I have said many awful things to my wife, I didn't mean any of them, I doubt your husband does either (if he says stuff). Despite being intimately involved in this train wreck, I have a curiosity about life that is always present in all I do, so the analytical side of me observes and tries to understand... not only myself, but the BS and the op as well. I am not sure exactly why we say the things we do, but I have observed the triggers, and often it is my wife saying something I should respond nicely too....such as don't you love me? Me..... no I don't. Why are you being so mean... me..cause I want too. Don't you care you are hurting the kids.....me, nope. Maybe you should just leave....me ok. Burst into tears, you are killing me....me..so? And much worse. The thing is, I never start this, I only respond to what feels like emotional manipulation... as she increases the ante I match her tit for tat until she is reduced to uncontrollable sobbing and runs away. Do I feel bad? Yes. But I still do it. Sometimes I apologize, but mostly not, I figure she is just as guilty. Still leaves me feeling all cold and dark inside, and think I should just leave. I think what is happening is I am rejecting her attempt to make me care without having done any of her work (or enuf work), I don't want to care/love her cause she is needy, I want to do so cause she is irresistable...do you see? Your husband will be extremely sensitive to anything that feels manipulative, especially emotionally manipulative. He does not want a needy wife, he wants an irresistable wife, who acts (and must be honest, not contrived) like he is also irresistable, not someone she needs. Unfortuneately women seem to resort to woe is me tactics, and can't you see/feel my pain...when that does not work they are devastated. Spare everyone needless angst and just don't go there, or if need to, do it with trusted friends/relatives. Think about it, would you act that way to someone you were dating? You are trying to win your husbands heart back, pursue him like you would if dating (and ignore the A issues, or his lack of response).

Cripes, if I didn't know better I would think you are my husband...it is really eerie.<P>I told him about you (mistake?) and asked him to read SAA. I told him that I didn't want to discuss it unless he wanted to and initiated discussion. (will be hard, but I will do it.)<P>I have pulled way, way back. Last night I went to bed without him...he didn't come up until early am, but I guess I'll get used to it.<P>I quit saying I love you. Could tell it bothers him.<P>I don't call him at work, I wait for him to call.<P>I don't ask him to do anything around the house, oddly enough he seems to do more now.<P>Again, thanks.<P>Tidbits like this are really helping me see him more clearly. You are giving me the thinking behind what he says, which is what I need. However, I worry that because I can hear what he says through you that he will interpret this as me still not being able to hear HIM.<P>Cali<P>------------------<BR>Cali<P>"Humble yourselves, therefore,under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." <P>1 Peter 5:6-7

cali....Tidbits like this are really helping me see him more clearly. You are giving me the thinking behind what he says, which is what I need. However, I worry that because I can hear what he says through you that he will interpret this as me still not being able to hear HIM.<P>Snl.... *smile* I bet you have a dry sense of humor, you sound terribly angst ridden here, but I detect buried in there a little sense of the sublime. I am not your husband, so not to worry, I think you have the idea now and will be able perhaps to hear him better. The thing is that while there are millions of people, there really aren't that many scenarios (maybe a dozen or less), I just happen to resemble the one you are in, your husband has differences I am sure. Myself I am a talker if given half a chance, so don't resemble your H that way, my issue is like your husband though (and we are both passive in emotional conflict I spect), my wife is a controller, so quiet or talkative we give up eventually to the anger. That I can identify with. I hate arguing about feelings, and just won't do it. My wife is having great difficulty giving up that control tool. My ah hem...advice would be to be the best cali you can be, not so much the best wife, and definitely not the one trying to "fix" your husband, or the marriage. Follow the MB stuff, and you have a huge asset as well, the kids.....don't ever ever use them during this. Not only the obvious, complaining to them so they choose sides (I know you won't do that), but don't remind him what he has to lose, he already knows, and will see it as using the kids against him. We ws seem confused and lost, we are not really, we know the score, we just have a different agenda, and that is whether we want to remain married to you. We must be left alone to figure that out for ourselves, we react poorly to being told we are messed up, taken over by satan, too ignorant to come out of the rain, or emotionally manipulated. IMO the one and only thing to do IMO (besides putting info in our paths) is too make yourself irresistable. This battle (war?) is being fought on an emotional battlefield, not an intellectual one, keep that in mind. Good luck.