes long or 30 minutes long? I don't know but I wanted those details too.

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As one who knows more details than I ever thought I'd know, you probably DON'T want to know these answers. They do not bring peace. My WH found a "whole new level of satisfaction" and "was able to experience what he only dreamed of". I'm supposed to compete with that? <P>Now, when WE make love, I know he misses the feelings and "longevity" he felt with OW. He feels inadequate with me. Thanks, Hubby... ever think maybe you were never supposed to know the difference? This is what I wrestle with.<P>I too found that I suddenly wanted more intimacy when I found out about OW and the A. I can't explain why. I obviously can't compete here, but I still find myself trying.

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.<p>[This message has been edited by jdmac1 (edited August 04, 2001).]

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Wow....dh and I were just discussing this, as were a friend of mine...I even checked your profile to see if you *were* my dh. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>I can understand the need to know a general idea of what has happened. But as the WS, I feel trapped when questions like this arise. I have told H what happened, he knows the basics, but at times I think he wants to hear every word, thought, touch, emotion, feeling I ever experienced.<P>As I was telling an online friend today, I honestly don't remember how many, when, where, what was said, etc. I don't know why, my best guess is that I have blocked it out as a way to move forward. Do I remember it, sure, but not the details that he seems to be seeking.<P>My base feeling on this matter is (after almost a year in recovery) would details change the basic outcome? change your love for me? I guess for me, I would imagine the worst you can and take that for the truth if she is unwilling to talk. If you can live with your worst imagined thoughts and want to recover, what would details matter?<P>I tend to want to push it to the past, not why it happened or how it happened, but to focus on US, rather then bringing up what I did. Could be shame or guilt, but mostly it is just a desire to move forward and keep healing one day at a time.<P>I don't know...just my feelings on it as a ws...are you sure you aren't my spouse? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><P>------------------<BR>Cat<P>catfrommb@yahoo.com<P>Laughter is harder...Friendship is stronger..Trust is deeper...when it comes from the heart

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Blue,<BR>I tryed to post & had problem, frankly I've lost track if I went back ...<BR>My D-DAY was 01-17-01 & she admitted to PA with two guys, so this was quite a shock!<BR>Your reactions are quite typical. My W has given me a lot of detail -- I think there can be too much -- as others have suggested it can be painful -- I think some sense of the level or intensity as measured by how often is important. Specific details of actual acts are better left out.<BR>There is one thing I have read in your threads that IMHO, I would not be so gracious about, that is your W's continued "friendship" and walks and talks -- I'm sorry, I do not want any guy that was intimate with my W to come close to any kind of contact!<BR>Mutual Friend?? Again, IMHO, I would feel really manipulated and as if I had no pride what soever?! I believe in the Plan A thing that is discussed here, but an important part of this is a clear understanding that the A is over & there be no contact!<BR>There is a book by James Dobson entitled "Love Must be Tough" -- I strongly suggest you get this & read it closely & at same time not tell your W about this book.<BR>It's about establishing some self respect & also some strategies to win your spouses love, but in a way that recognises the severity of their actions & that you are not going to be a passive bystander while they make up their mind. It's about establishing some equality in the relationship.<BR>If you review other threads here & on the recovery section you will see other people's reference to this book.<BR>I feel for you man, this is real tuff stuff!<BR>I hope I'm not being critical here, but please give careful thought to standing firm on the no contact thing -- I mean the WS has treated us with the utmost dis-respect, as the BS we have some rights too! Doesn't the thought of their talking make you sick to your stomoch? I think you have every right to express this & make some ground rules here --you don't want her to come to you becuase of pity ... She's the one that acted badly, why do you have to be so careful about hurting her feeling about no contact?!<BR>My two cents worth.<BR>Best of luck! Hang in there!<BR>HH<BR>

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I ask those questions and many more just like it, even after a year in recovery. I think they will last a lifetime. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>But, it is like many things in life. Is the pain worth the pleasure? The risk worth the reward? Yes it is, for me at least.<P>In answering Cat's questions, Can you imagine the worst and still desire a relationship w/ your spouse? Yes I can, but... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>The lack of honesty hurts, the wondering hurts, the not knowing hurts. Lingerie could be a trigger, our bed could be a trigger, etc, maybe its some kind of "eewww" factor, I don't know. When the WS asks if you remember a scene in a movie that you've never seen, or makes a comment on an event you've never witnessed. Those are the things that haunt us, or me at least. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P><BR>Plus, what kind of "evidence" of the affair is out there? Cards, pictures, gifts, etc. Things you just wonder about. Is there something "lurking" about the house I may find and freak out on? I found of picture of my kids w/ OM's daughter the other day and lost it, my composure not the picture. just another part of the secret life exposed. i hate that part of it all.<P>Anyways enough pity for me. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] Ask the questions. If she doesn't want to talk about it push. If she answers, take them w/ a grain of salt. I would guarantee the answers will change down the road. Cat always softened the blows she delivered, out of pity, respect, shame? I don't really know. But as I kept asking the questions, the answers became more truthful, and more hurtful, but I'm still here and plan to be as long as possible.<P>Take care.<BR>allen

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Ask yourself...do you think you could handle the truth??<BR>Do you think you could get past knowing the details..<BR>I will share with you what happened here when my stbxh asked me..<P>When I confessed about A..he didn't know it was going on...I went to him..and told him I was having an affair..<BR>Not to hurt him..but to get him to wake him up...I should have called an atty looking into divorce..but that really wasn't what I wanted..I wanted him to be here..without the drinking...I wanted things to change..I was tired of him spending all his money while he was gone..and then calling me asking for more,I wanted him to quit telling me he was going to take some vacation time and look for another job..and Actually DO IT..I was just tired..he wanted details..the A was mostly EA..mostly talking..we talked all the time..and the PA had only happened once at that point..not that we didn't want it more...but I was really struggling inside...and he respected that..and didn't push..but that one time...stbxh wanted to know about..he wanted details..I didn't want to give details..because I didn't think it would do any good..but he kept insisting..so I figured..If I am going to be honest..then I'll be honest..about it..so I told him..it hurt him..and he still hasn't forgotten..and still can't get past it..and it's been over a year..he has said..that he wished he wouldn't have asked..and with him drinking like he does..daily..he remembers..and has these pictures in his mind..and can't get past them..I'm sure the drinking doesn't help..but who knows..I think it actually made things worse for us..him knowing the details..<P>So think long and hard before you ask for details..I know men are more visual than women..in their thinking..so ask yourself..if you want that picture ingrained into your mind..

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Dear blue,<P>First of all, I think that your desire to know the details is quite normal.<P>However: the details you want to know about are the very details that matter the least, sweetie. Men and women operate differently when it comes to sex. Ask me what was "good" about a certain person I dated in my single life, and I will never, ever say it was the sex. I would, for example, say something like, "He had a good sense of humor and made me laugh." Or "He had compassion - he held me really closely when I found out my uncle died." Or "He used to surprise me with little gifts and chocolates every now and then." Or "When he was away, he used to write me long letters or send me funny postcards in the mail." Most women begin to experience intimacy on a more cognitive, rather than physical, level. This is NOT to say that sex is unimportant; but that for most of us gals, it's not the "end goal." <P>The things that you should be worrying about are the conversations between your W and the OM. What she confided in him and what he confided in her. What he did for her or said to her to make her feel good about herself. Sex is for the most part the natural *end* result of all of those wonderful, ephemeral things - the long talks, the confiding in each other, crying on each other's shoulders, the little things that convey the message "I care about you as a person." This is the OP's biggest and most powerful weapon (any moron can model lingerie or look good in swim trunks).<P>So if you're really searching for it ... *there* is your true "competition."<P>belldandy

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BRB<P>Funny I just got off the phone with a friend and I asked a similar question...and I answered it too.<P>You want to make this the most painful experience you've ever had. That was my realization.<P>DD

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I think belldandy is dead-on here...<P>Now about 8 mos after my Dday, I still don't know details. My WS has always insisted that hers was an EA, but since we've never really talked about details, I've assumed that there was at least some sort of physical component.<P>I think if your WS wants to talk about the details <B>and</B> you can handle it, go for it - it might be releasing for both of you. Be prepared to hear things and have forever etched images in your mind that you may not want to experience.<P>However, if you have to push her into telling you, then I feel it won't be worth it to you. There won't be complete honesty in what she tells you (trying to "protect you" from the painful bits...), and she might feel you're being controlling and manipulating - definite LB's and if these were issues for you guys in the past, you'll only be reinforcing her feelings now.<P>Like you, I was obsessed with knowing the details initially - but still know next to nothing. What I did as part of my process initially was begin journaling - and wrote down all my questions that I had for her on those pages. Curiously, after that, the need to ask began to fade and I've been OK without not knowing anymore than what I know since that time.<P>You'll never get the truth unless they <B>want</B> to release - pushing it may not help.<P>Best of luck - what you're going thru is tough!

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Thanks guys for the responces.<P>Belldandy you have opened a new can of worms for me that I have never even thought about. Should I pursue asking about details of their conversations? Again, they have had so many that she won't remember them all, and probably won't want to share any details.<P>Good points people.<P>------------------<BR>Blue Rodeo Boy<BR><-- Trust Yourself, and don't believe in any more lies. -->

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Blue,<BR>Hope you are doing well?! A week or two after my D-Day, I was not really functioning very well!<BR>I don't want to seem to harp on an issue, but I can't help but think it is in your best interest to insist on this "No Cantact" rule.<BR>If I can do this properly, here is the link to a thread on the "Recovery" channel (so to speak) from SoSorry (in case the copy thing doesn't work, you can find it) <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/003329.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/003329.html</A> <BR>Again, Hang in there!<BR>Peace,<BR>HH

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Belldandy I couldn't agree more with you.<BR>Knowing all the details might feel important. But it is not, really.<BR>WE all felt that need. After a while we realised knowing the basics of what happened are more important than details.<BR>What happened cannot be changed, it already happened. <BR>What is to happen is what you can change, and that does not need details.<P>And as cat says, sometimes our spouse doesn't even remember all details, either because it felt safer to block them or just because they were part of a whole.<P>Belldandy is completely righ, knowing what made the op so important for your spouse - it might tell you what areas weren't working well in your relationship -, what things other than sex where making your spouse feel good with the situation. Tha is more important.<P>But hey, the curiosity will still be there. It's natural and we all felt it.<P>Take care<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>"Each and everyone of us is deserving of a gentle thougth, a kind word and the gift of understanding"

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BRB,<P>If you ask *anything* about the EMR, yes, that is the question I would recommend asking. "What needs did the OM meet that I failed to meet? What did he do to make you feel special, loved, cherished ...?" <P>Say, for example, your W has always wanted to take up sky-diving. This is something that she's always wanted to do. However, in the past, when she has approached you about it, you have said, "No, I don't want you doing that - it's too risky," or "No, that's too expensive, we can't afford for you to take up sky-diving." Well, suppose the OM in her life *listens* to her needs - suppose he encourages her to pursue sky-diving. Even more, he does research on it with her. Maybe he even loans her or gives her the money for a sky-diving class. That very important need is being met by the OM. <P>When I think of emotional needs, I think of a little checklist. What does a person *need* from their spouse to have the needs met? Once the need is met, a little box next to one item (need) is checked off, sort of like a "to do" list.<P>So as long as the OM is still in the picture, the efforts of the WS are redundant, because that need is already filled - "checked off," if you will. What *you* have to do is to find a way to convey to your W that you *are* willing and ready to meet her needs. I think that many times, the WS's are comfortable knowing that their most important needs are being met by the OP. Why take a chance on someone - us, the BS - who have a proven track record of *not* meeting those needs? Not to defend the WS in any way, shape, or form ... but to understand why it's so difficult for them to turn off their attraction to the OP, we need to acknowledge that there is a lot more going on than sex. And that sex, in fact, is only a very small part of the EMR. A person can have an EMR and get their most important needs met without ever having sex with the OP! Imagine that!<P>So ... I hope this gives you something to consider when you ask your questions. I really feel that your W will be much more comfortable telling you about the emotional needs the OM met, rather than the sexual needs the OM met.<P>belldandy<P><BR>

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This is one post that I know I can answer with certainty. I have been the fly on the wall, read my original post titled caught on tape. I know you my feel like you want to know all the intimate details of your W's affair but believe me it is best unknown. I got to know all the details and I feel that recovery has been hurt by the things I learned. It has left me with the feeling of being in constant competition with OP. When we make love and it doesn't last six hours then I failed because OP could last 6 hours. When we kiss if I dont get the long passionate kisses each time then I failed, OP got them. When wife doesn't want to go walking with me in the evening I failed because she walked with OP. Knowing all the details only allows you to feel a failure because you have something to compare your relationship against. Do yourself a favor and don't search for intimate details that will only bring a deeper sense of hurt but look for the answers of how I can improve my relationship using the 10 basic EN. Sometimes to much information really is to much.<P>------------------<BR>Healing in NC

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Blue,<P>What Belldandy said..is right on target...for me it wasn't the sex...it was the conversations..as the Harleys' say..<BR>The Policy of Undivided Attention..OM wouldn't sit and watch tv while we talked..be it on the phone..or in person...<BR>He would ask questions about what I said..to make sure he understood what I was meaning..he didn't get up and walk out of a room when the conversations weren't to his liking..if I asked him a question..he actually answered it..if I asked him something about his marriage..(he's divorced) and why he felt it ended..he would be honest on why he felt it ended..<BR>and he never bad mouthed his ex-wife...if he said he was going to call...he called..if he said he was going to come over..he came over..if he said he was going to do something..he did..within a reasonable about of time..(like his next day off) I know..some say thats only because he's trying to be on his best behavior..to impress me..but even talking to his friends..they say he's like that all the time..he keeps his word..because he's learned..thats all he has..he was my friend first and foremost..he shared things about his past..he shared his dreams of what he wants in the future..<P>Do you talk to wife about these things??? Do you share with her your heart..your deepest hurts? do you listen to her when she talks..or do you tune her out?? do you try and "fix" things for her when she tells you about a problem at work? or do you listen..and let her vent? women don't want someone to "fix" it..they just want someone to listen..ask questions..help her think of ways to correct the situation herself..Unless of course it's something around the house that she can't "fix" if you tell her your going to do something...do you do it?? or do you keep "forgetting" <BR>Men hate women who nag..(or who they see as nags) but women<BR>HATE even more to have to keep reminding her husband of something that needs to be done..even more than he hates to hear it...we typically feel that if he says he's going to do it..then...he should do it..within a reasonable about of time..not a month later...or two or three years later..but at least within a week or two..<P>Think about yourself..and these things..how do you respond<BR>to your wife with these things???


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