I've been composing this letter for several weeks and after reading it I realize that it's full of anger and love busters. So I know it's a "Plan A and Throw Away." But maybe it might help someone else feel better the way it helped me to write it, so I thought I'd share it with all of you.<P><BR>Thoughts about “she’s just a friend”<P>Why won’t I let this go? Because our marriage is the most important thing in my life and I will continue to speak up when I feel it is threatened.<P>I cannot control what you do, I can only share my thoughts in the hope that you’re willing to listen, accept and understand.<P>I know you think the whole idea of this friendship being inappropriate is wrong. You can’t see this the way I do....from the outside looking in. My instincts and feelings should not be simply shrugged-off.<P>This situation should be a wake-up call. Our marriage is like our garden—it must be cared for in order to thrive. Remember me saying that we need to worry about us for a change? We cannot ignore the things that are hurting us. I want to be able to believe in you and your commitment to our life together.<P>I understand what you’re getting out of this friendship, what created it and why you don’t want to give it up—It’s a huge ego-booster for you. Here’s this woman who’s “a really nice person” confiding her problems to you, accepting your help, advice and attention. Result—you’re her hero. You feel the need to convince her that men are okay by your attention towards her. You succeed. She tells you what a great guy you are; everything is always pleasant, always affirming, always entertaining. Unlike the daily concerns and responsibilities of making a life together in marriage. And then there’s the band. You said it yourself “It made me feel like a kid again.” And she is directly at the center of those feelings.<P>The way to a middle-aged man’s heart is through his ego—and she’s been feeding yours with a shovel. And now you don’t want the good feelings this relationship gives you to be taken away.<P>You defend her and think I’m just being silly<BR>“She would never be involved with a married man” — I hate to break it to you, but she<BR>already is.<BR>“She wouldn’t even date until her divorce was final” — How noble. But it’s okay for her to suck you dry for all her emotional needs at my expense. Your a safe and non-threatening married guy who’s still in love with his wife. How perfectly harmless. No risks for her. You two can have a swell time stroking each other’s egos while blindly putting me through emotional hell.<BR>“I’m not her type” — Gosh, what a relief, I feel so much better now.<BR> <BR>The bottom-line is, this relationship is inappropriate and steps need to be taken or it will seriously damage our marriage.<P>You and OW decided what the boundaries were for the relationship without including the most important opinion of all....mine. My comfort level matters.<BR> <BR>How can I trust this relationship? <BR>Can you continue your friendship with her and also respect my feelings and our marriage? I don’t think that at this point that’s possible. To a great degree, the damage has already been done. I need assurance from you that you are willing to make changes in order to respect my feelings. You need to understand what is at risk here and just how deeply this situation troubles me.<P>Honesty<BR>I know you feel that you’ve been open and honest about this relationship, but I feel that you have not been open and honest enough. As a result, I don’t believe that everything is okay and I’m having a really hard time trusting you when it comes to this relationship. <BR>Example: Making plans to see her and not telling me about it. You knew you were going to see her and take her the tape you made for her, but you never mentioned it. Would you have gone to see her if I had been with you? I think the answer to that is no. You would have returned the next day to see her alone. Why is seeing her alone important if this is all perfectly innocent and she’s just a friend?<P>Respecting our marriage<BR>Whether intentional or not, this relationship has been maintained as completely separate from us as a married couple—this is inappropriate.<BR>Example: Arranging activities together where I am not included or invited. The two of you appear to show no interest in including me in this relationship. Why? Because it would make you uncomfortable? Because you would have to act differently towards each other if I were there? What does that say?<P>Exchanges of notes, cards and gifts<BR>Giving a birthday card to a friend is a perfectly innocent and acceptable thing, but I feel that these types of exchanges between the two of you have become too personal and too frequent.<BR>Examples: Her mentioning in her Christmas card to you that she loves getting your notes—I remember when you used to write me little notes. This is courting behavior on your part, whether you realize it or not. Drawing little hearts on the tapes you make for her, saying “I love you” on a card—do you really think I should not be hurt by this? <P>Conversations too personal<BR>Discussing work, music and other mutual interests are normal topics of conversation between friends. But your conversations, as with the cards and notes, are too personal for a friend of the opposite sex.<BR>Examples: She should not be discussing her past relationships with men, her preferences in men, her feelings about men and marriage with a married man. She has her women friends for that, discussing those things with you is inappropriate.<P>Inappropriate physical affection<BR>I was not honest about my feelings when you told me about the incident at work where you were walking with your arms around each other, which resulted in the relationship being questioned by a co-worker. You expressed your concern for her, but seemed unconcerned about my feelings. It hurt me a lot and I felt quite humiliated by it. When was the last time you put your arm around me when we were walking together? Showing her affection that you don’t show to me is deeply hurtful. <P>I have included some internet print-outs from other people who have experienced what we’re going through for you to read. Maybe this will help you understand why this relationship is inappropriate and dangerous.<P>I know that all this is tough to hear. It’s been the toughest thing for me in our 18 years together to have to say it. I love you and I am always here for you. You can talk to me about this and I promise to listen to your concerns and feelings. I will not beat you over the head with these issues if you are willing to make changes and the situation improves. Where we go from here is up to you. You need to decide where your priorities lie and act accordingly.

Dear gardner, I have only a second, but I hope you get lots of responses and go full force into the MB approach. You are where I was from August 99 to last summer. Just friends--I was being a "jealous wife"---I was imagining things---H "didn't have to report to me like I was his mother"--OW told me she "respected me" because I was "comfortable with" H being her mentor and friend. D-day for PA was Sept. 2000, H and I are headed for legal separation and possible D; A has been on/off, mostly on. I wish I had had SAA and the MB material long ago. You are fortunate enough to have it--please implement it to the best of your ability!! Very best of luck to you, octavia99

Gardner,<P>My understanding of plan A is that it is a time to identify what the BS did to contribute to the marriage current state. Then the BS is supposed to start the corrective behaviors, to fill their spouses needs as best as they can.<P>At the same time the BS is supposed to be negotiating with WS to implement no-contact and to follow the MB phylosophy.<P>Now, in order to do this you WS needs to know, beyond a shadow of a doubt what you are feeling and thinking. Being open and honest with your WS is not a love buster. Not tilling them is a love buster because it furthers the dishonesty going on in your relationship. Whether or not it is a love buster comes in into play in how you tell your spouse how you feel and how you react to what they tell you.<P>I think that your letter is very well done. Is it angry. Not really, it's states your view very clearly. And in that sense it is not a pretty, loving letter. Perhaps you can change the words just a little to soften it. I do think however that you should give it to you husband, even if in the current form. it tells exactly how you feel, why you feel that way and what you want.<P>On thing that may help is a counseling appointment with someone at MB. Perhaps they could tell you how to get this across to your husband. I feel very strongly that you have to tell him this. <P>Z<BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

zorweb: Perhaps you're right. I just don't know anymore. One minute I feel like giving him this letter, the next I think I can't possibly do this....it will hurt him too much. Maybe with a little editing it will be okay.

Dear G, <P>Please understand that the hurt has already been done. This is no secret to your H. He does know he has hurt you otherwise there would be no need for the secrecy. Both the OW & WS know you are being hurt. Either they don't care or are too much in the fog to stop themselves. <P>So you do need to give him the letter and let him know how you feel. If this is your honest feelings, then it is fair to let him feel that pain he has inflicted upon you. You must be prepared for some type of backlash. He may not react the way you want. Are you prepared for that? That is where your focus needs to be. Right now you need to concentrate on if he rejects you completely based on this info or even temporarily, can you handle it? <P>The answer to that question will help determine when you are ready to give him that letter. It is strong but if it is genuine then it should be presented. You are still in the plan A mode since you have not referred to separating and reducing contact. So this letter though strong will have a better impact if you don't water down your message. <P>You H is in denial. Watering down your message will assist him in the denial. Don't apologize for his fog headed decisions. Let him know how you truly feel with controlled emotions. Not stiff, just controlled. You can still cry and let him see you are hurt but be careful on the angry part. That was what was hard for me. You see, the OW really would like to blame you so she can keep the relationship with H going. Even though your H may not acknowledge this now, really that is where it is all heading. Eventually the OW will want to take your place in some fashion. She already has made her move. Your H is willing to spend more time with her than you and shared imtimate thoughts with her. EA to PA is just only a matter of time. Depending on how strong the EA is at the moment will affect his reaction. Just be prepared for the worst. Accept what comes out of his mouth as words spoken but don't make any life altering plans before you have a chance to analyze it with a sane mind and a calm heart. <P>Take Care, <BR>L.<BR>

gardner,<BR>This is the first post of yours I've read, and I don't know your whole story, although much of it can be gleaned from your letter. It is an excellent letter!!!<P>You are absolutely right about the inappropriateness of your H's relationship with this OW. He is going way outside the boundaries and I can certainly see why you are upset and feel threatened. <P>The letter is great because you tell him very clearly and in detail exactly what he's doing that hurts you, what you would like him to do (respect your feelings, include you in this relationship with this other woman, or end the relationship) and also you let him know how much you value your marriage and love your husband.<P>If you don't mind though, I will offer you a few suggestions to "tone it down" just a little. You don't want your H to get defensive when he reads the letter. So here come my comments, take 'em as you wish, just my opinion.<P>Where you say, "I understand what you're getting out of the relationship and why you don't want to give it up..." take out the phrase "It's a huge ego-booster." This may be exactly true, but this comment just makes you sound like you are jealously belittling his relationship with her. You want to sound like you DO understand why he enjoys it. Save the jealousy for later on.<P>Take out the phrase, "The way to a middle-aged man's heart is through his ego." Ouch. Sorry, but this is a major LB!!! You are basically suggesting that he's an ego-deprived and will do anything for attention from a woman. Take out the WHOLE sentence.<P>Take out the phrase "But it's okay for her to suck you dry for all her emotional needs at my expense." There again, this may be what's really happening, but you need to put it differently, something like, "I feel you are meeting her emotional needs at my expense. I feel like you are giving her parts of you that should be mine, and this hurts me."<P>My final suggestion is for something to add. You need to ask your H that all-important empathetic question: "How would you feel if the situation were reversed? What if I had this kind of closeness with another man and did not include you? How would you feel about it?"<P>Your ending to the letter is excellent. You re-state your position on how you feel about your marriage, you tell him exactly how you feel and you put the ball in his court to take action that will respect your feelings. It's a wonderful letter, don't hesitate to give it to him. It spells out how you feel better than you could probably say in conversation. Again, my suggestions are just that...suggestions. Food for thought. <P>Best of luck, let me know how it turns out!<P>Calla

Orchid: Your question about whether I can handle his reaction is right on the money. I don't trust myself yet in this regard. My feeling right now is that if this letter doesn't cut through the fog, then nothing will. If he still denies and doesn't "get it" after reading this....what then?<BR>Do I continue to suck it all up at the cost of my own dignity and self-respect for the sake of our marriage? I'm not sure about my feelings on this. And until I am sure, I hesitate. I do know that I love him. I do know that I want healing....for both of us. Guess I'm in a fog too. What a mess.

calla30: Good suggestions....thanks for the feedback.<P>In being honest with myself, I know there's a part of me that wants to hurt him for hurting me. This makes me feel ugly and empty inside. Am I being self-serving? Am I over-reacting? Am I letting him have it with both barrels just to make myself feel better? Should I acknowledge my own guilt in helping to create this situation?

RE: “Am I being self-serving”, “Am I over-reacting?”<P>No you are not being self serving or over-reacting. Your H’s relationship with this woman is out of line. No married man should be this close to another woman, period. <P><BR>RE: “In being honest with myself, I know there's a part of me that wants to hurt him for hurting me. This makes me feel ugly and empty inside?”<P>Of course you feel this way. He is hurting you and the OW is acting like you do not exist. How else would you feel? But it is best that you learn to control the ugly feelings. Remember, always come from love. You need to protect your own heart and dignity while you protect your marriage. If you have children you need to protect them too. The ugly feelings can only lead to bitterness. From experience I know how hard it is to get rid of that, but do. Instead love yourself and your husband. The rest will flow from that. And remember that tough love is loving. It is not mean and it does not come from ugliness or bitterness.<P>RE: “Am I letting him have it with both barrels just to make myself feel better? “<P>It does not sound like you are doing this. Especially not with Calla’s suggested edits. One of the good things about doing this in a letter is that it lets you tell him what you feel and where you stand without your having a chance to loose it.<P>RE: “Should I acknowledge my own guilt in helping to create this situation?”<P>Do you have the SAA book? In the plan B letter there is a very nice paragraph about this. I think it might be good to do that. So that your letter is not all about him. It also shows your culpability. But please remember that while you are half responsible for the current state of your marriage, your husband is totally responsible for his affair.<P>It is a very good letter. I encourage you to give it to your husband as it is from your heart and not hurtful with the edits. Yes, you cannot be sure how he will respond. Just brace yourself. The truth is always easier to deal with then our own imaginations.<P>Z<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

I really don't have anything to add gardner, except I wish I had found MB in February when all my hackles were up. I knew something was wrong between WS and OW, but I felt powerless and was much, much too trusting.<P>Good luck to you. I would also like to recommend <I>The Power of a Praying Wife </I>. It has helped me tremendously in focusing my prayer for H.<P><BR>Cali

Gardner,<BR>It's natural that you want to hurt your H since his actions have hurt you so much. But this is a time to recognize that hurting each other in retaliation isn't going to do anything to improve the state of your marriage.<P>However, you are NOT overreacting. The situation as you have explained it is a terrible danger to your marriage. Your H is giving attention, affection, conversation and recreational companionship that should be yours to another woman. This is not acceptable, and your feelings are very justified.<P>As for acknowledging your own "guilt," I would say that you should take an honest look at your relationship with your H to see what it may be missing or where it can be improved. Can you give your H some of what he's been getting (emotionally) from the OW? It sounds like he has a strong need for admiration. Do you tell him how much you appreciate and admire him for his talents, strengths and abilities? Make every effort you can to meet his emotional needs. If you haven't yet, take a look at the Emotional Needs Questionaire on the Marriagebuilders Basic Concepts area. This tool will let you figure out both your needs and your husbands.<P>But, don't feel like it's your fault that your H is paying so much attention to this OW. He has made the decision to allow this relationship to develop. If he loves you, when you give him the letter, he will understand how threatened you feel and make the changes to improve your marriage. You are not asking anything unacceptable.<P>calla<BR>

What a Blessing this place and all of you are.<P>I feel a little better about all this now. I've been dealing with this alone for over 6 months now.<BR>Unable to share my hurt and feelings with anyone accept the cat (how's that for wacked-out?)<P>I'm going to "de-Bust" my letter and give it to him tonight. If I wait, I'll chicken out again.<P>God Bless

God Bless you too and good luck. Keep us posted. We only want the best for you and your husband.<P>Z<P>------------------<BR>He loves not who does not show love.<BR>----William Shakespeare

Oy.<P>Gardner, I wish I'd been around the last few days, but I've been out of town. I disagree with some of the others about your letter. I found it to be full of the kind of LBs that are bound to make an H in your situation even MORE defensive.<P>I wish, wish, wish I'd had a chance to edit this for you before you gave it to him. Yes, it's strong, but it's TOO strong -- and angry. If your H is like mine, your anger just makes him angry -- and defensive.<P>I know it's kind of late, but maybe these comments might help someone else.<P>Here goes:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know you think the whole idea of this friendship being inappropriate is wrong. You can’t see this the way I do....from the outside looking in. My instincts and feelings should not be simply shrugged-off.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Accusations. You don't know what he thinks. Yes, in this case you do, but this sounds controlling (much of the letter sounds controlling, IMHO). I would reword this passage as follows:<P>"I do not have a sense that you see this relationship as being inappropriate and wrong. However, I am looking it at from a different perspective -- that of a spouse seeing her husband with what I believe is an overly intimate friendship with another woman. So far, it seems that you have not been concerned with my feelings about this."<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This situation should be a wake-up call. Our marriage is like our garden—it must be cared for in order to thrive. Remember me saying that we need to worry about us for a change? We cannot ignore the things that are hurting us. I want to be able to believe in you and your commitment to our life together.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The reason the letter I sent to my H worked for me was because I phrased it in a tone that acknowledged IN SO MANY WORDS that I was not completely blameless for his need to seek companionship elsewhere. I know it galls you to acknowledge this to him, but this concession goes a long way towards winning the war. I'll bet 10 bucks that your H still thinks you have a ducky marriage.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I understand what you’re getting out of this friendship, what created it and why you don’t want to give it up—It’s a huge ego-booster for you. Here’s this woman who’s “a really nice person” confiding her problems to you, accepting your help, advice and attention. Result—you’re her hero. You feel the need to convince her that men are okay by your attention towards her. You succeed. She tells you what a great guy you are; everything is always pleasant, always affirming, always entertaining. Unlike the daily concerns and responsibilities of making a life together in marriage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yikes. Patronizing and condescending. Bad tone to take. Sure, it's true. Every last word of it. It's also right off these boards, from posts addressed to the partner NOT in the fog. Heck, if my H wrote me this, I'd be ticked off. This makes you sound as if you think you're all-knowledgeable. You cannot make him see this by spouting MB-speak to the unconverted. You have to SHOW HIM BY DOING THESE THINGS YOURSELF.<P>In Susan Page's book, HOW ONE OF YOU CAN BRING BOTH OF YOU TOGETHER, the main premise is that every relationship is a series of actions and reactions. If your actions change, the other person's reactions must change, and so the relationship changes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The way to a middle-aged man’s heart is through his ego—and she’s been feeding yours with a shovel. And now you don’t want the good feelings this relationship gives you to be taken away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What a put-down. First of all, you're competing with a woman who he says makes him feel like a kid again, and you call him "middle-aged." Not a good move. Again, yes, it's all true, but this still sounds patronizing.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You defend her and think I’m just being silly “She would never be involved with a married man” — I hate to break it to you, but she already is.<P>Again, assuming his thoughts. I'm sure you're correct, but people don't like to be told what they're thinking. I would have gotten rid of the first sentence.<P>[quote]“She wouldn’t even date until her divorce was final” — How noble. But it’s okay for her to suck you dry for all her emotional needs at my expense. Your a safe and non-threatening married guy who’s still in love with his wife. How perfectly harmless. No risks for her. You two can have a swell time stroking each other’s egos while blindly putting me through emotional hell.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Angry outburst. 'nuff said.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The bottom-line is, this relationship is inappropriate and steps need to be taken or it will seriously damage our marriage.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Threats. Damage how? Men are emotional lunkheads. (Sorry, guys). You have to spell it out.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Can you continue your friendship with her and also respect my feelings and our marriage? I don’t think that at this point that’s possible. To a great degree, the damage has already been done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This requires very careful reading in order to not give the reader (H) the impression that "no matter what you do, the damage is done." If he thinks this, why shouldn't he continue, and perhaps escalate the relationship?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I need assurance from you that you are willing to make changes in order to respect my feelings. You need to understand what is at risk here and just how deeply this situation troubles me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Giving orders to a grown man. "You have to..." "You need to..." What about what YOU have to do? In his mind, he's just having a perfectly innocuous friendship with a nice, soft, pliant woman, and he's got this tyrant/killjoy at home saying "ya gotta" to everything.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Example: Making plans to see her and not telling me about it. You knew you were going to see her and take her the tape you made for her, but you never mentioned it. Would you have gone to see her if I had been with you? I think the answer to that is no. You would have returned the next day to see her alone. Why is seeing her alone important if this is all perfectly innocent and she’s just a friend?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Examples are very important. (The lunkhead factor.) We had a BBQ at our house 2 summers ago, and had closed our cats up in the bedroom. My H's Dragon Lady had wanted to see them, so he was GOING TO TAKE HER TO OUR BEDROOM....ALONE....WHILE I WAS RIGHT THERE AT THIS PARTY. Of course I heard this exchange and went along with them. The next day I told him, "I know you didn't mean any harm by it, but it really didn't look good that you were going to take Dragon Lady upstairs to our bedroom. Think about how you would feel if I took [my co-worker who he felt threatened by] up to our bedroom alone with you standing right there." His reply: "You're right. I didn't even think about that. I'm sorry."<P>LUNKHEAD!!!!<P>The more concrete examples you can provide, the better.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Whether intentional or not, this relationship has been maintained as completely separate from us as a married couple—this is inappropriate.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would have just ended it at "married couple."<P>The other examples are good. Concrete, strong, and well-explained.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I love you and I am always here for you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The overall tone of this letter does not reflect this.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You can talk to me about this and I promise to listen to your concerns and feelings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Again, the tone of this letter is not conducive to him believing this.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I will not beat you over the head with these issues if you are willing to make changes and the situation improves. Where we go from here is up to you. You need to decide where your priorities lie and act accordingly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ultimatum, and placing yourself in the role of passive observer instead of active participant.<P>Gardner, it's no fun saying "I realize that I have responsibilities too," when every bone in your body is screaming that he's wrong. But being right is the booby prize. Do you want to be right, or do you want your marriage?<P>I hope you don't think I've been too hard on you. But these letters are hard to write, and I'm a good writer -- and I've done one that was highly effective.<P> <BR>

That's okay Dazed....you go right ahead and bust my chops. I'm here to learn how to make my marriage better, I'm half of the problem.<P>The letter in it's original form was a vent. And I completely agree with your observations about it. When I'm hurt or angry I have a tendency to go for the jugular....not an attractive part of my personality and one of the things I need to work on.<P>I did tone it down, take things out, and rewrote what I felt was too strong. It would have been even better with your suggestions (heavy sigh).<P>Part of the conversation with my H was letting him know how I've contributed to the problem. I should have spoken up about this situation a lot sooner, instead of letting it eat away at me and then dropping a bomb in his lap.<P>I think his top two emotional needs are admiration and recreational companionship. My Plan A includes filling those needs to the best of my ability. What I'm hearing from you is that all I've done is put him down, in other words, the opposite of what I should be doing.<P>Thanks Dazed, you've given me lots to think about.<P>